Big Weapons In Arms Or Torso?
#1
Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:52 AM
Can't have both
#2
Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:46 AM
What do you want to do with the weapons? Peeksnipe? High torso mounts are the only way to shoot safely from cover with no convergence issues, assuming you do not have Jager arms that is. Otherwise, arms provide greater range of motion and a greater cone of fire, but can suffer convergence issues.
#3
Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:05 AM
Pariah Devalis, on 22 October 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:
What do you want to do with the weapons? Peeksnipe? High torso mounts are the only way to shoot safely from cover with no convergence issues, assuming you do not have Jager arms that is. Otherwise, arms provide greater range of motion and a greater cone of fire, but can suffer convergence issues.
I don't care about me. I know how I like my weapon layouts.
I would like to know what the general public prefers. As in OP, I understand that arm mobility and peek snipe are more-or-less the two alternatives. If you have an opposing point of view, tell me!
Tell me, good people, if you could ONLY HAVE ONE OR THE OTHER, what is your reasoning on your weapon layouts. Be specific, or be generic, tell your story.
Edited by X3kutor, 22 October 2013 - 07:06 AM.
#4
Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:19 AM
#5
Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:21 AM
X3kutor, on 22 October 2013 - 04:52 AM, said:
Can't have both
If you are attacking from a distance or using missiles...torso. Arm weapons only if you have direct fire weapons and you have a mech with good arm mobility. Being able to move up and down is not enough...you need real arms, not pods like a Catapult or Stalker. I noticed a HUGE difference between my Highlander and my Jager on this. I was able to nail enemies on a steep decline on Alpine way easier with the highlander.
Torso mounts can be better. I am in LOVE with the energy mounts on my Battlemasters...they are up high and next to the cockpit, so basically anything I can see I can hit. Arm weapons are frustrating as hell as they are often blocked by terrain geometry.
#6
Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:38 AM
1. Preferably if Mount is High (e.g. Battlemaster)
2. You have a decent torso twist speed (combination of Engine & Chassis/variant)
3. If you favour peaking up over ridges/buildings etc to shoot
4. Your arm mount is way too low.
5. You want to "zombie" or you are afraid of losing your weapons rapidly
Arm Mount
1. You do not use armlock.
2. You are comfortable sidestepping in and out of cover to shoot exposing only shoulder and arm.
3. You are good at torso twisting and sideways movement, using your torso and non-weapon arm to shield your weapon arm from incoming fire as you trade shots at 400m+
4. You are good at firing at fast moving targets
5. You brawl at close quarters and move at fast speeds
6. You often fire from different elevations (e.g. Jumpjets, Maps like Canyon, Crimson Strait etc.)
#7
Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:55 AM
#8
Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:01 AM
Sandpit, on 22 October 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:
That's incorrect advice. Generally before you enter the "push" phase or the massive brawl, enemy mechs wll be fired upon at range and most often the CT will be damaged. People aim square in the middle of the Torso.
Why would you spend all that damage slowing tearing away every single bit of his weapons when the equal amount of damage deal can kill him? Would you aim two volleys of AC20 + 3x Art SRM6 + 2ML (e.g. 733C Highlander loadout) at a Yellow/Orange Torso, or at a untouched/Yellow Arm? Thats 132 damage in 8 secs and you're using that to destroy arms?!
EDIT: Mistake correction on 733C
Edited by D04S02B04, 22 October 2013 - 08:03 AM.
#9
Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:10 AM
D04S02B04, on 22 October 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:
That's incorrect advice. Generally before you enter the "push" phase or the massive brawl, enemy mechs wll be fired upon at range and most often the CT will be damaged. People aim square in the middle of the Torso.
Why would you spend all that damage slowing tearing away every single bit of his weapons when the equal amount of damage deal can kill him? Would you aim two volleys of AC20 + 3x Art SRM6 + 2ML (e.g. 733C Highlander loadout) at a Yellow/Orange Torso, or at a untouched/Yellow Arm? Thats 132 damage in 8 secs and you're using that to destroy arms?!
EDIT: Mistake correction on 733C
If your torso goes you're dead, cored. Therefore it's a moot point. It has always been a traditional thought that weapons mounted in torsos last longer for various reasons. It's the same reason you don't put ammo in the legs and arms if at all possible. They are less armored and easier to hit.
#10
Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:27 AM
Arms are optimal if you are able to take advantage what they bring to the table.... allowing you to shoot at your target w/o having to twist to them. There are some mechs that don't benefit from that through the lack of an upper arm actuator like a Jenner.
The only negatives are the location of the arms.... as low arms like a Cataphract make it mandatory for you to fight on even ground to be most effective. Also, arms tend to have the least amount of armor on the mech, so they are the first to go if your arms are large enough.
Note: Arm lock makes weapons on the arms less effective, unless you are jump shooting.
Torsos are great for keeping weapons alive long enough compare to the arms. In fact, it's even better when the location of where the weapon fires from is high... because it is far easier to hit the target from a greater height.
