440 replies to this topic

[Clit Beastwood]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

So full of {Scrap} it's not even funny... Either HSR is malfed, or the hit boxes or malfed, or maybe there's a stealth nerf that most lights enjoy a at a minimum 50% damage reduction on all incoming damage, but I KNOW that Spiders are broken.

I've hit Spiders with 6 rounds of dual gauss before, and they've shrugged it off, yet ANY OTHER 'mech I can kill in 3 rounds.

You Spider pilots keep spewing that propaganda, MAYBE PGI will believe it and keep this craptastically broken 'mech as is and you can continue your exploitation of bad mechanics.

People knew the earth was flat, too.

Everyone - if the spider is so broken and easymode, please start posting some of your monster KDR screenshots.

[Purlana]

Fierostetz, on 06 November 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

People knew the earth was flat, too.

Everyone - if the spider is so broken and easymode, please start posting some of your monster KDR screenshots.

Compared to the locust and commando it certainly is easy mode

[Dimento Graven]

Purlana, on 06 November 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Compared to the locust and commando it certainly is easy mode

Yes, why is it that Ravens, Jenners, and Locusts are so much easier to kill? Heck, the Commando which has an extremely similar profile and silhouette is MUCH easier to kill than the Spider.

And as for the KDR as proof theory, don't be stupid. KDR isn't the measure by which you should determine if a 'mech is broken, it's whether or not when weapons hit it, it actually takes the appropriate damage.

In the case of the spider that's EXTREMELY questionable.

[Clit Beastwood]

Purlana, on 06 November 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Compared to the locust and commando it certainly is easy mode

Not really, it blows up real easy, at least for the last week or so. I'm putting out consistently higher damage in my Deaths Knell as of late (the new turbo speed is SO MUCH FUN!). Most of these thread responses are just confirmation bias. Remember everyone, an empty can rings louder than a full one. What I want is proof - not proof of the small hitbox hole in the belly button of the spider, but that it's such an easy mech to pilot. If someone's going to call it broken/easy/etc., back it up, or keep your mouth closed. Without proof, you have no credibility. Anyone who drove a spider back when they were instakilled by *everything* learned how to not get hit. It's not the fault of the SDR pilots that HSR causes each pilot to see different things on-screen. You see a hit on your flashy on screen graphics, whereas on the other end, the spider pilot sees a close call. I can say that my SDR gets 1-2 hit killed *when the hits connect*. The HSR lag has other intended consequences, i.e. I see a *clear* miss, and a second later I explode. Why? Because HSR decided that I was hit, despite me seeing the shot miss. It works both ways.

Sidebar - if you all are correct.. then I *really* wish that hit detection of friendly fire was broken too. FF seems to register JUST fine. Been killed by friendlies a lot recently, and I'm not convinced it's totally innocent.

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Heck, the Commando which has an extremely similar profile and silhouette is MUCH easier to kill than the Spider.

The Commando is much wider than the Spider with thicker legs and far larger arms.

[Clit Beastwood]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

Yes, why is it that Ravens, Jenners, and Locusts are so much easier to kill? Heck, the Commando which has an extremely similar profile and silhouette is MUCH easier to kill than the Spider.

And as for the KDR as proof theory, don't be stupid. KDR isn't the measure by which you should determine if a 'mech is broken, it's whether or not when weapons hit it, it actually takes the appropriate damage.

In the case of the spider that's EXTREMELY questionable.

I wasn't proposing the KDR be used as an example of determining if it's broken, I wanted someone to start posting their stats to prove that the mech is easymode. The locusts are easy to kill because they're supposed to be. The commandos are easy to kill if the pilot sucks. The ravens are easy to kill because sticklegs. The spider has a gimped weapons loadout, it's only perk is being a ninja, able to twist faster than danged near anything. Have you spectated a high-scoring spider pilot much? We're usually whipping around, or maneuvering to stay behind people. There was a time when the 5k's were facing down assaults with impunity, but it's *really* not that way at present. Over the last several patches the spiders gotten squishier and squishier - I think a lot of the people that flocked to the brokenish spiders *when they were broken* have moved on. Whats left is largely users that have been driving spiders *a long time*.








note: these threads entertain me, if they start dying I add kindling.

Edited by Fierostetz, 06 November 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Fierostetz, on 06 November 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Not really, it blows up real easy, at least for the last week or so. I'm putting out consistently higher damage in my Deaths Knell as of late (the new turbo speed is SO MUCH FUN!). Most of these thread responses are just confirmation bias. Remember everyone, an empty can rings louder than a full one. What I want is proof - not proof of the small hitbox hole in the belly button of the spider, but that it's such an easy mech to pilot. If someone's going to call it broken/easy/etc., back it up, or keep your mouth closed. Without proof, you have no credibility. Anyone who drove a spider back when they were instakilled by *everything* learned how to not get hit. It's not the fault of the SDR pilots that HSR causes each pilot to see different things on-screen. You see a hit on your flashy on screen graphics, whereas on the other end, the spider pilot sees a close call. I can say that my SDR gets 1-2 hit killed *when the hits connect*. The HSR lag has other intended consequences, i.e. I see a *clear* miss, and a second later I explode. Why? Because HSR decided that I was hit, despite me seeing the shot miss. It works both ways.

