440 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Tesunie, on 06 November 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

What about the other weapons that where fired from other mechs?

PS: Look again, closer. He only fires his AC10 when inside 90m. He fires his PPC once the Phrat is out to 141m...

Ok... We lookin' at the same video. As far as the PPC thing, you might be right, I'm trying to view this in full screen and of course YouTube shows it in lowest res possible, and a low res upload, de-res'd even further, yuck.

However, I'm looking at the paper doll in the upper right hand corner, and I'm seeing his 'mech take damage when the shots connect. There's only ONE shot with his AC20 (not AC10) that I see hit, but does not appear to register, although when I watch it, the screen 'freezes' for about a second, so maybe it did register and the 'flashing' that normally occurs was during that frozen second (does it freeze on your end at that point?). After that shot, he fires his PPC's, beyond 90m, both of which connect, and register damage.

The other mech, when its shots connect appear to cause damage from what I'm seeing on the paper doll. I am not certain what the other 'mechs are firing, but it mostly appears to be ML's, and SRMs, and again, when they connect, they do register on the paper doll in the upper right.

It's not that he's invulnerable, he's just taking a lot of damage, and quite frankly, a Cataphract has the capacity to take A LOT of damage, more so than a Spider, so other than the ONE AC/20 hit that may or may not have registered... Hard to say.

You see people, this is why I endeavor to ALWAYS upload 1080p video to YouTube, it'd be a HECK of a lot clearer to everyone with quality video. Low res **** is the worst for trying to troubleshoot events...

[Dimento Graven]

Tesunie, on 06 November 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Hvae you considered if you are preforming the test, to inform your team at least, if not everyone in the match? Then, if they report you, you can fall back to it being stated at the start of the match...

LOL, when you do that, you ensure more than ONE *** hat will come over and malf things up.

There's too many frickin' jokers in this game...

[Dimento Graven]

Fierostetz, on 06 November 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

1. You're pretty hung up on that dual gauss boat.

Oh and to answer this point (which really should be taken to a whole other thread), yeah I am hung up on that as the recent nerf to the gauss was at the behest of a very small, but very loud and whiney, minority of players who wanted to play stupidly and not have to suffer consequences of it, and PGI in their typical half-assed spineless manner knuckled under and gave us this travesty.

I was so pissed off I swore I'd get just as deadly with them as I was before, in spite of their best efforts, and wait for the mewling babies to call for another nerf.

That's why it's so important to me that things take the actual damage I deliver.

I acknowledge my own role as an unreasonable petulant ******* in this scenario, but I'm to old to change.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 06 November 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Tesunie]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Ok... We lookin' at the same video. As far as the PPC thing, you might be right, I'm trying to view this in full screen and of course YouTube shows it in lowest res possible, and a low res upload, de-res'd even further, yuck.

However, I'm looking at the paper doll in the upper right hand corner, and I'm seeing his 'mech take damage when the shots connect. There's only ONE shot with his AC20 (not AC10) that I see hit, but does not appear to register, although when I watch it, the screen 'freezes' for about a second, so maybe it did register and the 'flashing' that normally occurs was during that frozen second (does it freeze on your end at that point?). After that shot, he fires his PPC's, beyond 90m, both of which connect, and register damage.

The other mech, when its shots connect appear to cause damage from what I'm seeing on the paper doll. I am not certain what the other 'mechs are firing, but it mostly appears to be ML's, and SRMs, and again, when they connect, they do register on the paper doll in the upper right.

It's not that he's invulnerable, he's just taking a lot of damage, and quite frankly, a Cataphract has the capacity to take A LOT of damage, more so than a Spider, so other than the ONE AC/20 hit that may or may not have registered... Hard to say.

You see people, this is why I endeavor to ALWAYS upload 1080p video to YouTube, it'd be a HECK of a lot clearer to everyone with quality video. Low res **** is the worst for trying to troubleshoot events...

Sorry about the AC. But still, I see several hits on the Phrat, and I see the Phrat's paper doll flash, but no damage apply for 20 seconds. Then I start to see small amounts of damage start to apply. (During that 20 seconds, if any damage does apply, it is minimal at best, and is not accurate to taking either an AC20 round, several SRMs/Med lasers and/or 2 PPCs.) And yes, I see a slight freeze when the "it stops taking damage" starts to happen. Server hickup? Recording program hickup? Computer hickup? Don't know. I just see the Cataphrat taking several sources of damage and not taking it properly, if at all.

