440 replies to this topic

[Krivvan]

Devilsfury, on 23 October 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

It really doesnt matter how much evidence you have, how many videos, how many hundreds of people that KNOW that Spiders have extremely bugged hit registration, Spider pilots want their elite mode. I can say, after 7,000 matches, you will almost always see a Spider as the last mech standing in probably 70%+ of the matches.

And yet all those Spider pilots switch to Jenners when they actually want to win games. Curious.

[Shredhead]

And another idiotic try to defend that broken POS. But clearly, if my crosshairs turn red during a whole firing sequence of four medium lasers, and that little ****** doesn't even change colors on the paperdoll, that's clearly my fault because of my "third-world internet connection", my shoddy skills and the l33t skillz of those awesome spider pilots. Sure.

[Krivvan]

Shredhead, on 24 October 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

And another idiotic try to defend that broken POS. But clearly, if my crosshairs turn red during a whole firing sequence of four medium lasers, and that little ****** doesn't even change colors on the paperdoll, that's clearly my fault because of my "third-world internet connection", my shoddy skills and the l33t skillz of those awesome spider pilots. Sure.

That means your client thinks it got a hit, but the server doesn't have a hit on its end. That could be an inconsistent connection on your end, the Spider's end, or any number of factors.

[stjobe]

Shredhead, on 24 October 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

And another idiotic try to defend that broken POS. But clearly, if my crosshairs turn red during a whole firing sequence of four medium lasers, and that little ****** doesn't even change colors on the paperdoll, that's clearly my fault because of my "third-world internet connection", my shoddy skills and the l33t skillz of those awesome spider pilots. Sure.

Nobody is denying there are hit registration issues - that would be rather silly, since the devs have acknowledged it on several occasions.

What people are trying to say is that it is not a Spider-specific problem, it affects all 'mechs.

The Spider may seem to be more affected by it because it is so tiny and fast so it's hard to hit at all, but really there's no evidence that the Spider is any more bugged than any other 'mech.

Edited by stjobe, 25 October 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[Mehlan]

Quote

I have a better idea why people are saying this is that they don't want to lose their Broken Spider "Crutches" and have to play on their own merit and skill

...as opposed to the 'skilled(cough)' 'sault jocks who come to the forum to whine when they meet an actual challenge to their abilities.

[Shredhead]

stjobe, on 25 October 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

Nobody is denying there are hit registration issues - that would be rather silly, since the devs have acknowledged it on several occasions.

What people are trying to say is that it is not a Spider-specific problem, it affects all 'mechs.

The Spider may seem to be more affected by it because it is so tiny and fast so it's hard to hit at all, but really there's no evidence that the Spider is any more bugged than any other 'mech.

Nope, this problem is only consistent with spiders! Maybe in 1 of 4 matches I get a problem with hit detection on anything other than a spider. Another interesting fact is; the further away the spider is, the better is hit registration. The "sweet spot" seems to be around 180 meters, beyond that most of my hits register convert to real damage on the paper doll.
To be clear, I am talking about exactly that, converting registered hits to damage. The crosshairs flashing red means a hit is registered server side. You can easily replicate that with an AC of your choice. Aim, fire, hit --> your crosshairs will flash red with a slight delay. Try it, if you don't believe me. The closer the spider is to you, the less damage will be converted.

[Tesunie]

Shredhead, on 27 October 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

Nope, this problem is only consistent with spiders! Maybe in 1 of 4 matches I get a problem with hit detection on anything other than a spider. Another interesting fact is; the further away the spider is, the better is hit registration. The "sweet spot" seems to be around 180 meters, beyond that most of my hits register convert to real damage on the paper doll.
To be clear, I am talking about exactly that, converting registered hits to damage. The crosshairs flashing red means a hit is registered server side. You can easily replicate that with an AC of your choice. Aim, fire, hit --> your crosshairs will flash red with a slight delay. Try it, if you don't believe me. The closer the spider is to you, the less damage will be converted.

Do recall and keep in mind the Spider's dimensions. Now, with that under consideration, if there was hit registration issues that would permit shots to slip through an object on occasion, don't you think the size of the Spider could/would make this worse and more apparent? What proof do you have that says this is specifically a Spider problem, and not just a problem across the board but is more often seen in the Spider because of it's smaller, thinner size?

I'm just saying that we can't tell what the "spider" problem is, if it even has one, till hit registration is fixed. Then we can see if the Spider itself has a specific problem and correct it then. Till then, it would lead to a similar problem with fixing PPCs before HSR came into the game. Recall that?