Sidebar - if you all are correct.. then I *really* wish that hit detection of friendly fire was broken too. FF seems to register JUST fine. Been killed by friendlies a lot recently, and I'm not convinced it's totally innocent.

Except that for ALL the other 'mechs out there, THE ONLY 'mech that the MAJORITY consistently agree that there's a problem with is the Spider.

Just like back in the days before HSR when EVERYONE KNEW that there was a problem with Ravens. Not many vids were published back then either, yet there was a problem.

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Just like back in the days before HSR when EVERYONE KNEW that there was a problem with Ravens. Not many vids were published back then either, yet there was a problem.

The Raven was "fixed" by giving it artificially large hitboxes. They "fixed" it by doing something that should not have been a "fix."

[Dimento Graven]

Krivvan, on 06 November 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

The Commando is much wider than the Spider with thicker legs and far larger arms.

The difference is minimal especially at range, yet, when I hit a Commando in the CT with 2 gauss and 2 ML's it blows up, while the Spider, MIGHT, turn orange. Now, granted, Spider does have a whopping 8 points more of CT armor, but, it should be CORE RED after that first hit, not outer ORANGE, yet more often than not, that's exactly what happens.

Krivvan, on 06 November 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

The Raven was "fixed" by giving it artificially large hitboxes. They "fixed" it by doing something that should not have been a "fix."

I could have sworn the fix was HSR and that PGI supposedly didn't touch the hit boxes. Maybe you're right on that one though.

[Krivvan]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Now, granted, Spider does have a whopping 8 points more of CT armor, but, it should be CORE RED after that first hit, not outer ORANGE, yet more often than not, that's exactly what happens.

You won't get a lot of your ML damage on the CT as much as spread it across the STs and CT. The Gauss rounds, should both actually hit the same spot, wouldn't be able to go through a typical Spider's front CT armour.

As people have mentioned, the thinness of the Spider can cause convergence issues where your shots are converging on the ground behind it rather than the Spider itself. This means that pinpoint damage doesn't happen and what was supposed to be a pinpoint alpha only actually has a few of the weapons actually hitting the Spider itself.

The Commando isn't thin. It is significant, no matter what range you are firing at. The Commando also doesn't have JJ.

Edited by Krivvan, 06 November 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[Clit Beastwood]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

The difference is minimal especially at range, yet, when I hit a Commando in the CT with 2 gauss and 2 ML's it blows up, while the Spider, MIGHT, turn orange. Now, granted, Spider does have a whopping 8 points more of CT armor, but, it should be CORE RED after that first hit, not outer ORANGE, yet more often than not, that's exactly what happens.

I could have sworn the fix was HSR and that PGI supposedly didn't touch the hit boxes. Maybe you're right on that one though.

Ah so the root issue is that you want light mechs to explode when you hit them. Have you put time into a spider to at least learn from the experience? Go drive one for a while, come back, and post your thoughts. Seriously. I know you'll likely continue to ignore the fact that there are issues with HSR in general, but you're talking about a weapon with a crazy high projectile speed, as well as one of the quickest twisting mechs in the game *with arms*... and known HSR issues. It's not a good combo - try running a pair of LBX and quad ML on a jager, and you'll be 1-2 shotting spiders without any issues. Your build is what is causing you problems - it's great against some mechs, not against others.

[Vodrin Thales]

Purlana, on 06 November 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Compared to the locust and commando it certainly is easy mode

Compared to the locust and commando piloting an Atlas without armor is easy mode.

[Clit Beastwood]

Krivvan, on 06 November 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

You won't get a lot of your ML damage on the CT as much as spread it across the STs and CT. The Gauss rounds, should both actually hit the same spot, wouldn't be able to go through a typical Spider's front CT armour.

As people have mentioned, the thinness of the Spider can cause convergence issues where your shots are converging on the ground behind it rather than the Spider itself. This means that pinpoint damage doesn't happen and what was supposed to be a pinpoint alpha only actually has a few of the weapons actually hitting the Spider itself.

The Commando isn't thin. It is significant, no matter what range you are firing at. The Commando also doesn't have JJ.

My old survival tactic with 4+ ppc stalkers was to run *directly at them*, watching the ppc's fly to either side of me. I believe there are articles out there discussing the speed of the spider vs. the rate of convergence. If I remember correctly, my real-world observations (and oh poop! tactic) coincided with the findings of said analysis. I've come to terms with the fact that anyone driving something larger than a light wants us to be one-shottable *no matter what*. I run a spider 90% of the time. I have a link to my twitch stream at the end of this post. Watch, and if you see me absorbing atlas levels of damage, feel free to call it out in the chatroom. I'll gladly make a highlight for later analysis.