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

LOL, when you do that, you ensure more than ONE *** hat will come over and malf things up.

There's too many frickin' jokers in this game...

True. All too true. But then they at least can't report you, as you where clear on your intentions from the start...

[Dimento Graven]

Tesunie, on 06 November 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Sorry about the AC. But still, I see several hits on the Phrat, and I see the Phrat's paper doll flash, but no damage apply for 20 seconds. Then I start to see small amounts of damage start to apply. (During that 20 seconds, if any damage does apply, it is minimal at best, and is not accurate to taking either an AC20 round, several SRMs/Med lasers and/or 2 PPCs.) And yes, I see a slight freeze when the "it stops taking damage" starts to happen. Server hickup? Recording program hickup? Computer hickup? Don't know. I just see the Cataphrat taking several sources of damage and not taking it properly, if at all.

True. All too true. But then they at least can't report you, as you where clear on your intentions from the start...

Of course that brings up the next question: What was everyone's pings? I found out, quite by accident, how much your PING affects hit registration.

I was uploading one of my larger vids to YouTube, walked away for about 10 minutes, FORGOT that I was uploading the vid and logged into MWO and started playing. Needless to say when the match started and I started shooting at people, it took over 30 seconds before the damage registered, I didn't figure it out until after I'd died and brought up the game status and saw my ping of 700+, and was like, "Oh yeah, I'm uploading vids, aren't I?"

So if the person we were observing had a high ping (I don't see it that way, the paper doll, to me, looked like it was pretty consistently registering damage as the shots connected), that definitely can explain a delay in registration (HSR over a ping that high takes a while I guess).

In my video of the Spider surviving too many hits (because they WERE registering just not doing much), my ping was at worst 72 before the match started, and 74 after the match ended which is in the 'reasonably good average' range from what I've seen. (If you want I can post the entire vid, unaltered, so you can see "lobby" and "after match report" screens if you like.)

Edited by Dimento Graven, 06 November 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[Tesunie]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

Of course that brings up the next question: What was everyone's pings? I found out, quite by accident, how much your PING affects hit registration.

I was uploading one of my larger vids to YouTube, walked away for about 10 minutes, FORGOT that I was uploading the vid and logged into MWO and started playing. Needless to say when the match started and I started shooting at people, it took over 30 seconds before the damage registered, I didn't figure it out until after I'd died and brought up the game status and saw my ping of 700+, and was like, "Oh yeah, I'm uploading vids, aren't I?"

So if the person we were observing had a high ping (I don't see it that way, the paper doll, to me, looked like it was pretty consistently registering damage as the shots connected), that definitely can explain a delay in registration (HSR over a ping that high takes a while I guess).

In my video of the Spider surviving too many hits (because they WERE registering just not doing much), my ping was at worst 72 before the match started, and 74 after the match ended which is in the 'reasonably good average' range from what I've seen. (If you want I can post the entire vid, unaltered, so you can see "lobby" and "after match report" screens if you like.)

Not my vid, so I have no idea about anything from it besides what it shows.

I know my personal ping runs between 30-40. I never benefited from a Lag shield, and even in a Spider, I can and do die very quickly. That's why I feel it's HSR and Hit Reg that's mostly the problem with the Spider, if not the entire problem. However, there might still be problems with the Spider beyound HSR and Hit Reg. I just think we can't find that till the other "global" problems are fixed. Then if there is a problem with the spider, it can be found and corrected properly.

[Sable Dove]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

I found this looking for Spiders surviving too many direct gauss hits.

By my count there's close to 10 fairly solid LB10-X AC hits, along with around 7 fairly solid 2xML hits.

The Spider barely changes shade...

Spiders are broken.

Your count is a little... generous.
I count maybe 4-5 'good' LB10X hits, where half or more of the pellets appear to hit. Maybe 1 or 2 of those where almost all appear to have hit. Everything else was glancing, likely dealing 2-4 damage per shot, spread over multiple components.

Maybe 2-3 good hits with the lasers where they hit the target for half or more of their duration.

And even when you hit the Spider square-on, it's an LB10X; you're dealing 10 damage spread over 5-7 components with each shot, and considering most of the LB10X shots missed with most of their pellets, considerably less damage was actually dealt.


This also isn't taking into account that what you see and what the server sees are not the same thing, and with an LB10X, the most confirmation you have is that you hit with at least one pellet. And that's assuming that the reticle flashing is a reliable indication at all.


