95 replies to this topic

[Bront]

stinkypuppy, on 21 October 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

i'm "kinda" a sniper. i stay behind my team and pound the enemy with guass rifles, large lasers, ppc's, LRMS, and longer range AC weapons.(like AC/2 or AC/5) however when i do this "sniping" i'm not super far behind my team and i'm usually like 300-600m away from my targets and when i'm behind my friendlies i basically mean i'm standing like 40m behind a assault mech slowly moving up with it providing precision fire support far enough behind that i'm kinda using the assault mech for cover however if the assault mech needs to reverse i get plenty of space to notice it and back up with him because i know the rage filled feeling if not being able to back up due to some ***** standing behind you.

That's more fire support than Sniping. Sniping I usually consider mechs that stay much further back, often at a higher position where they can punish mechs who wander out into the open. Snipers have their uses, but there are ways to accomplish similar tasks while being near your main force, and that usually makes you more useful.

[Kaijin]

Xmasterspy, on 21 October 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I have never seen a light with ERLL/ERPPC do anything BUT not do its job

You must be new.

[Blurry]

I shoot people.
I dont care if they are close or far away.
just dont miss is all I ask.

it is a pugs life after all.

[HlynkaCG]

1: The staggering number of assists and positive KDR racked up by my Jm-6S invalidates your "you're being a poor team-mate" thesis.

2: You seem to be misunderstanding what a Sniper actually does. Their purpose is two fold, the first is intelligence, observe enemy movements and report them to the team. Much easier to do as a sniper in a pug game because it's kind of hard to type and drive in light. The second is area denial. The threat of multiple pinpoint hits robs your opponent of the ability to move openly, and in doing so robs them of the initiative.


Killing an opponent in one shot is not nearly as important and forcing them to keep their heads down long enough for your own team to establish fire superiority. That said If you are going to snipe don't worry about kill shots so much as cutting the ears of catapults and the arms and legs off of everyone else. A weaponless mech is not a threat, likewise for an immobilized one, don't get greedy get the win.

Edited by HlynkaCG, 23 October 2013 - 01:28 PM.

[Xmasterspy]

After reading the reply's... I guess I never realized how effective and brutalizing 1 and 2 points of damage were. How so many people actually duck and cover and hide from someone that is shooting at them from MAX range. How someone that has been playing for 8 months can in no way say something to someone that has been playing for a year! That the 1 year pro uber guys know everything (even tho in the past 8 months or they have changed the way weapons work\damage like 10 times).

Anyhow... I have read most of the posts and I think I should have been more clear on my definition of "sniper" (as other had mentioned).

I have never said anything negative about someone shooting at or near OPTIMUM range (NOT MAX). I do not consider these people snipers, nor have I heard them call themselves "snipers". I have been talking about the guys that think they are playing COD and hide at 2000M away from the enemy and expect to be effective damage. Then they try to defend themselves by saying they are laying down suppress fire. They simply are not doing either.

Say what you will about how effective these people their cover\supperss fire is. I call BS that anyone that has played for any amount of time take these "snipers" as a real threat.

I am going to stop replying to this thread as now most of the comments are turning into insults, or just trying to troll.

[Zyratil]

ITT: people arguing about unrelated things

Max range ballistics is sub optimal
Max optimal range is where good "snipers" go

The "snipers" that Xmasterspy is complaining about are people who stay at suboptimal range and are largely ineffective.

[Autobot9000]

There's a lot of truth in the OP, but:

If you snipe shoot with a long range weapon setup, such as quadro AC2 from a long distance - say 700m - you can scare people off for good reason: Say youre shooting with said loadout another mech with some large lasers, that can defend itself for a few damage points dealt over said distance. That's a bad trade, hence why would the large laser mech take this punishment? I am just saying: You can actually lay down some waste over a distance, but you need very good aim, advanced zoom and take some guesses at your targets movement.

[Aegic]

wintersborn, on 21 October 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

I agree that shooting beyond your range is not smart but damage is damage even at long range until you close the gap.

QFT

Ill still send an AC/20 round off at someone over 500m out because even 8 damage is enough to ruin someones day.