The negatives are that if you have weapons in the CT, they tend to be rather low so the firing point is only good for "level" engagements. Also, you would lack range/firing radius in terms of how much flexibility from firing at a torso point. Lasers are affected more by this (they are great on arms due to increased flexibility). Greater torso twist would negate much of the range issue.
Hopefully this is helpful to you.
There is no wrong answer, but there are more "optimal" arrangements based on where your weapon hardpoints are located.
#11
Posted 22 October 2013 - 11:28 AM
If the above conditions are not met, then high side torso mount all the way.
After giving some consideration to what I enjoy playing and am mostly effective in I have come to the realization that the only mechs I will purchase on day 1 without any consideration are JJing ballistic mechs. In a perfect world these mechs will have no hands and hopefully no lower arms. I may pick up some land based mechs now and then, but only after hearing word of mouth that they are good or I am really liking a possible build on smurfy.
#12
Posted 22 October 2013 - 07:38 PM
D04S02B04, on 22 October 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:
1. Preferably if Mount is High (e.g. Battlemaster)
2. ....
Deathlike, on 22 October 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:
....
Not the point of the thread but thanks for taking time to reply.
To iterate, I understand why there are pros and cons to both. I would like to know people's reasoning when choosing what they prefer.
For example. I put large lasers in the arm of my thunderbolt and MLas in torsos because I prefer being to able to aim freely without arm-lock.
CarnifexMaximus, on 22 October 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:
If the above conditions are not met, then high side torso mount all the way.
After giving some consideration to what I enjoy playing and am mostly effective in I have come to the realization that the only mechs I will purchase on day 1 without any consideration are JJing ballistic mechs. In a perfect world these mechs will have no hands and hopefully no lower arms. I may pick up some land based mechs now and then, but only after hearing word of mouth that they are good or I am really liking a possible build on smurfy.
Agreed. I love how ballistics play in the game. The Muromets with 3 AC/5's is legendary to me. The Jager is fun to mount AC10's and LLas but constantly find myself hindered by the torso twist. Can't be played up close as good as other mechs.
D04S02B04, on 22 October 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:
2. You are comfortable sidestepping in and out of cover to shoot exposing only shoulder and arm.
Personally, I prefer this over peeking over a ridge.
#13
Posted 22 October 2013 - 09:26 PM
Weapons ideally should be high on the mech, because terrain obstructions favor high weapon placement. This is always independent of arm or torso.
I would almost always perfect lasers on the arm. Since it is a hitscan weapon, the arms make like infinitely easier to shoot what I want.
I would almost always want PPCs in the torso. If a PPC has to go on the arm, there's a tendency to use arm lock in conjunction with jump shooting.
Ideally all missiles benefit from high launching points, and it doesn't matter where they are launched from.
Ballistics pretty much follow the PPC trend, unless it's something like a Gauss Rifle, where the arm is a safer option, despite the less armor. The explosion is an issue. You can gamble with your torso if you want if you can deal with the penalty. The AC20 is a lot more favorable in the torso by design, with some exceptions (the Highlander-733C has some extra arm movement)... same goes for the Victor.
There is no right or wrong answer... it's ultimately a matter of how effective you are with them in the spot they are in, and whether they "feel right" with you. On most mechs, these details can matter... and some don't. So, you have to try it out for yourself to see if it works out for you.
Edited by Deathlike, 22 October 2013 - 09:26 PM.
#14
Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:11 AM
Sandpit, on 22 October 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:
What? Um, no, you DO put ammo in the legs. They can carry a lot of armor, not many people shoot for them (unless you're a light or fast medium), and because they are often in motion it's hard to consistently nail a specific leg.
#15
Posted 23 October 2013 - 05:42 AM
Take for example my Awesomes. In my AWS-8R I run two PPCs in the arm, and really enjoy the incredibly wide arm mobility, its quick speed, and high precision, and even if it were possible to run them in the torsi, I wouldn't. But compare that to my AWS-8Q; it too has the ability to run a pair of PPCs in the same arm, but it's a bad choice to do so when I can run all four in my side torsi. First off, it helps quite a bit to run both weapon groups on the same crosshair, meaning that I don't have to worry about trying to line up two crosshairs moving at different speeds if I want to land both volleys of PPCs. Secondly, the 8Q is a mech that wants to engage at long ranges if at all possible, unlike the 8R which has 24 SRMs if anything is foolish enough to get close- this means that the 8Q doesn't need to worry about hitting targets that streak across the screen in less than a second very much, while the 8R thrives on those, so the extra arm mobility isn't much of an advantage. Furthermore, the weapons mounted in the torsi are much higher and closer to the mech's centerline, both of which are advantages when trying to shoot from cover at long distances; again, the 8R tends to use the PPCs as it advances as opposed to from behind heavy cover, so the low-mounted weapons are less of a disadvantage.
There's a lot to think about with where you put your weapons. Some of it is just learning to make the right choice, and some of it is preference; you need to learn what works best for you by experimenting with it, and decide for yourself.
#16
Posted 23 October 2013 - 07:43 AM
Also, I always put ammo in my legs. Please don't go shooting my legs now.
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