49 replies to this topic

[Crusbbcc]

CyclonerM, on 06 November 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

You can see as they are the most influential crowd because thanks to them PGI can pay the bills. This game will never be a simulation. Sad, quiaff?

Aff...but...well...at least I can not fully agree .
If you compare it to...can a mention this... MechAssault it IS a simulation.
Lets all be happy that MS did not completely and permanently kill Mechwarrior!

[Shrike ski]

the inherent problem here is not the tech disparity it is the players so you balance the clans by enforcing an honor system through cbills (though clan should be honor based) and xp, example firing at multiple targets = no honor / cbills / exp for damage or kills, running from your target reduced rewards, hiding behind cover no rewards, multiple clanners targeting the same mech negative rewards (can affect your banked stuff as well). on the inner sphere side of things using clan tech is much more expencive to maintain so any use of clan tech results in progressively less and less cbills per match example 1 er med laser 1% reduction 6 er med laser 35% reduction (got to pay a lot more for replacements and techs) intact clan mechs were exceedingly rare in the IS (most were sent to NIAS or other equivelents for study) even wolfs dragoons only had about a battalions worth and that was mostly from luthien until Blackwell finished construction of the new mech plants on outreach in 57 (output of about 2-4 mechs a month btw) so for using a full clan mech with clan tech you would only get about 25% of the normal cbill rewards for your performance again repairs are expencive.

[CyclonerM]

Crusbbcc, on 03 December 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

Aff...but...well...at least I can not fully agree .
If you compare it to...can a mention this... MechAssault it IS a simulation.
Lets all be happy that MS did not completely and permanently kill Mechwarrior!

Sure, even MechWarrior 4 Mercs gave me a better immersion in the universe, despite its many flaws..
But if i compare the F-18 mission in Battlefield 3 with Ace Combat Assault Horizon, Hawx or Top Gun: Hard Lock, i cannot say BF3 is a simulation just because it's less arcade than the latter games Even ARMA is not a full aerial combat sim, while my impression of DCS is that is one of the closest game we have to a real fighter simulation.

And if you create a new MechWarrior game. .Which turns out to be worse than expected, then we may just keep playing MW:LL. As i do The franchise is not dead yet nor is dead without MWO. Not yet.

Edited by CyclonerM, 04 December 2013 - 04:49 AM.

[Svenz]

Shrike ski, on 03 December 2013 - 09:54 PM, said:

the inherent problem here is not the tech disparity it is the players so you balance the clans by enforcing an honor system through cbills (though clan should be honor based) and xp, example firing at multiple targets = no honor / cbills / exp for damage or kills, running from your target reduced rewards, hiding behind cover no rewards, multiple clanners targeting the same mech negative rewards (can affect your banked stuff as well). on the inner sphere side of things using clan tech is much more expencive to maintain so any use of clan tech results in progressively less and less cbills per match example 1 er med laser 1% reduction 6 er med laser 35% reduction (got to pay a lot more for replacements and techs) intact clan mechs were exceedingly rare in the IS (most were sent to NIAS or other equivelents for study) even wolfs dragoons only had about a battalions worth and that was mostly from luthien until Blackwell finished construction of the new mech plants on outreach in 57 (output of about 2-4 mechs a month btw) so for using a full clan mech with clan tech you would only get about 25% of the normal cbill rewards for your performance again repairs are expencive.

Shinrei has a good point ,about how expensive it is for IS to actually field clan tech.
Other thing is the heat and ghost heat system....clan weapons have generally been hotter, so you can't really run around blasting full broadsides of lasers. Plus they could tweak the amount of how many weapons of the same type can a clan tech user fire before ghost heat kicks in.....

That would generally cause clanner to make every shot count. And every ton used to maximum potential.

I also supprt the 3 lance IS vs Binary clan drop, as an idea generally,but it needs a more throughout look at it.