Furthermore, as demonstrated earlier in this thread (although the video was attempting to prove that there was a problem with the hitboxes), the paper doll often does not reflect accurately the damage taken. Some hits will not cause the paperdoll to update at all, and some seem to make it flash but the colour does not change. However, the Spider in the video still took the appropriate amount of damage (debatably; it's hard to say how many shots actually went into the destroyed ST and dealt reduced damage, but even if none did, the damage lost was minor).

[Clit Beastwood]

I can't reiterate enough, people - the HSR issues work both ways. Sometimes when driving a spider I 'splode with absolutely no indication of being hit. Now *that* is frustrating. I've been running around and all of a sudden my leg is gone. No hit indicator, no sound, just... leg gone now.

[Clit Beastwood]

Well - write my name down, if you see me in-match shoot me a message. If we're on opposite teams I don't mind taking a death for the sake of research.

[Dimento Graven]

Fierostetz, on 06 November 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

Well - write my name down, if you see me in-match shoot me a message. If we're on opposite teams I don't mind taking a death for the sake of research.

Roger that!

[Dimento Graven]

Sable Dove, on 06 November 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Your count is a little... generous.
I count maybe 4-5 'good' LB10X hits, where half or more of the pellets appear to hit. Maybe 1 or 2 of those where almost all appear to have hit. Everything else was glancing, likely dealing 2-4 damage per shot, spread over multiple components.

Maybe 2-3 good hits with the lasers where they hit the target for half or more of their duration.

And even when you hit the Spider square-on, it's an LB10X; you're dealing 10 damage spread over 5-7 components with each shot, and considering most of the LB10X shots missed with most of their pellets, considerably less damage was actually dealt.


This also isn't taking into account that what you see and what the server sees are not the same thing, and with an LB10X, the most confirmation you have is that you hit with at least one pellet. And that's assuming that the reticle flashing is a reliable indication at all.


Furthermore, as demonstrated earlier in this thread (although the video was attempting to prove that there was a problem with the hitboxes), the paper doll often does not reflect accurately the damage taken. Some hits will not cause the paperdoll to update at all, and some seem to make it flash but the colour does not change. However, the Spider in the video still took the appropriate amount of damage (debatably; it's hard to say how many shots actually went into the destroyed ST and dealt reduced damage, but even if none did, the damage lost was minor).

Except that even with your more 'conservative' count, I exceed what proponents of the 'good design' theory have qualified as a reasonable expectation of having killed a spider.

You can go back and read 'em, 'you can one or two shot them with twin LBX 10's', and here I hit one by your count 4 or 5 times, plus 2 or 3 with 2xML's, why wasn't that spider dead? He should have been. I was hitting him, he was even hit by others before I started wailing on him, yet the damage he takes is somehow next to nothing.

No, something unreasonable is happening with the spider, and again, if it's not SPECIFIC TO the spider, then there's another broken mechanic in the game that the spider is taking advantage of, more than ANY OTHER 'mech in the game, because we DO NOT see the "Cataphract/Hunchback/Stalker is broken threads", other than to complain these 'mechs die WAY TO EASILY, ESPECIALLY when compared to a spider.

There is a problem and whatever it is, it's making the spider look REALLY broken.

[Sable Dove]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

Except that even with your more 'conservative' count, I exceed what proponents of the 'good design' theory have qualified as a reasonable expectation of having killed a spider.

You can go back and read 'em, 'you can one or two shot them with twin LBX 10's', and here I hit one by your count 4 or 5 times, plus 2 or 3 with 2xML's, why wasn't that spider dead? He should have been. I was hitting him, he was even hit by others before I started wailing on him, yet the damage he takes is somehow next to nothing.

No, something unreasonable is happening with the spider, and again, if it's not SPECIFIC TO the spider, then there's another broken mechanic in the game that the spider is taking advantage of, more than ANY OTHER 'mech in the game, because we DO NOT see the "Cataphract/Hunchback/Stalker is broken threads", other than to complain these 'mechs die WAY TO EASILY, ESPECIALLY when compared to a spider.

There is a problem and whatever it is, it's making the spider look REALLY broken.

First, I never made that claim. In fact, that claim is asinine. Unless the Spider is already fairly damaged, you can't one-shot it with 4ML+2AC10 (barring lucky headshots), let alone LB10X. Unless you're basically touching the Spider, the LB10X is barely going to do anything.