[aseth]

There was no reason for them to increase the max engine size of the Spider. Commando, maybe to 160kph, but it was a terrible idea to modify the Spider at the same time.

[Tesunie]

aseth, on 27 October 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

There was no reason for them to increase the max engine size of the Spider. Commando, maybe to 160kph, but it was a terrible idea to modify the Spider at the same time.

Actually, by lore and mech history and abilities, it made perfect sense. If anything, the Commando should not have gotten the upgrade, but the spider should have. Reason? The Spider is a known fast mech, a pest. The Commando is known as being a slower light, that packs a big punch. So, the Spider should be able to go faster than the Commando because of it's intended roles on the battlefield.

Now, the Spider going faster, with the poor hit reg, with the slimness of the spider... it's creating sort of the perfect storm. Once Hit Registration is fixed, I suspect that a lot of the "problems" one sees with the Spider will disappear into the aether. Either that or any remaining problems with the Spider can now be seen/detected and corrected. However, till the larger problem gets solved, we can't proceed with any specific problems, as we can't find nor determine them.

Wait till Hit Registration and HSR are fixed. Then retest the Spider (AKA: Play the game) and see where things land then. Any other decision at this time will be premature and will probably only cause more problems than fixes.

[Amsro]

aseth, on 27 October 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

There was no reason for them to increase the max engine size of the Spider. Commando, maybe to 160kph, but it was a terrible idea to modify the Spider at the same time.

The spider is still limited from its actual top speed. The main advantage the spider has is JJ and Insane speed, have you seen the hard points?

Hit Detection is random at best, and spiders are taking the brunt of the hate, when truly this happens to all mechs.

I've left Thousands of damage points all over the battlefield that hasn't been registered on all mech's in the game. HSR is the isuue.

[Corwin Vickers]

Shredhead, on 27 October 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

The crosshairs flashing red means a hit is registered server side. You can easily replicate that with an AC of your choice. Aim, fire, hit --> your crosshairs will flash red with a slight delay. Try it, if you don't believe me. The closer the spider is to you, the less damage will be converted.

Incorrect. You will notice that your crosshairs flashing is instantaneous. That is because it is client side.

The paperdoll is the server thus if you did no damage the server thought you did no damage. It's also why the paperdoll can be lagged.


As the crosshairs will always flash red when you see a hit on your screen how do you explain people claiming they saw their AC20 hit, flashing crosshairs and explosion and yet the person takes no damage?

Also the opposite is true. If you are leading your target and it flies right through the air in front of them frequently the server will register full damage even though you saw no explosion on your screen.

Edited by Corwin Vickers, 27 October 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[Shredhead]

Corwin Vickers, on 27 October 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

Incorrect. You will notice that your crosshairs flashing is instantaneous. That is because it is client side.

The paperdoll is the server thus if you did no damage the server thought you did no damage. It's also why the paperdoll can be lagged.


As the crosshairs will always flash red when you see a hit on your screen how do you explain people claiming they saw their AC20 hit, flashing crosshairs and explosion and yet the person takes no damage?

Also the opposite is true. If you are leading your target and it flies right through the air in front of them frequently the server will register full damage even though you saw no explosion on your screen.

Nope, the opposite is the case. A "hit" on your screen does not always lead to red crosshairs, but red crosshairs always lead to a flashing paperdoll. But though the paperdoll flashes, it doesn't always apply the damage. Take an AC10 hit for example, on the rear CT of a spider. I hit, crosshairs turn red, paperdoll flashes but does not change color. That's the problem, and it's only spiders where this happens regularly.
I don't know what your ping is, but a low ping can make it look like the crosshairs turning red instantaneously. Also people with lower pings don't have that much of a problem with damage registration. Spider pilots with higher pings amplify the problem.

[Corwin Vickers]

Then why do people with 500 ping see the cursor instantaneously? It would physically take 1 second for that information to get to them.

[Mycrus]

[focuspark]

Corwin Vickers, on 28 October 2013 - 02:09 AM, said:

Then why do people with 500 ping see the cursor instantaneously? It would physically take 1 second for that information to get to them.

PING is the round trip time. Don't double it.

Tesunie, on 27 October 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Actually, by lore and mech history and abilities, it made perfect sense. If anything, the Commando should not have gotten the upgrade, but the spider should have. Reason? The Spider is a known fast mech, a pest. The Commando is known as being a slower light, that packs a big punch. So, the Spider should be able to go faster than the Commando because of it's intended roles on the battlefield.

