440 replies to this topic

[Void Angel]

Holy rational discourse, Batman! You guys better stop hijacking this complaint thread, or we'll get moderated!

[Clit Beastwood]

Void Angel, on 11 November 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Holy rational discourse, Batman! You guys better stop hijacking this complaint thread, or we'll get moderated!

true

Artillery and airstrikes are OP because lights can carry them! lights should only be allowed to carry ML or smaller and no explodey modules!

[Void Angel]

That's BETTER!

[Clit Beastwood]

Void Angel, on 12 November 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

That's BETTER!

I figured out what will really help these threads along. I'm working on a new signature!

[mikehunter82]

lockwoodx, on 20 October 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Personally I find spiders broken in the sense that damage spreads out across them so much you have to do twice the damage of their armor+internals to kill one. This is coming from a medium pilot who regularly stays at base to defend and has to deal with multiple spiders. I'll look at the end damage once the match is over and think... what the heck, I did over 370+ against just two spiders and only one of them died.

Broken mechs indeed.

Totally agree. I also got many games, in my sniper K2, when i got caught in the backfield by two spiders before i was able to shoot any other enemy, brawling those with 2x ERLL and 2xAC5. Mostly i die, when this happens, and i should 1vs2, but in some cases i also did around 300dmg just to only two spiders... And they just ran away, not even critted... Also seen many games, where spiders just run trough 5 or more mechs, leaving area almost untouched. In my opinion lights should work like in World of tanks - not being shot at, or being able to dodge fire means being alive, Getting alfa-striked from a Heavy mech should result in dead light... At least ppl would stop abusing lights to **** other pilots off...

[Tesunie]

mikehunter82, on 12 November 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Totally agree. I also got many games, in my sniper K2, when i got caught in the backfield by two spiders before i was able to shoot any other enemy, brawling those with 2x ERLL and 2xAC5. Mostly i die, when this happens, and i should 1vs2, but in some cases i also did around 300dmg just to only two spiders... And they just ran away, not even critted... Also seen many games, where spiders just run trough 5 or more mechs, leaving area almost untouched. In my opinion lights should work like in World of tanks - not being shot at, or being able to dodge fire means being alive, Getting alfa-striked from a Heavy mech should result in dead light... At least ppl would stop abusing lights to **** other pilots off...

And then if every light died from a heavy/assaults single alpha, no one would play lights...

Playing a light, dodging, being evasive, being unpredictable, and running every which way is not abusing a light. It's how they are suppose to be played.

[mikehunter82]

Tesunie, on 12 November 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

And then if every light died from a heavy/assaults single alpha, no one would play lights...

Playing a light, dodging, being evasive, being unpredictable, and running every which way is not abusing a light. It's how they are suppose to be played.

Didnt wanted to say make lights unplayable, just easier to kill, so light pilots have to start thinking more before going into the fray...

mikehunter82, on 12 November 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

Didnt wanted to say make lights unplayable, just easier to kill, so light pilots have to start thinking more before going into the fray...

I would also limit weapons lights could use... 4example 6ML jenners feel MUCH more dangerous than any medium...

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Tesunie, on 12 November 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

And then if every light died from a heavy/assaults single alpha, no one would play lights...

You just described why so few people play mediums.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

mikehunter82, on 12 November 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Didnt wanted to say make lights unplayable, just easier to kill, so light pilots have to start thinking more before going into the fray...

The problem is this game's reward system is built upon doing damage, not winning. The only incentive for players to make decent cbills is to "go into the fray" so players always gravitate towards the mechs that get the job done with the least hassle.

If this were a genuine old-school MMO, the spider would be the equivalent of chinese gold farmers who found a way to rush through matches untouched in order to earn the most cbills the fastest.

[Clit Beastwood]

mikehunter82, on 12 November 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Didnt wanted to say make lights unplayable, just easier to kill, so light pilots have to start thinking more before going into the fray...


I would also limit weapons lights could use... 4example 6ML jenners feel MUCH more dangerous than any medium...