Second, as I said, there were a few hits that appeared good. Getting an indication means that you hit with at least one pellet, but it's impossible to tell how many more actually hit. For all we know, the server saw every shot just barely graze the Spider. LB10X is obviously not going to be a good weapon to test hitboxes, as your indication of a hit means that it dealt somewhere between 1 and 10 damage, but there's no way to know how much.

Third, anecdotes about how Spiders are hard to kill are terribly unreliable. When I actually manage to hit the target, I've never had a problem with the Spider not taking damage. It's not an easy target to hit most of the time, but the hit detection for the Spider doesn't seem any worse than any other mech's. I have, on the other hand, found major issues with the game displaying damage to enemies.

[Dimento Graven]

Sable Dove, on 06 November 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

First, I never made that claim. In fact, that claim is asinine. Unless the Spider is already fairly damaged, you can't one-shot it with 4ML+2AC10 (barring lucky headshots), let alone LB10X. Unless you're basically touching the Spider, the LB10X is barely going to do anything.

I never said YOU said that, I'd said others who want to down play the spider's issues have said that. It's got, what, a maximum of 60 torso armor, that's if there's NOTHING put in the back? So with the damage it had already taken, the good hits, the hits, and the not so good hits, the spider SHOULD have been dead, but wasn't.

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Second, as I said, there were a few hits that appeared good. Getting an indication means that you hit with at least one pellet, but it's impossible to tell how many more actually hit. For all we know, the server saw every shot just barely graze the Spider. LB10X is obviously not going to be a good weapon to test hitboxes, as your indication of a hit means that it dealt somewhere between 1 and 10 damage, but there's no way to know how much.

Except for every other chassis I've ever fought THE ONLY chassis I have issues where I have to hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit, ad nauseum, before it dies is the spider, in most cases it's easier for me to kill a Stalker or Awesome than an spider, and that's a problem.

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Third, anecdotes about how Spiders are hard to kill are terribly unreliable. When I actually manage to hit the target, I've never had a problem with the Spider not taking damage. It's not an easy target to hit most of the time, but the hit detection for the Spider doesn't seem any worse than any other mech's. I have, on the other hand, found major issues with the game displaying damage to enemies.

Except, the MAJORITY of people in game have spider anecdotes, where they've personally had issues with shots not registering, or doing the expected damage, or were in a spider and knew they weren't taking the damage they should.

'Where there's smoke', and since we can provide the vid, whether you chose to admit that it shows a problem or not, is definitive. There's something that is artificially enhancing spider survivability beyond reasonable expectation.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 06 November 2013 - 06:37 PM.

[Tesunie]

Just played several matches with my AC20 Shadowhawk.

I was shooting at another Shadowhawk in the game. I hit, my reticle didn't even turn color. Maybe I missed. I hit again, this time it turns red and the paper doll flashes. No change in damage. I shoot and hit again, and it acts like I didn't hit. I died to this Shadowhawk shortly after. (I was going to die anyway, but it would have been nice to have caused some damage before I went.)

My Ping is an average of 30-40 from what I can tell, with spikes of up to maybe 70? Could it have been lag? Maybe. HSR? Maybe. Hit reg? Maybe. Was it "Spider"? No. That was clearly a Shadowhawk.

Been having more incidents like this tonight, and some are probably legitimate "missed shots", but not all of them. (Heck, I've been having a problem lately getting my AC20 to just shoot. Have had to hit the button several times to get it to shoot once tonight...)

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

There is a problem and whatever it is, it's making the spider look REALLY broken.

I think we are on the same page here. I can't tell what is Spider, and what is "whatever is effecting all other mechs in the game".

(Sorry, no video, as I don't think my computer could handle recording and playing at the same time.)

[Sable Dove]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

I never said YOU said that, I'd said others who want to down play the spider's issues have said that. It's got, what, a maximum of 60 torso armor, that's if there's NOTHING put in the back? So with the damage it had already taken, the good hits, the hits, and the not so good hits, the spider SHOULD have been dead, but wasn't.

Except for every other chassis I've ever fought THE ONLY chassis I have issues where I have to hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit and hit, ad nauseum, before it dies is the spider, in most cases it's easier for me to kill a Stalker or Awesome than an spider, and that's a problem.