Vodrin Thales, on 06 November 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Compared to the locust and commando piloting an Atlas without armor is easy mode.

It might be worth it for the lulz. If you want to drag your elo down, an armorless atlas with just TAGS and flamers would be the way to do it lol


ARTIST RENDERING OF AN ARMORLESS ATLAS

Edited by Fierostetz, 06 November 2013 - 11:50 AM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Fierostetz, on 06 November 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Ah so the root issue is that you want light mechs to explode when you hit them. Have you put time into a spider to at least learn from the experience? Go drive one for a while, come back, and post your thoughts. Seriously. I know you'll likely continue to ignore the fact that there are issues with HSR in general, but you're talking about a weapon with a crazy high projectile speed, as well as one of the quickest twisting mechs in the game *with arms*... and known HSR issues. It's not a good combo - try running a pair of LBX and quad ML on a jager, and you'll be 1-2 shotting spiders without any issues. Your build is what is causing you problems - it's great against some mechs, not against others.

I'm not sure that it is. I one shotted two spiders yesterday with a gauss +2 PPC setup (throwback build) hitting them in the rear side torso as they ran from me. Pinpoint weapons work fine on spiders if you aim well and have a stable pings on both firing mech and target.

[Voivode]

I agree it is well designed but there are hit registry errors associated with it. There is no mistaking when an AC20 round hits a spider dead center and the spider is already cored out in every torso section and it does not die or lose a torso (in the rare instance of a spider with a standard engine) that the shot just vanished. That's broken.

And yes...I pilot lights...I have two spiders. The antics I get up to in them because half the shots sent into me vanish, good for lulz, but broken.

Edited by Voivode, 06 November 2013 - 11:54 AM.

[Krivvan]

Vodrin Thales, on 06 November 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

I'm not sure that it is. I one shotted two spiders yesterday with a gauss +2 PPC setup (throwback build) hitting them in the rear side torso as they ran from me. Pinpoint weapons work fine on spiders if you aim well and have a stable pings on both firing mech and target.

I suspect that it may be an issue with the convergence server side in certain conditions such as unstable pings on either end that cause the problem along with the typical hit detection issues you see on any mech.

[PropagandaWar]

Roughneck45, on 21 October 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

I agree.

People miss their shots against them more than anything else, then whine about hit reg. Sure, the hit reg needs a lot of work, but the spider is just a difficult target to land shots on. It's really the only advantage it has.

Yeah the 3 rounds of ac 5s 2 meds and machine fire i hit a spider who "walked" towards my jager that barley oranged his armor were misses. LMAO. Even the devs say they are borqued soooo..... When I miss I Miss, but no light is as bugged as the spider.

[Clit Beastwood]

PropagandaWar, on 06 November 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Yeah the 3 rounds of ac 5s 2 meds and machine fire i hit a spider who "walked" towards my jager that barley oranged his armor were misses. LMAO. Even the devs say they are borqued soooo..... When I miss I Miss, but no light is as bugged as the spider.

You don't by any chance have video do you? I've started streaming every single match to a password protected twitch stream to back it up since FRAPS takes a big steamy poo if you forget to stop recording before clicking "exit match".

[Vodrin Thales]

Krivvan, on 06 November 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

I suspect that it may be an issue with the convergence server side in certain conditions such as unstable pings on either end that cause the problem along with the typical hit detection issues you see on any mech.

That seems plausible as Spiders are not the only mech I occasionally see shots not register with. I was fighting an Atlas yesterday with my Shadowhawk that has a 30 point pinpoint alpha. It took 8 CT hits to kill the Atlas, so obviously something was off.

[PropagandaWar]

Fierostetz, on 06 November 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

You don't by any chance have video do you? I've started streaming every single match to a password protected twitch stream to back it up since FRAPS takes a big steamy poo if you forget to stop recording before clicking "exit match".

I stopped doing vids when it started sucking my frames down so bad so. Don't know what caused it but its been bad lately. so Nope I dont on this one. Honesly i would have atributed it misses but it was so blatent. One time a while back I fired a guass and PPc into one of those ******** twice and nothing lol. Now to be fair I notice hit reg issues with all mechs. Its just the spiderz power armor and all the other lights seem to take way less punishment than the spider. The Op can say what he wants but the Devs and thousands of others are very aware that its not a "aim" issue lol.

One other thing I think that frustrates people is how much time you literally have to waste on them, no other mech is that painful. There's no real gain from killing the bugs, other than you have to chase them all around heaven and back for a few points and a kill. Yeah I hate spiderz can you tell.