It's supposed to be - think... cobra gunship. It's fairly small, carries a f*ckton of weapons, and tears {Scrap} up.

[Tesunie]

mikehunter82, on 12 November 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Didnt wanted to say make lights unplayable, just easier to kill, so light pilots have to start thinking more before going into the fray...


I would also limit weapons lights could use... 4example 6ML jenners feel MUCH more dangerous than any medium...

The good light pilots (that I know of) do think before rushing into the fray. They use terrain to their advantage. They hide their approach. Then spring up where least expected, strike, and then vanish. They will use their speed and size to their best advantage, and not just "charge into the enemies". They will cap in an attempt to distract, or run along an enemy's line to pull attention away from approaching teammates. They will get bases in Conquest to help the team win.

There is a lot of things that light mechs are good for, and not all of it is even combat related. My Spider use to be set up as a dedicated TAG/Spot mech. I would jump up into far off hidden places, hopefully behind enemy lines. Then, without doing any damage myself, just sit there, invisible to most people (who trust too much in Radar), and just TAG a mech. Watch the LRMs come in. Then, after he's done, TAG another mech, till discovered, if I ever am.

Anything that is done in the Spider, I tend to honestly be able to do with my Jenner, with about as much survivability. Maybe it's because my ping is more stable, so I don't get the "shield" as much as others. (When "Lag Shield" was around, I never got one and died really easy compared to other fast mechs.)

As far as weapons go... in Lore they have small mechs with large weapons. Hollander is a good example. It's a 35 ton mech with a Gauss Rifle. Hollander 2 was a 45 ton mech with a Gauss and a Med Laser, and then the Hollander 3 was a 40 ton mech with a Gauss and a Med Laser (as well). Other lights were known to hold PPCs. The Dasher, a clan 20 ton mech, was known to carry 5 ER Med Lasers. These are all mechs that "exist" in lore, stock configurations. So, why can't a Jenner have 6 med lasers then?Or 2 PPCs? Or 3 Large lasers? The balance between weapons, armor, speed and heat is what makes the difference between what weapons a mech can or can not take. (Like for example, I can't fit a Gauss Rifle into a Locust, and have ammo for it. That means the mech is too small/light for that weapon.)

6 ML Jenner, vs a Hunchback with 9(?) med lasers? Or a CIcada that also can get 6 med lasers as well (for 5 tons heavier). It's perfectly fine from as far as I can see...

[A banana in the tailpipe]

The problem is this game's reward system is built upon doing damage, not winning. The only incentive for players to make decent cbills is to "go into the fray" so players always gravitate towards the mechs that get the job done with the least hassle.

If this were a genuine old-school MMO, the spider would be the equivalent of chinese gold farmers who found a way to rush through matches untouched in order to earn the most cbills the fastest. Instead it's MWO's own core players exploiting the spider for ego/epeen while the community turns on itself because devs lack the technical prowess to fix the issue or purposely designed the spider to be the least hittable mech (offers the least surface area) in the game while the mech lab (another horrible broken aspect of this game) allows them to equip "big boy" weapons on their tiny invincible mech.

Edited by lockwoodx, 12 November 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

Tesunie, on 12 November 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Anything that is done in the Spider, I tend to honestly be able to do with my Jenner...

lol yeah - EXCEPT I forget that there are mech parts that hang around or over cover lol

[Void Angel]

Tesunie, on 12 November 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

The good light pilots (that I know of) do think before rushing into the fray. They use terrain to their advantage. They hide their approach. Then spring up where least expected, strike, and then vanish. They will use their speed and size to their best advantage, and not just "charge into the enemies". They will cap in an attempt to distract, or run along an enemy's line to pull attention away from approaching teammates. They will get bases in Conquest to help the team win.