Now, the Spider going faster, with the poor hit reg, with the slimness of the spider... it's creating sort of the perfect storm. Once Hit Registration is fixed, I suspect that a lot of the "problems" one sees with the Spider will disappear into the aether. Either that or any remaining problems with the Spider can now be seen/detected and corrected. However, till the larger problem gets solved, we can't proceed with any specific problems, as we can't find nor determine them.

Wait till Hit Registration and HSR are fixed. Then retest the Spider (AKA: Play the game) and see where things land then. Any other decision at this time will be premature and will probably only cause more problems than fixes.

Ye of too much faith. Hit registration has been fixed. This is what we got, unless you have a dev post stating otherwise?

Shredhead, on 24 October 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

And another idiotic try to defend that broken POS. But clearly, if my crosshairs turn red during a whole firing sequence of four medium lasers, and that little ****** doesn't even change colors on the paperdoll, that's clearly my fault because of my "third-world internet connection", my shoddy skills and the l33t skillz of those awesome spider pilots. Sure.

Well... since cross colorization is handles server side that means hit detection didn't fail. It would imply a bug in the code which doesn't apply damage correctly.

Anyone ever notice that a Spider with armor is nearly impossible to hit but once the armor is off they melt like butter? I wonder if the bug isn't in the "damage armor" portion of the code.

Krivvan, on 24 October 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

Most of the light pilots here (and in general) pilot Jenners. Jenners are still considered superior to Spiders by quite a margin.

I pilot Spiders for fun. Who doesn't like jumping like Superman and running like the Flash? But when I see a Jenner I use that speed and agility to hide.

[Tesunie]

focuspark, on 28 October 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

Ye of too much faith. Hit registration has been fixed. This is what we got, unless you have a dev post stating otherwise?

Oh ye who can never read...

Command Chair post: http://mwomercs.com/...4-known-issues/

For your easy reading:

Thomas Dziegielewski said:

Projectile hit detection[IN PROGRESS]

CERES METALS AAlcadis Revised Underground Complex, B5
St.Ives
Friday October 4th 3050 22:47


BUG: We have finally reproduced and idenified an issue that has to do with our projectile hit detection. This causes some bullets to pass through targets on the server or in some cases pass a single component and hit front/rear instead. I estimate it happens about 1% overall and depends on several factors.

Thomas Dziegielewski said:

Hit Detection/Network Movement Code

We are rolling back some networking code fixes. This will address many of the hit box issues currently in the live environment. The rollback does not fix the problem entirely, and we are working hard on improving the overall experience vs performance. This is a long term engineering task and a top priority internally.

Hit Registry is still not fixed. It has been patched to make it better, but is not fixed. HSR is not fixed. It is working mostly, but there are issues in it.

All this has been stated already in this thread, or it was easily enough to find in the command chair.

Edited by Tesunie, 28 October 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Devilsfury, on 23 October 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

It really doesnt matter how much evidence you have, how many videos, how many hundreds of people that KNOW that Spiders have extremely bugged hit registration, Spider pilots want their elite mode. I can say, after 7,000 matches, you will almost always see a Spider as the last mech standing in probably 70%+ of the matches. We all know why. Either half of the hits dont register on it or when you do hit, it registers little to no damage. Yes, we know that hit registration is bad on several mechs and we have all seen it happen with various weapons. The Spider does stand out as the most buggy mech when it comes to the proper registration. Im am not saying they are unkilllable at all. I do it very frequently but most of my kills come from me always targeting their legs and having 3-5 streaks on any mech I run. The thing that makes me the most pissed off the most is that I hit one with duel 20s and one arm turns yellow. Ummmm, yeah.

The problem here is that spiders are the last mech left as often because they are not much of a threat as because they are hard to kill.

They are definitely harder to kill than any other light mech, but several have much better weapon loadaouts, and as others have stated the spider is inferior to a jenner for most competitive applications.

[kuangmk11]

Every time I read the title of this thread I hear it in this voice:

[NocturnalBeast]

http://mwomercs.com/...er/page__st__20


On page 2 PGI confirms that indestructible Spider hit boxes are a "beautiful find".

[Krivvan]

Ed Steele, on 28 October 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...er/page__st__20


On page 2 PGI confirms that indestructible Spider hit boxes are a "beautiful find".

The one small part of the torso, which has been replicated on other mechs, and from trying it out on the testing grounds doesn't happen anymore.