[cyto]

This just seems to be a role based rant at bad players. I'm sure you can get the similar complaints about brawlers, or fire support. A pilot who doesn't know what he/she is doing will never be as good as a seasoned veteran. do you offer advice or abuse when chatting with your team? It's a learning curve for many new players and communication is key, but in the heat of battle when people are concentrating hard they may miss what is being chatted. I always try to offer advice particularly after I've been killed cos I can hop around the battle field and share a fresh perspective from cockpit tunnel vision.

[Redbeard the Elder]

I have a Raven 3L with ERPPC as my go-to mech. I commonly get 2-300 points of damage, though I've had a few stellar rounds topping out above 600. As a sniper. I have advanced zoom, not so that I can stay miles away, but so that I can select my target area. Headshots for the win.

Long story short, you can be an effective sniper in this game. You just have to know how to fire at range accurately from cover or on the run.

Some people are going to jack it up badly, but it's unfair to say that sniping (or sharp shooting, if you prefer) is not a valuable tactic in this game.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

For the class that mechs are in. It is entirely possible to work as a sniper. Using Gause, AC-2/5, ER PPC, ER LRG L. While highly unlikely, it is entirely possible to nail a head shot, especially with a Er PPC/Gause at "long" range.

A spider with an ER LRG/PPC or other light mechs can be quite effective if skilled enough and has LOS.

[Steel Claws]

Xmasterspy, on 21 October 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

I have never seen a light with ERLL/ERPPC do anything BUT not do its job. (not capping) Trying to run around and hit heavys at max range and doing 0 to 1 damage.. no help at all.

Sorry, if i see a guy has been working on enemy mech for some time and its about dead, I don't fire and take the kill. I am sure thats just me tho.

A lights job is NOT necessarily to cap. You clearly have little idea of what lights can accomplish when used correctly. Most good light pilots score better than many an assault mech driver.

I happen to be one of those people who run a light sniper that you think is irrelevant and I can tell you they are frequently the game changers on a map. The normal damage I see is over 400 with rounds as high as 1100. Believe what you want but I can tell you that you don't really know what you are talking about. Sure some people take shots outside of effective ranges but thats usually only till they can move closer. Then there is the whole annoyance factor. You can push someone out of a good spot by pecking at them - and have them turning in circles for 4 or 5 min trying to figure out where the shots are coming from. You can basically take one or more mechs out of the fight for extended periods.

Edited by Steel Claws, 29 October 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[JigglyMoobs]

I've personally had my behind eviscerated a few times by lights running ecm with a single er-ppc, using innovative hide-and-seek, hit-and-run tactics.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Steel Claws, on 29 October 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

A lights job is NOT necessarily to cap. You clearly have little idea of what lights can accomplish when used correctly. Most good light pilots score better than many an assault mech driver.

I happen to be one of those people who run a light sniper that you think is irrelevant and I can tell you they are frequently the game changers on a map. The normal damage I see is over 400 with rounds as high as 1100. Believe what you want but I can tell you that you don't really know what you are talking about. Sure some people take shots outside of effective ranges but thats usually only till they can move closer. Then there is the whole annoyance factor. You can push someone out of a good spot by pecking at them - and have them turning in circles for 4 or 5 min trying to figure out where the shots are coming from. You can basically take one or more mechs out of the fight for extended periods.

This. Well I don't post that high of numbers usually, but I have gotten close to 400 in a Locust!

@OP and his supporters:I don't head out to do 1 or 2 points, but that's better than 0 damage. If I am sniping, it's because you just presented yourself as a target of opportunity. Or I am trying to sucker you into chasing me back to my buddies. Or I see you while headed somewhere else and what the heck....worst case you don't notice me. Best case, I deal some damage and distract you.

[Nuke and Glow]

Xmasterspy, on 21 October 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

Just Stop... Really just stop. You're not a "sniper" and hurting your team trying to be one.

Lets define what a sniper is. Someone that shoots from a hidden spot to take out an enemy. They use a precision-rifle used to ensure more accurate placement of bullets at longer ranges.

Its hard to hide a 50+ ton Mech and Unfortunately you have to be extremely lucky and I mean really lucky (AKA no skill on your part at all) to actually take someone out (kill them) at any extended range in MWO. Why you may ask? MWO weapons have diminishing returns after their maximum range. The other mech would have to be already severely damaged in order for your shot to actually kill them. In that case you are just a player that is stealing someones kill because you did no damage in the first place.