Just so; they'll also know that because of weapon placement, torso movement ranges, and the like, most large 'mechs have a very hard time landing a solid hit on a light that's standing at their feet - something like an Atlas may not even be able to clearly see the light. So the light pilots who you see running through the enemy team are either taking calculated risks based on which enemies have fired recently, which way they're facing, how many friendlies are engaging them, etc, or else gambling on their speed combined with a lack of marksmanship in the enemy - or doing a little bit of both.

[Clit Beastwood]

Void Angel, on 12 November 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

Just so; they'll also know that because of weapon placement, torso movement ranges, and the like, most large 'mechs have a very hard time landing a solid hit on a light that's standing at their feet - something like an Atlas may not even be able to clearly see the light. So the light pilots who you see running through the enemy team are either taking calculated risks based on which enemies have fired recently, which way they're facing, how many friendlies are engaging them, etc, or else gambling on their speed combined with a lack of marksmanship in the enemy - or doing a little bit of both.

Most light pilots realize that shooting the diaper is *always* a ct hit. That alone makes an atlas, for example, a *really* quick take down.

[Tesunie]

lockwoodx, on 12 November 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

You just described why so few people play mediums.

True, but I find that medium mechs can do well enough, they just have less "mistake" room. The problem with medium mechs is that they are suppose to be cheap, easy to fix and maintain, and easy to make. Without R&R, Mediums can no longer function in that role, so they lost a little of the attraction of them there. However, never count a medium out, as they can preform many roles, depending upon how they are configured. They can hit like an Assault, move like a light or land somewhere in between.

This is a discussion for another thread and another time though... (for more detail at least).

lockwoodx, on 12 November 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

The problem is this game's reward system is built upon doing damage, not winning. The only incentive for players to make decent cbills is to "go into the fray" so players always gravitate towards the mechs that get the job done with the least hassle.

Winning does give you better rewards, such as salvage and a bigger base reward. Otherwise, yes. They seem to have mostly/completely combat damage dealing role rewards. A scout gains very little, and a spotter only gains marginally more than a scout. Everything is combat oriented, which places a lot of possible mech roles at a disadvantage.

[Clit Beastwood]

lockwoodx, on 12 November 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

You just described why so few people play mediums.

Some friends and I did a 4man - 3 YLW and 1 spider 5d. Our lance got 10 kills.

[Tesunie]

lockwoodx, on 12 November 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

purposely designed the spider to be the least hittable mech (offers the least surface area) in the game while the mech lab (another horrible broken aspect of this game) allows them to equip "big boy" weapons on their tiny invincible mech.

A Spider is suppose to be a small, thin mech. It's a 30 ton light mech... What else would you expect?

As for mechlab and putting "big boy" weapons on...

Jackle: Has a PPC in it. 30 tons.
Dasher: 5 Med Lasers. 20 tons.
Hollander: Gauss Rifle. 30 tons.
Spector: 1 large, 2 med lasers. 35 tons.
Urbanmech: AC10 base, one variant has an AC20. 30 tons.
Solitaire: Heavy Large Laser, 2 Heavy Med Lasers, 1 Heavy Small. 25 tons.

[Dimento Graven]

Recorded this today:



Something is broken, somewhere.

[Tesunie]

Dimento Graven, on 12 November 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Recorded this today:



Something is broken, somewhere.

Right arm destroyed= Damage to CT. Isn't that more of a penalty most times? (It isn't reduced either from what I know.)
Left arm destroyed= Damage to right torso. Something isn't right there. (Damage isn't reduced here either from my knowledge.)
"Random" convergence= Try to actually hit the target, instead of having your reticule just off target so your weapons are focused behind the mech. (One med laser did not hit target.) (After you destroyed the left torso, and showed the right side being destroyed, you suddenly had "proper convergence".)

Check this out with the Cicada too then. Last time I used it as target practice, it was having the arm damage transfer problem with that mech too. I'd destroy it's right arm, damage would apply fully (not reduced) to the CT. Left arm, damage would apply full to the right torso (and some damage to the left torso). This is, as far as I have experienced, still not a Spider problem only.

Hit detection, damage transfer is broken, somewhere. Not necessarily just the Spider.