132 replies to this topic

[Texas Merc]

If you look at the pre-match screen the enemy team are actually listed alphabetically, then alphabetically lower case, then special characters.

[Dodger79]

Tanar, on 31 October 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

also i find it odd that prematch you can fairly often find premades scattered among the three lances (basing it on teams with house affiliations). then aftere the match suddenly all those "scattered" house players are now all part of one lance where if they popped up that way at the start at least we'd have an idea there was a probably premade afoot.

You simply cannot draw the conclusion "faction=premade". During european prime time there are so many Steiners playing that you might assume, every player who is NOT affiliated with House Steiner is in a premade ;-)

[JohnnyWayne]

No not quite that simple, but you'll feel it ingame. I can't guess right all the times either. I think it has been said already but a team is not the guys you form a premade with, they are part of it. Your team in this "teamgame" is the 11 other people you drop with. A teamgame does not mean to form premades, it means to play with your team. Premades often don't and thats just a sidepoint I have to add.

Listen up guys, because I have something to say for that I've already been teamkilled:

Why do people use voip programms in "normal" queues? To have some fun with friends? Maybe, but the main thing is certainly to coordinate ingame.I have done 4 mans once too, we annihilated anything. So you gain an advantage over other players, exclutisvely for your premade.

So gernerally you use a 3rd party software to gain an unfair advantage over the other players. Thats quite the same definition like using an aimbot. So where is the difference? I don't see it, maybe you do explain me if you see it.

Well this situation would instantly change if there were ingame voip. But as long as there isn't premades are exploiting a broken game mechanic by using a 3rd party software. That's right, premade players are exploiter.


So after I have already experienced the difference I'd love to see 3*4 vs 3*4 queues. I'd also limit the dropgroups for normal queues to 2 players. Not enough to have a game changeing influece by coordination but still by skill. Against pugs its so boring and skillless that it's laughable how premade players defend the current system. I have won games that were 5 vs 11, in the enemys favor. Premade players mostly don't realise that they arn't that great, or they are and just destroy the enemy team... No fun either, to anyone.. Well except the bad ones.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 01 November 2013 - 03:37 AM.

[anonymous161]

Hellcat420, on 22 October 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

dude if there is a premade on one team, both teams have them. they do not put teams of pugs against teams of premades. just because premades dont announce themselves at the beginning of a match does not mean they are not on your team.

uhhhhh thats where you are wrong. I was paired with a pre made group of ac40 jagers, I was an atlas or a spider, but we wiped out their entire team easily it was obvious they were communicating with each other, even told me so. Now I had fun of course because I got good kills and damage and wasn't alone as the group made sure to sweep around each other.

If they could just release this stupid ui2.0 that allows people to party up without having to write down on a piece of paper so they can remember the right spelling of their name would make the game more fun, but I imagine it will be released broken and taken off again.

[jper4]

Dodger79, on 31 October 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

You simply cannot draw the conclusion "faction=premade". During european prime time there are so many Steiners playing that you might assume, every player who is NOT affiliated with House Steiner is in a premade ;-)

that's why i said "fairly often" instead of "always" because in my matches i find it happens that way a lot but not always. so in the interests of preparing myself for the match i'll pick the worst scenario fo me- that there is a group on the other side that will be on comms and will have a communication advantage. better to be surprised that it was a bunch of randoms with less coordination between them than find out there's a coordinated group there instead.

[Kunae]

Darth Bane001, on 01 November 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

uhhhhh thats where you are wrong. I was paired with a pre made group of ac40 jagers, I was an atlas or a spider, but we wiped out their entire team easily it was obvious they were communicating with each other, even told me so. Now I had fun of course because I got good kills and damage and wasn't alone as the group made sure to sweep around each other.

He isn't wrong. You don't know that there weren't some pre-grouped folks on the other side, as well. Just because your side was successful, doesn't mean the entire other team wasn't on comms, even doing a successful sync-drop with all 12.

Bads will be bads, and it doesn't matter if bads drop solo or in 12's.

Darth Bane001, on 01 November 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

If they could just release this stupid ui2.0 that allows people to party up without having to write down on a piece of paper so they can remember the right spelling of their name would make the game more fun, but I imagine it will be released broken and taken off again.

Um... there's this thing called a "friends list" that once you add someone to it you don't have to have their name written down on "paper".

And "UI 2.0" isn't going to make it any easier, it's just going to be a different color lipstick on the same tired pig.

[WarHippy]

MerryIguana, on 31 October 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Truly inspirational. To some of you this GAME may be life, but try to keep that a secret k.

What are you getting at I am confused?

[Kunae]

WarHippy, on 01 November 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

What are you getting at I am confused?

It's a mystery to everyone, but him, I think.