[Karl Streiger]

Svenz, on 04 December 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Shinrei has a good point ,about how expensive it is for IS to actually field clan tech.
Other thing is the heat and ghost heat system....clan weapons have generally been hotter, so you can't really run around blasting full broadsides of lasers.

Basically the only weapons that were hotter are the ER-Medium and ER-Small Laser - all other weapons have the heat of Star League Technology.

I'm not sure about if the balancing approach of heat alone will work with the current heat system.
I can imagine that 4 or 6 Clan ER-Medium Laser (even when they deal 6 instead of 5 heat) - would be devastating because considering range they are equal to IS Large Lasers.
So you need that ankward Ghost Heat system.... and sorry we need a better working heat system not even more Ghost Heat solutions.

It would be awesome stupid to have a Ghost Heat for every Clan ER-Medium Laser above 3 - but when you take 4 they are not balanced vs IS Large Laser with Ghost Heat above 2 units.

However Clan DHS and Clan XL - when solved like in TT (at least the size has to be solved in that way) will allow your mech to have much more heat sinks.

Take for example the Boars Head - scout Mech
4 ER-Large Laser + AMS + BA + TAG + 400XL + 18.5t Armor + 24 DHS
Same with Clan Tech:
6 ER-Large Laser + 400XL + 17.5t Armor + ENDOSTEEL + 30 DHS
or
2 ER-Large Laser and 2 ER-PPCs + 400XL + 19.5t Armor + ENDO + 31 DHS

Ok that isn't a real problem at all.
More interesting is the medium Mech class.
For example the BJ-3 with Endosteel and 225 XL give you 12 DHS
With clan tech is easy to have Endosteel, FerroFibrous and 16 DHS - and your fire power is more as doubled.

So when you want to have a hard hitting - cool efficient Mech clan tech will it make possible

[Colonel Kernal]

I've always said that the Clan weapons should be longer duration weapons. So, their lasers have a longer duration (but all the damage/weight that they'd normally have), their missles fire out of the tubes kinda like they did in Mechwarrior Living Legends, or the SRMs in MW4, and their Autocannons are burst fire with multiple rounds.

And then, we could have different sized teams as well, but I think that might make it tricky to balance (though it would be cool!), because the numbers wouldn't be very clear.

Edited by Colonel Kernal, 04 December 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[Will9761]

What about decreasing the clan's weapon damage slightly? For example a Clan ER PPC is 15 damage while the IS version is 10. You could reduce the clan version by 12, that way it's still powerful, but not to the extent to where the weapon is ridiculously OP. Also the heat would be increased by 17 due its the extra damage output and range.

For example, lets look at the different damages that the Warhawk(Masakari) could do with 4x ER PPCs:
Original Clan ER PPCs with 15 damage
4 x 15 = 60 damage.
It has the same damage as a 6xPPC Stalker and that would cause problems.

Clan ER PPCs with 12 damage
12 x 4 = 48 damage.
It's powerful, but not to the ridiculous manner as shown above. This kind of damage output is fine since it doesn't go overboard.

Edited by Will9761, 04 December 2013 - 09:43 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Is it wrong that I wanna be the lil guy vs the big bad Clanners?

[Will9761]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 December 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Is it wrong that I wanna be the lil guy vs the big bad Clanners?

That is exactly how I sum up the IS vs Clans, lol.

[shellashock]

Clan tech might be able to be balanced by numbers in competitive play or community warfare, but I honestly do not see how they could be balanced by numbers in pugging. This latest change to spawn points has everyone in an uproar and maybe 1 out of 5 games do I see people paying attention to chat and converging to one point. You just see individual lances running off and dying to groups of 8-12 that spawned within 1000m of them.

If the majority of pugs can't communicate enough to to converge on one location, how are you going to communicate to pugs that you have to focus fire on the clan mechs and use team work?

TL:DR: 10 v.s 12 will only work if kept in competitive play/ community warfare only. Will only result in steamrolls in pugs.