251 replies to this topic

[Ezazel]

Stop the stupid nerfs. If you got powned in an Atlas by AC40 from 500 meters away you really failed. First of all, it does half damage from that range, 20 a pop. Your Atlas should have frontal armor to take that several times before losing even side torso. You should be able to kill at least two xl engined Jagers in that time.

[Donnie Silveray]

AC/40 builds are, IMO, a rather troll build. Despite the heat penalty smacking them in the face, controlled shots can seriously ruin many folk's day. I don't like it, plus it makes surprise cresting very dangerous for the reciever.

Was piloting my Battlemaster and ran into a Jagermech with that build. It pretty much tore me to shreds as my 30 point ML alpha kind of limits me to two or three salvos before overheating.

Either way, there isn't much one can do with regards to AC/20 balancing. The AC20 is one of the heaviest weapons available, sucks up crit slots like a mother, and has a very low ammo per ton. In addition to it's short range and rate of fire, frankly there isn't much one can do with regards to attempt to tweak said weapon without breaking it further.

[OneEyed Jack]

the huanglong, on 20 October 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Pinpoint AC40 usages is not in the spirit of the battletech mechanics on which the game is based.

But pinpoint AC20 is.

With doubled armor/IS, an AC40 is the same as a single AC20 in TT.

You might want to re-consider your point.

[LoganMkv]

Have you ever seen ASRM36 assassincat?

[KAT Ayanami]

Lubalin, on 20 October 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

2 shots from an AC40 Jagermech at like 500m and my atlas has lost 2/3 of its weapons.

This is way imbalanced.

When I bring 1 ac20 on a mech, getting kills is insanely easy due to such accurate damage. Anything comparable has serious downsides. 2 ppcs generate a ton of heat. 2 LL are tough to get pinpoint accuracy. And that's just comparable to a single ac20.

2x ac20 is out of control. 40 damage, pinpoint accuracy, that works at such a long range is way too much. A mech shouldn't be able to fire 2 at once so often without overheating.

Ac20 needs a more drastic range limitation and a huge heat penalty when firing more than 1.

Oh, and L2P, kill at range, don't get close, etc. is true, but tactics don't fix poor balance. Cheers.

If you could get your fact straight, or if you would stop lying and exaggerating to get your point through, maybe people would listen to you.


I use a AC40 Jagger-DD and I do kill a lot with them. But I have to be a sneaky-***** to make it happen.
The moment a good pilot faces me 1 on 1 I am dead within seconds with this XL engine.

AC20 is fine. Its supposed to be one of the strongest weapons of them all! If anything, I would maybe I lower the Max Range. But I would really do that with all weapons in general.

Edited by KAT Ayanami, 20 October 2013 - 03:48 PM.

[the huanglong]

OneEyed Jack, on 20 October 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

But pinpoint AC20 is.

With doubled armor/IS, an AC40 is the same as a single AC20 in TT.

You might want to re-consider your point.

Except you couldn't aim it so easily in table top, the exact reason they doubled armour in the first place.

Edited by the huanglong, 20 October 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[WhoDidTheElf]

FIREBRAND

That's my AC/40 build. Take note of the armor on the legs, and rear of the mech. It's paper thin. An AC/40 would blow one of my legs off with a single hit, actually a Jenner with 6MLA's would as well. Yes the mechs hit pretty hard, but they are stupid easy to kill. If you see a boom jager walking around aim for him. Odds are his armor is paper thin, and running an XL engine. Get behind them as well, generally they have no armor.

[verybad]

the huanglong, on 20 October 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

They are easily countered if they are found early but that's not the issue. Things that can't do half the damage are just as easily countered.

Pinpoint AC40 usages is not in the spirit of the battletech mechanics on which the game is based. It's not fun for anyone but stat-padding self aggrandizing bigmouths. Those players should try real builds instead of hoping there is a lot of AS7-RS© in the enemy team each drop.

Ridiculous. It's a first person shooter, not a turn based board game. It's fun for me, and i don't even run that build, but I like to fight them., My only Jagermech is pretty much a stock one with AC2s and AC-5s that I use for support.

Optimizing builds iIS in the spirit of battletech (where custom builds are often optimized) and it's CERTAINLY in the spirit of mechwarrior, where all previous versions have had a huge part based on fooling around with your build...because it IS fun.

I like to use odd builds, often not optimized, but I'm certainly not going to say what I enjoy is what everyone else must enjoy.

I see Jager40s fairly often, but they're not so common that I would say they're OP. They're dangerous, but they're also fragile. A flawed canbuster is not something I think is a problem for the game.

[Kitane]

Did the Atlas had Gauss rifle?

I can imagine dual AC20 build that could get to the structure with two shots. A crit during second salvo could detonate the Gauss Rifle for additional 20 points of damage and x additional points of damage transfered from the damage caused to a component to the structure.

Still a long shot, but close enough to be possible. Though it is just as likely there were three salvos. I've been hit by boom jagers without ever seeing the shots being fired and without any impact effect.

As a medium pilot I absolutely hate them and fear them. They can kill me or cripple me with two easy shots and most medium mechs are not agile enough to get out and they lack enough pinpoint firepower to take out the side torso with 2-3 alphas. Plink, plink, dead. Nothing in the game comes close to the certainty of imminent doom for my mediums. I would gladly wrestle with any assault mech than face a single boom jager.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

AC40s are still a massive problem for mediums or hell, anything with less than 60 armor.