Except, the MAJORITY of people in game have spider anecdotes, where they've personally had issues with shots not registering, or doing the expected damage, or were in a spider and knew they weren't taking the damage they should.

'Where there's smoke', and since we can provide the vid, whether you chose to admit that it shows a problem or not, is definitive. There's something that is artificially enhancing spider survivability beyond reasonable expectation.

1. It's an LB10X. A 'good' hit where every pellet hits is probably going to do 2-3 damage to the CT, if that. And when I said the good laser hits were more than half on target, I meant that they hit the Spider, not that they hit a specific location. Most laser shots in that video were half a second or less on the Spider, and generally spread over at least 3-4 components.

You hit the Spider, yeah. But you hit the entire Spider. The damage was spread over the entire mech.

2. Spiders are hard to hit, and considering what you consider to be a good hit, I doubt you're actually dealing anywhere near as much damage as you think. It's easy to keep a laser on a huge mech going less than 50 KPH, and it's hard to hit a tiny mech going 150 KPH. Yeah, assaults are going to die fast because it's easy to hit, and easy to hit a specific component, which can severely reduce the mech's effective armour. Small mechs, and especially the Spider, are very hard to hit in general, and even harder to hit specific components. Not a bug. That's difference in design.

3. "I can't kill Spiders. They must be broken." is not evidence that there is a legitimate problem, regardless of how many people say it. Especially when the Spider is one of the best-designed mechs in the game, one of the smallest, and one of the fastest. It's not surprising that it seems tough, since it doesn't have a crippling flaw like the other lights (aside from streaks completely destroying them).

Plus, you're forgetting that everyone on the forums is part of the vocal minority. Only PGI knows who the silent majority is, and what they think. Somehow.

[Dimento Graven]

Tesunie, on 06 November 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

(Sorry, no video, as I don't think my computer could handle recording and playing at the same time.)

If you've got an NVidia video card, GTX600 series or better, download the latest drivers and try out ShadowPlay (it's part of the GeForce Experience), it seems to be a really 'low weight' vid capture software that takes really good quality MP4.

It's definitely lighter on my system than FRAPs.

[Dimento Graven]

Sable Dove, on 06 November 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

1. It's an LB10X. A 'good' hit where every pellet hits is probably going to do 2-3 damage to the CT, if that. And when I said the good laser hits were more than half on target, I meant that they hit the Spider, not that they hit a specific location. Most laser shots in that video were half a second or less on the Spider, and generally spread over at least 3-4 components.

You hit the Spider, yeah. But you hit the entire Spider. The damage was spread over the entire mech.

Except the spider doesn't have that much armor, and by the end of the vid not much had even changed shade, yet if I'd been doing the same against a LOLcust, Raven, Commando, or any other 'mech, it'd have been dead LONG before I broke off with the spider.

Quote

2. Spiders are hard to hit, and considering what you consider to be a good hit, I doubt you're actually dealing anywhere near as much damage as you think. It's easy to keep a laser on a huge mech going less than 50 KPH, and it's hard to hit a tiny mech going 150 KPH. Yeah, assaults are going to die fast because it's easy to hit, and easy to hit a specific component, which can severely reduce the mech's effective armour. Small mechs, and especially the Spider, are very hard to hit in general, and even harder to hit specific components. Not a bug. That's difference in design.

Again, YMM is V'ing from MY experience. Any other small 'mech dies and dies quickly. ONLY THE SPIDER do I have to keep hitting it.

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3. "I can't kill Spiders. They must be broken." is not evidence that there is a legitimate problem, regardless of how many people say it. Especially when the Spider is one of the best-designed mechs in the game, one of the smallest, and one of the fastest. It's not surprising that it seems tough, since it doesn't have a crippling flaw like the other lights (aside from streaks completely destroying them).

Yeah well, it sure as **** worked for PGI taking out knock downs and f'ing up the gauss real good didn't it? "Knock downs make me die easy, it must be broken." "Gauss can kill me when I stupidly walk out in the open in a straight line ignoring cover, not bothering to change direction every once in a while, it must be broken."

Yeah, yeah, you can deny it all you want, you can be the Catholic Church of Spider and deny that SOB has a problem, like a SOL centric universe was denied, regardless, it's something that is an obvious issue to those who fight a LOT of different 'mechs, and who aren't Spider pilots.

You sound JUST LIKE the guys that were denying the issues with Ravens about a year ago too...

