49 replies to this topic

[Morderian]

yes but an Atlas in the Assualt class is not superior to a Victor in all cases even if it ios 20tons lighter and remeber the pilot is that that counts the most not the Machine and here we wont have difference from IS pilots to clan trueborn (or are you Breed for playing MWO^^)

[FupDup]

Morderian, on 21 October 2013 - 01:56 PM, said:

yes but an Atlas in the Assualt class is not superior to a Victor in all cases even if it ios 20tons lighter and remeber the pilot is that that counts the most not the Machine and here we wont have difference from IS pilots to clan trueborn (or are you Breed for playing MWO^^)

It's not about whether or not the Atlas really is a "top tier avatar" or not, it's about that fact that PGI believes it is. That's all that counts. That's their philosophy. It may or may not bleed over into Clan tech.

[Bhael Fire]

Morderian, on 21 October 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

well keeping the clantech only for clanners is a bad idea because most people will then play Clan for the simple reason of getting the hightech guns and churning out as much easymode as possible

mixtech is also no good idea because with our current mechlab you wont see any IS weponry on the field if you can put clan stuff in an Atlas (i mean honestly Atlas witrh Clan guns Clan XL and similar nope not a good idea)

Bhael Fire, on 21 October 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

1. Make Clantech only available to Clan factions, but allow each player to choose an IS faction and a Clan faction.
2. Then apply a longer cooldown on Clan mechs, so players will have to play with their IS mechs while their Clan mechs are on cooldown. I think match length, plus an additional 15 minutes after the match ends would be a sufficient cooldown for each Clan mech.
3. Only Clan mechs can equip clantech. No "mixtech." When players drop with clan mechs, they fight for their Clan faction.
4. Clantech and mechs can only be "purchased" with honor, which is earned by winning and following Zellbrigen, the clan code.
5. IS vs Clan battles will be asymmetrical (as per the spirit of the TT rules); 5 vs 12

In order to prevent players from simply choosing a Clan faction instead of an IS faction — because they will regardless if clantech isn't any better — they will need to limit the number of Clan matches that players can play per day. Allowing players to choose both an IS faction and a Clan faction encourages players to play for their IS faction while their Clan mechs are on cool down.

Morderian, on 21 October 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

5 vs12 also an bad idea because here the IS pilots are not massive inferior to Clan pilots (in case you bound Clantech to the clans it actually would be the oposit) also 12 Atlai will kill 5 daishi with ease for the simple reson that they will be simply swarmed and shot to pices by pinpoint weapons

Weight limits are being implemented. There will not be any team dropping with 12 Atlases, nor will there be a Clan team with 5 Daishi.

[Zyllos]

I don't see how saying "the Atlas is just a better Awesome" changes the future implementation of Clan tech.

But it does present an issue with core balancing problems.

[Alex Warden]

afaik Clantech for IS players will be achieved via Wolfs Dragoons Faction, which is unlocked by havin max. LP at all houses... i think that´s okay

[FupDup]

Zyllos, on 21 October 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

I don't see how saying "the Atlas is just a better Awesome" changes the future implementation of Clan tech.

But it does present an issue with core balancing problems.

Here is the more pertinent quote:

Quote

A: This is entirely subjective. It depends at which level you play at. From my 1 in hundreds of thousands of player view, I can roll into a match with a stock Mech and be very competitive, and get lots of enjoyment. I may not be able to compete for 1st place all the time, but I can usually place in the top 8 no sweat. Your skill and Elo rating will definitely drive the level of competitive play you will face, and therefore the requirement to bring a more efficient, upgraded `Mech to the match. This is working as intended, and plays nicely in with how a player’s skill and inventory evolve over time."

They don't mind the fact that players have to build stronger and stronger mechs to stay competitive as they progress through skill levels. In fact, they intend it to work that way.

[Dawnstealer]

Really, the Clans are so structured, you can't really have players play them. The Clans are so different from the IS that most people think they're aliens at first. They run mechs, sure, but they only fight one-on-one at a distance. Having several mechs focus-fire on a single mech is distasteful to them.

To play that in character, the player would have to be REAL dedicated to it, and I just don't see that happening. The only way you could really pull the Clans off right is to either have PGI employees play them, or have them run by (good) AI.

[Bhael Fire]

Dawnstealer, on 21 October 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

To play that in character, the player would have to be REAL dedicated to it, and I just don't see that happening. The only way you could really pull the Clans off right is to either have PGI employees play them, or have them run by (good) AI.

That's why I suggested that the only way to level your clan mech or "purchase" new clan mechs and clantech is by earning honor. And the only way to do that would be by following the Zellbrigen.

That is, each time you adhere to the code you'd get rewarded with honor.

