64 replies to this topic

[Enzane]

While we are at it... could we make Machine Guns Effective against Missiles?

I mean that's all AMS is. a Machine gun. Let the Jagermechs use their MGs against incoming missles!

[King Arthur IV]

1 cbill and 1 exp for every missile shot down
that would be a fun way to keep track of how useful your ams was that round.

Edited by King Arthur IV, 26 October 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Deathlike]

Christof Romulus, on 26 October 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Well, that only goes to support my argument that you get rewards for performing an action - in this case you're jamming enemy ecm, not just having ECM on you.

Sure, but I think the teamplay aspects of just bringing it there cannot be understated. Sure AMS is primarily for saving your arse from missiles, but to say that there's no value in having AMS to stop volleys of missiles from hitting your teammates is sad. I'm not saying all missiles will hit the intended target (often, they do not), but the game should be able to predict which missiles would have hit the target had AMS not intervened, and that is worth rewarding the AMS user for.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 October 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Phoenix Branson]

+1

[kf envy]

i vote yes because the AMS with 2 tons ammo on my hunchbacks is not for me but to help out my team. about 60% of the time my AMS uses up all 2 tons of ammo defending an assault or heavy that i been fallowing because they are not running an AMS.

an i have been killed many of time from ammo explosion on the AMS ammo an small reward for the rish to help my team would be nice

also to have an on off button for AMS is something i really want to have when im moving in a group that does not need my AMS support

[van Uber]

FinsT, on 25 October 2013 - 01:46 AM, said:

Oh, sure, i understand you want wide array of rewards, it's quite obvious. What i was referring to - is not your wish nor my desire, but objective need to keep user interfaces and data structures not being excessively complex. This is well known principle in gamedev, which we may like or hate personally, - which doesn't change it. Last paragraph on this page sums this principle pretty well: "Complexity control can best be summarized as "keep it simple, stupid".". Sidenote: i still wonder if "stupid" refers to the content which is to be kept simple, - or to the reader of the advice. Or may be both? =)

Giving incentive to promote teamplay is not increasing complexity. The concept of "help your teammates and get rewarded" is not hard to grasp.

There are several good examples of this in the gaming industry, one that puts it to good use is the Battle Field series. Now you can dig up all sorts of complaints about BF, but dishing out rewards for teamplay is not one of them.

[Deathlike]

I had almost forgotten that carrying the AMS ammo is a risk, which unlike ECM/BAP (which requires the same tonnage and crits in total) doesn't have a chance to damage your mech.

[Gray 46rus]

Deathlike, on 28 October 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

I had almost forgotten that carrying the AMS ammo is a risk, which unlike ECM/BAP (which requires the same tonnage and crits in total) doesn't have a chance to damage your mech.

One more reason

[tucsonspeed6]

So how would it get calculated? There are times when my AMS shoots down missiles that will never hit anything. Why should I get cbills or exp when that happens? So if the game needs to consider missiles that are locked on and not bound toward a rock or a building ( which still doesn't account for all potential missile hits/misses ) then what about other weapon types? What if the potential trajectory of a ballistic shell or laser would hit a friendly if not for you getting in the way? Why not give a bonus for that too? It's technically a strategy as well. I could see a momma atlas sheltering her little locust babies from laser fire, so add that too. Now we've got the game calculating the possible future hits of all shots fired when it's already got HSR problems, but at least we are getting free exp and cbills for some ambiguous strategy that might be you actively protecting your teammates or might just be you being afk and getting lucky.

Long story short, I voted no, because you should not get any bonus that can be obtained without ever touching the controls.

[tucsonspeed6]

Another point: if it were added, certainly don't give it 1 exp per missile. That's way too much. A 1.5 ton system that doesn't require lining anything up in the crosshairs should not give you potentially 1000 exp. Thats outrageous. Make it .1 per missile and you might have something.

[Shrike ski]

small c-bill reward yes (couple of hundred in total), exp no, tag rewards can and are gained just because your laser happens to hit the target right at the time someone hits the fire button (lots of people have tag always on for just that reason) I have literally had my tag on a target for less than half a second and gotten rewards for it, ecm used to cover others on your team should provide a similar bonus (should be based on time) this would encourage the thicker in the head folks who are running around with ecm to stick near teammates (just because you can run faster than me does not mean you should)

[Commissar Aku]

I don't think you should need that incentive to use ams, I do think a single ams should do more.

[Corralis]

I think this is a great idea. If you were to get say 1XP and 10 C-Bills for each missile shot down that would have hit either yourself or a teammate, it would give players a real reason to fit AMS and stand in a group to make it more effective. +1 to this idea OP.

[Kazairl]

This is a bigger bag of worms than you may think. A countermeasure is usually its own reward. How would you apply bonuses to other counters? It would only be fair right?

It also leads to the questions of who is paying us, and why?

[Corralis]

Kazairl, on 03 November 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

This is a bigger bag of worms than you may think. A countermeasure is usually its own reward. How would you apply bonuses to other counters? It would only be fair right?

It also leads to the questions of who is paying us, and why?

The leader of your Merc Corp/House Unit is paying you for lessening the damage to his mech's. Simple. Also your right all countermeasures need to be rewarded, that was the whole idea behind the role warfare scheme.

If you have BAP and get close enough to an enemy with ECM that in turn allows your missile boats to lock and fire onto that mech then you should be rewarded. At the same time if your an ECM carrying mech and you get close to an LRM boat that stops him from locking onto your mech's then you should be rewarded. I'm not talking huge game breaking rewards here but just a little bonus to show that the game appreciates your actions and wants you to continue being a team player. PUG matches would be a lot more fun if your team actually has a reason to help each other out.

[Gray 46rus]

Corralis, on 04 November 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

If you have BAP and get close enough to an enemy with ECM that in turn allows your missile boats to lock and fire onto that mech then you should be rewarded.

You got spot reward.

[Sean von Steinike]

Maybe a one C-bill award for each missile shot down.

[RadiantVamp]

I really think that AMS doesn't need a reward one primary reason: people don't need any encouragement to use AMS right now

XPH Aku, on 03 November 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

I don't think you should need that incentive to use ams, I do think a single ams should do more.

That really hits it on the head as to why AMS is used so rampantly. Nearly every match I'm in, 2/3 of my team has AMS. My own stats for using the LRM 15 read that it has a 15% accuracy, which, for a homing weapon, is embarrassing. I accredit this not to clever pilots ducking behind cover, but AMS being on nearly every mech on the field.

[Gray 46rus]

Kastor1994, on 19 November 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

I really think that AMS doesn't need a reward one primary reason: people don't need any encouragement to use AMS right now

That really hits it on the head as to why AMS is used so rampantly. Nearly every match I'm in, 2/3 of my team has AMS. My own stats for using the LRM 15 read that it has a 15% accuracy, which, for a homing weapon, is embarrassing. I accredit this not to clever pilots ducking behind cover, but AMS being on nearly every mech on the field.

Before LRM speed buff, single AMS could intersept up to 5 LRMs. What is it's real effectiveness now - I don't even know, but I doubt it's higher then before.

Edited by Gray 46rus, 24 November 2013 - 02:19 PM.

[990Dreams]

Now of course, it would need to be a small reward (and maybe not like this:

Spoiler

AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP

AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP

AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP

AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP
AMS bonus 25 CB 5 XP

instead just the sum or that salvo) but yeah I think an AMS bonus would be good.