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Plus, you're forgetting that everyone on the forums is part of the vocal minority. Only PGI knows who the silent majority is, and what they think. Somehow.

No the people that frequent the forums can be broken into their little sub-groups, the 95% that know there's an issue affecting spiders, and the 5% who are trying to deny it.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 06 November 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

Dimento Graven, on 06 November 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Except the spider doesn't have that much armor, and by the end of the vid not much had even changed shade, yet if I'd been doing the same against a LOLcust, Raven, Commando, or any other 'mech, it'd have been dead LONG before I broke off with the spider.

Again, YMM is V'ing from MY experience. Any other small 'mech dies and dies quickly. ONLY THE SPIDER do I have to keep hitting it.

Yeah well, it sure as **** worked for PGI taking out knock downs and f'ing up the gauss real good didn't it? "Knock downs make me die easy, it must be broken." "Gauss can kill me when I stupidly walk out in the open in a straight line ignoring cover, not bothering to change direction every once in a while, it must be broken."

Yeah, yeah, you can deny it all you want, you can be the Catholic Church of Spider and deny that SOB has a problem, like a SOL centric universe was denied, regardless, it's something that is an obvious issue to those who fight a LOT of different 'mechs, and who aren't Spider pilots.

You sound JUST LIKE the guys that were denying the issues with Ravens about a year ago too...

No the people that frequent the forums can be broken into their little sub-groups, the 95% that know there's an issue affecting spiders, and the 5% who are trying to deny it.

It's more like, 5% who may or may not have seen an issue, 5% who don't think there is, and 90% that latch onto someone else complaining about spiders as opposed to admitting their ignoring of spiders got them killed. Watch the 7 videos that I posted. I'll be you find zero examples of failed damage aggregation, and many whom ignore me and got dead.

Edited by Fierostetz, 06 November 2013 - 08:18 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Fierostetz, on 06 November 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

It's more like, 5% who may or may not have seen an issue, 5% who don't think there is, and 90% that latch onto someone else complaining about spiders as opposed to admitting their ignoring of spiders got them killed. Watch the 7 videos that I posted. I'll be you find zero examples of failed damage aggregation, and many whom ignore me and got dead.

No one's saying it's IMPOSSIBLE to kill a spider, we're saying there's a problem with them that makes them UNREASONABLY difficult to kill, and yeah, it's not always a consistent problem. Sometimes I can take a spider out with one round of gauss fire. Why sometimes it's different when I shoot and kill one with one shot, as opposed to having to put 6 or more into one, I don't have a clue, but I know damn well that if I put 4 shots into a Catapult's ST or CT, it will be dead. On an Atlas, I know 5 rounds and he's dead. Stalker, between 4 and 5 depending on load out. Awesome, 4. Cataphract/Jager, 3 (unless they put a standard engine in). Ravens, Jenners, and Commandos, no more than 3. Cicada, if I can get the sweet spot, 2, but 3 tops.

Spiders, however, again, upwards of 8 rounds, and with dual gauss, even if only ONE hits each shot, that's still 120 armor, and there should be missing body parts and core red showing, not outer orange damage showing.

There is something making spiders unreasonably survivable.

Anyone I've talked to, who isn't a Spider pilot (and even some Spider pilots), agree that there is a problem and have their own stories of pouring endless amounts of damage into spiders.

Hell, up until just recently (and maybe even still) we had an demonstrable issue on the Training Grounds (you've seen the vids posted here, for sure) where spiders had holes that missiles and ballistics wouldn't register. Whether or not that's now fixed is debatable, but it definitely strong evidence of the potential for an issue in the live game.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 06 November 2013 - 08:46 PM.

[William Mountbank]

Yesterday I died in a 5D twice to one shots. First time was a Jester who caught me while I was transitioning from full reverse to forward, and despite me being at 100% health I died instantly. Second time was a Jag with twin Gauss and a PPC I had been sniping in the back, he caught me full CT and took me straight to red internals, but as I was running away to hide behind a different rock his second shot caught me and that was that. Both cases had no misses, no failed damage, and were on an almost stationary Spider.

But sure, you guys keep whining to PGI about it so that the next time you shoot a rock nearby a Spider, that Spider explodes. I still have a Raven that's got ECM, high arms and can do 3 times the damage a Spider can, but at least the real issue of totally nerfing MWO's second least effective mech has been sorted!

People like me stick up for the Spider because they're REASONABLY POSSIBLE to kill.