For example, instead of earning c-bills, Clans earn Honor after the match. The rules of Zellbrigen (as interpreted for MWO) could be as follows:

1. Focus Fire Prohibited. Attacking an enemy that has been fired upon within the last 30 seconds by fellow Clan mates will incur a penalty of -25 Honor for each infraction.
2. Dueling; Clan players receive +75 Honor if they defeat an opponent without the help of their fellow Clan mates (i.e. no damage from other team mates).
3. Attacking from behind the enemy is prohibited; -25 Honor for each infraction.
4. Being defeated by an inferior mech is shameful; -50 Honor for being defeated by an enemy mech that is critically damaged or a lower weight class.
5. Winning the match brings honor to the Clan: +250 Honor for each surviving Clan member
6. Losing the match brings shame to the Clan; -75 Honor for the entire team

This would bring a considerable level of challenge for Clan players and encourage them to follow the code, otherwise they will not be able to level up their mechs or obtain new ones.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 21 October 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Dirkdaring]

I doubt clantech will be available - ever. Not possible to balance.

[Mangonel TwoSix]

I think a lot of hard core battle tech fans are going to be shocked regarding pgi's version of clans. I'd bet they have a major break with the lore. I don't think your going to see clan tech as a clear cut upgrade to IS weapons. We are going to see drastically increased heat or weight for that increased range.

Or potentially clan weapons will do more damage at the cost of range.

Whatever they do I don't think clan weapons will be superior in all aspects like in table top.

[Vassago Rain]

Dirkdaring, on 21 October 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

I doubt clantech will be available - ever. Not possible to balance.

They'd be crazy not to sell madcats and clan dubs to people. It's a license to print money. The clan babbies are still waiting for their time in the sun.

When they offer the clan founders grab deal, you'll know what I mean.

[topgun505]

Insufficient options.

Honestly considering how much trouble PGI has balancing IS weapons how can anyone possibly hope that they will be able to balance Clan weapons which without exception are lighter, harder hitting, more heat efficient than their IS counterparts?

I think introducing clans any time within 12 months or sooner will end up in disaster for this game.

[xMEPHISTOx]

With all the balancing issues that are present now w/out CT, it is hard to imagine how the game would balance with its introduction.

As for this question 'Should Clantech be available on the open market for CB?'

All mechs should be available for CBill purchase or this game would have to stop being FTP imo. However CT should rightfully be extremely high in expense as well as the CT equipment.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 21 October 2013 - 04:31 PM.

[topgun505]

Not only should it be expensive ... but repair and rearm costs should be brought back in either before the introduction of clan tech ... or at the same time as it. This way you not only have a steep up-front cost of obtaining the equipment ... but it will also be expensive to repair/replace it which can be used as a further balance vs IS equipment.

xMEPHISTOx, on 21 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

With all the balancing issues that are present now w/out CT, it is hard to imagine how the game would balance with its introduction.

As for this question 'Should Clantech be available on the open market for CB?'

All mechs should be available for CBill purchase or this game would have to stop being FTP imo. However CT should rightfully be extremely high in expense as well as the CT equipment.

Edited by topgun505, 21 October 2013 - 07:55 PM.

[xRatas]

Give them with a degree of seniority:
Only new accounts can have them, and then only first 100 games. It represents the zellbringen well, as they won't communicate with their team anyway. It also allows tech to be purely OP, to balance out the skill difference. You'll also generate millions of duplicate accounts, which looks good on marketing material.

Or another choice:
Only give them through tournament prizes, and every time you die in it, the killer gets your mech as salvage. So they basically rotate around players, until they end up to someone who just collect them(being too scared to use them). Then it's time to inject more mechs to game.

Last choice:
Keep them out from this game.

Edited by xRatas, 21 October 2013 - 08:09 PM.

[Green Mamba]

MechWarrior 4 was awesome! .Also Getting a Daishi(although expensive) should be as easy as ordering a Pizza.

Edited by Green Mamba, 21 October 2013 - 08:27 PM.

[Kazairl]

There does need to be some serious drawback to using a Timberwolf or Dire Wolf as an IS player or they will just become far too common.

[BUDFORCE]

Kunae, on 21 October 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Never

gonna

see

it.

Sigh, as much as I hope you are wrong, I fear you are right.

Making this entire thread kinda pointless.

[Mordin Ashe]

BUDFORCE, on 21 October 2013 - 09:59 PM, said:

Sigh, as much as I hope you are wrong, I fear you are right.

Making this entire thread kinda pointless.

I suppose they are delaying the clans exactly because they need to solve this availiability/power/cost/whatever issues. Chances are there may not be any straightforward way of implementing the clans, you need to check a lot of varians and proposals, which requires a substantial ammount of time. Then you have to test it to really find out the long term impact specific variants have on the game. Even though I would love the clans to come tomorrow I just know that won't happen, because to make them at least somehow beneficial and not game-breaking requires a lot of time, and I am glad PGI takes that time.

[Cirran]

Make the clans PvE content only, or isolate the clan virus to their own server, then nuke it form orbit. Only way to be sure that you get all of them.