When a real sniper shoots at long rage someone dies. When a MWO "sniper" shoots at long rage they do 1 damage. You may see on your screen a big hit animation when you fire and hit your opponent at 1500, in reality you have literately done next to no damage to that other mech.

You're hurting your team by trying to play something that is not practical in this game. It would be the same if someone was running around saying they are a medic by jumping in front of everyone's incoming shots.

Also, the whole "sniper fire helps keep enemy players from pushing forward" is a silly argument. While it may keep some new people from rushing or pushing forward, most players that have been around for awhile, know that the snipers shots are doing no damage and ignore it.

This is a nice post for more detail on weapon ranges and diminishing returns. http://mwomercs.com/...-weapon-ranges/

This also goes for poptarts trying to jump up and shoot someone at 2000m away. Stop please.

I couldn't disagree more. You can hide very easily when a target has their attention focused on another mech and espicially using lasers from behind. I've done some good sniping myself and learned alot from watching other people in game after I died. There has been plenty of games where a sniper has took highest damage count. I saw one build where a guy had 1 x gause, 1 x ac10 and 1 x er large laser and did over 800 damage and a majority of it from when I was watching was with the laser. Also sniping is a darn good way to stay alive because dead mechs sure don't help a team out.

[Grimnar]

Like a myriad of other words in the English language the term "sniper" takes on a slightly different contextual meaning in MWO. Generally it is used in place of Long Range Direct Fire support (LRDF) as it is simply easier to say when your stompy robit is shooting other stompy robits. Sniping is most certainly effective in comp MWO however it bears little resemblance to the modern sniper from that other game we call Real Life.

Having read the OP's replies I'm thinking his gripe is more with bad snipers than with snipers in general and who can blame him, that 65tons of wasted Jager pumping out endless AC2 slugs from 1900m is a little infuriating at times. However put that mech at even 1200m and he can be quite effective...well as effective as quad AC2 can be (ok, bad example).

As far as hiding a mech goes, ever seen a Stalker hill humping? You get to see his 2 arm mounted weapon points and a tiny sliver a cockpit, that is all...and that is whilst he is shooting you. Even something as inane as "hiding" has a subjective meaning for MWO.

P.S If you are sitting at 0 heat and you have energy weapons you are just as ineffective as the guy "hitting" with his PPC from 2km. At least he is providing a distraction Ideally you want to be riding your heat as high as possible for the entire game (unless dual gauss obviously), this includes planning for burst if you get jumped or put yourself in a bad situation. Almost every player I personally consider good that I have spectated will be using his heat at almost max range during quiet periods, nothing wrong with that at all as long as it doesn't impact your ability to lay down effective fire when the time comes.

Edited by Grimnar, 30 October 2013 - 10:10 PM.

[Training Instructor]

MWO has some sharpshooters, but it has zero snipers.

[Jay Z]

Grimnar is spot on (as usual if you see his aim). I pilot Stalkers a lot and run at high heat, a lot. I will fire my Large Lasers or PPCs even when at long range if I feel that I will not have an enemy close by in the next 10 seconds.

For example, I am peeking over a hill on alpine. There are enemies ~900m away but not many close. I will be constantly peaking and firing even if my ER LLs are not in optimal range. However, if I see enemies closing or threatening to flank, I will try to keep my heat hovering in the mid range so I can pump out multiple shots if someone rounds the corner. Anytime, my heat bottoms out, that is basically wasted "laser ammo".

[Lumpy Gash]

Jay Z, on 30 October 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

Grimnar is spot on (as usual if you see his aim). I pilot Stalkers a lot and run at high heat, a lot. I will fire my Large Lasers or PPCs even when at long range if I feel that I will not have an enemy close by in the next 10 seconds.

For example, I am peeking over a hill on alpine. There are enemies ~900m away but not many close. I will be constantly peaking and firing even if my ER LLs are not in optimal range. However, if I see enemies closing or threatening to flank, I will try to keep my heat hovering in the mid range so I can pump out multiple shots if someone rounds the corner. Anytime, my heat bottoms out, that is basically wasted "laser ammo".

Grimnar is honestly full of bad opinions, I'd just take what ever he says with a grain of salt.

[Grimnar]

Lumpy Gash, on 01 November 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Grimnar is honestly full of bad opinions, I'd just take what ever he says with a grain of salt.

I understand where you are coming from, I just don't agree.