Edited by lockwoodx, 20 October 2013 - 06:19 PM.

[FupDup]

lockwoodx, on 20 October 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

AC40 is a massive problem for mediums with 40-50 armor. Weight limits should fix this, or the game will continue to bleed active players.

Actually I think that weight limits would be a massive buff to the Jagerbomb build. Basically, the Jagerbomb's primary weakness of having easily-hit side torsos is best exploitable by enemy heavies and assaults that can pack a whole lot of firepower. With tonnage limits, most of the Jagerbomb's enemies will be of the medium and/or light classes, which means a lot less dakka will be fired their way and thus their sides won't blow out as fast. The Jagerbomb's damage output is also a lot more apparent against mediums and lights, who can't really withstand it like a heavy or assault mech can.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

FupDup, on 20 October 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

Actually I think that weight limits would be a massive buff to the Jagerbomb build. Basically, the Jagerbomb's primary weakness of having easily-hit side torsos is best exploitable by enemy heavies and assaults that can pack a whole lot of firepower. With tonnage limits, most of the Jagerbomb's enemies will be of the medium and/or light classes, which means a lot less dakka will be fired their way and thus their sides won't blow out as fast. The Jagerbomb's damage output is also a lot more apparent against mediums and lights, who can't really withstand it like a heavy or assault mech can.

With the way the maps keep shrinking/adjusting to force brawling, Ac40 mechs are on the rise. The only thing an Ac40 has to fear is the poor aim of who's piloting it. Literally every shot that lands counts, and when at optimal range, aren't just crippling, but game ending to the target. I know... because out of my stable of medium and light mechs, I only own one heavy and zero assaults, and you get one guess which heavy I own and why.

[FupDup]

lockwoodx, on 20 October 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

With the way the maps keep shrinking/adjusting to force brawling, Ac40 mechs are on the rise. The only thing an Ac40 has to fear is the poor aim of who's piloting it. Literally every shot that lands counts, and when at optimal range, aren't just crippling, but game ending to the target. I know... because out of my stable of medium and light mechs, I only own one heavy and zero assaults, and you get one guess which heavy I own and why.

Like I said above, tonnage limits won't actually address this. This is a convergence problem (which we already know that the devs are not going to change).

[A banana in the tailpipe]

FupDup, on 20 October 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Like I said above, tonnage limits won't actually address this. This is a convergence problem (which we already know that the devs are not going to change).

Yes and no. It's an armor problem imo. AC40 is designed to ignore armor. They are pawns on the chess board with one goal in mind, and the ability to remove one piece in their way if neccessary be they queens or other pawns. Additional issues arise when they're given decent speed by XLs and enough ammo to mow down multiple players.

[FupDup]

lockwoodx, on 20 October 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Yes and no. It's an armor problem imo. AC40 is designed to ignore armor. They are pawns on the chess board with one goal in mind, and the ability to remove one piece in their way if neccessary be they queens or other pawns. Additional issues arise when they're given decent speed by XLs and enough ammo to mow down multiple players.

Convergence makes that armor a lot easier to go through.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

FupDup, on 20 October 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

Convergence makes that armor a lot easier to go through.

So does pitting squads of huge mechs vs squads of smaller mechs. If this game is going to be based around small scale FPS deathmatch, then players can't be allowed to start with quad damage without expecting some backlash.

[FupDup]

lockwoodx, on 20 October 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

So does pitting squads of huge mechs vs squads of smaller mechs. If this game is going to be based around small scale FPS deathmatch, then players can't be allowed to start with quad damage without expecting some backlash.

Fixing the matchmaker to better match the weights of each team would improve the game's quality overall, but this specific issue of pinpoint damage tearing up mediums would still persist.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

FupDup, on 20 October 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Fixing the matchmaker to better match the weights of each team would improve the game's quality overall, but this specific issue of pinpoint damage tearing up mediums would still persist.

Only if they allowed heavies to mingle with lighter mechs. Personally, when weight limits begin if PGI gives me the option to play in Medium or less weight class matches I'll never participate in a heavy+ match ever again due to how broken the mechanics are and my love for piloting medium mechs.

[FupDup]

lockwoodx, on 20 October 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Only if they allowed heavies to mingle with lighter mechs. Personally, when weight limits begin if PGI gives me the option to play in Medium or less weight class matches I'll never participate in a heavy+ match ever again due to how broken the mechanics are and my love for piloting medium mechs.

In the end this would boil down to how the weight matching actually works. Most likely, taking a medium mech would probably just result in the enemy team getting a medium mech of equal tonnage. I would *suspect* that each class would still be allowed to intermingle as long as they don't go past the team's weight limit. Specific class-only matches are something that my crystal ball don't see in the future although it could be pretty funny to see 12v12 Locusts or whatever.

Edited by FupDup, 20 October 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[Argann]

the huanglong, on 20 October 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

They are easily countered if they are found early but that's not the issue. Things that can't do half the damage are just as easily countered.

Pinpoint AC40 usages is not in the spirit of the battletech mechanics on which the game is based. It's not fun for anyone but stat-padding self aggrandizing bigmouths. Those players should try real builds instead of hoping there is a lot of AS7-RS© in the enemy team each drop.

What do you mean by ``Real builds:, could it be that some people have a different version of fun then you have?