[WarHippy]

JohnnyWayne, on 01 November 2013 - 03:32 AM, said:

No not quite that simple, but you'll feel it ingame. I can't guess right all the times either. I think it has been said already but a team is not the guys you form a premade with, they are part of it. Your team in this "teamgame" is the 11 other people you drop with. A teamgame does not mean to form premades, it means to play with your team. Premades often don't and thats just a sidepoint I have to add.

Listen up guys, because I have something to say for that I've already been teamkilled:

Why do people use voip programms in "normal" queues? To have some fun with friends? Maybe, but the main thing is certainly to coordinate ingame.I have done 4 mans once too, we annihilated anything. So you gain an advantage over other players, exclutisvely for your premade.

So gernerally you use a 3rd party software to gain an unfair advantage over the other players. Thats quite the same definition like using an aimbot. So where is the difference? I don't see it, maybe you do explain me if you see it.

Well this situation would instantly change if there were ingame voip. But as long as there isn't premades are exploiting a broken game mechanic by using a 3rd party software. That's right, premade players are exploiter.


So after I have already experienced the difference I'd love to see 3*4 vs 3*4 queues. I'd also limit the dropgroups for normal queues to 2 players. Not enough to have a game changeing influece by coordination but still by skill. Against pugs its so boring and skillless that it's laughable how premade players defend the current system. I have won games that were 5 vs 11, in the enemys favor. Premade players mostly don't realise that they arn't that great, or they are and just destroy the enemy team... No fun either, to anyone.. Well except the bad ones.

So if you play with 2-3 friends and happen to use an application so you can talk with them instead of type you are an exploiter? Thanks for that informative wall of stupid.

Out of all the threads talking about this that have come about, this one is really at a new level of ridiculous.

[Roadbeer]

WarHippy, on 01 November 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

So if you play with 2-3 friends and happen to use an application so you can talk with them instead of type you are an exploiter? Thanks for that informative wall of stupid.

Out of all the threads talking about this that have come about, this one is really at a new level of ridiculous.

It's not the first time I've seen that. VoiP is exploiting, having more than 2 buttons on your mouse is exploiting, using anything that isn't a standard Windows keyboard is exploiting.

It's the great Progressive fallacy that everyone should be equally gimped.

[WarHippy]

Roadbeer, on 01 November 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

It's not the first time I've seen that. VoiP is exploiting, having more than 2 buttons on your mouse is exploiting, using anything that isn't a standard Windows keyboard is exploiting.

It's the great Progressive fallacy that everyone should be equally gimped.

Yeah, I really don't get it. Admittedly I'm not really a fan of macros because the entire concept of it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but complaining about VoiP or extra buttons on a mouse is taking the absurd train way too far down the crazy track.

[Kunae]

WarHippy, on 01 November 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Yeah, I really don't get it. Admittedly I'm not really a fan of macros because the entire concept of it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but complaining about VoiP or extra buttons on a mouse is taking the absurd train way too far down the crazy track.

People always conflate macros with "unattended macros". This angst is a carry-over from many of the early MMO's, where unattended macros, or afk-macroing, was a problem, at times. These allowed people to do things like farm a spawn overnight, or while a user was at work, potentially harming other players by making that particular area/loot unavailable to any but the "macro'er".

Macros have always been allowed, in pretty much every game, as long as you are at your keyboard.

[JohnnyWayne]

WarHippy, on 01 November 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

So if you play with 2-3 friends and happen to use an application so you can talk with them instead of type you are an exploiter? Thanks for that informative wall of stupid.

Out of all the threads talking about this that have come about, this one is really at a new level of ridiculous.

As long as you use ANY kind of voip for coordination instead of simple chatter it's an advantage. At least as long as you do and the rest of the players don't have voip integrated into the game so that they can too.

All you did was taking a dump onto the forums instead of awnsering my question.I think you are that "stupid" you mentioned.


None of you explained the difference. I'd guess none of you sees one, just like I.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 01 November 2013 - 09:19 AM.

[HeavyRain]

I love how the roflstompers say "War is not fair, life is not fair, suck it up and l2p".
Then you ask why they are against teams dropping only against other teams and they reply "What is going to happen when we have to drop 11 or 10 against 12? That wouldn't be fair."
WHAT?

[JohnnyWayne]

Thats a simple reason: They claim to want to play with friends and life is not fair as long as they have the advantage. As soon as they stop teaming up for coordination, they'll lose and see how bad they really are.

I'd say you are that needy that you drop in 4 mans and don't want different qeueus, because you SUCK at the game. You'd rather continue roflstomping pugs, because that way you can continue pretending to be awesome, instead of having real competition.

You truly are scum if you think so. Exactly that kind of scum that aims to destroy the game and the most stupid among these don't even realise that.

[Sug]

Separate queues would destroy the community as 90% of the people doing premades are doing them for easy wins. If you say you're doing it for "fun" see how much fun you have when you get your *** kicked over and over by real teams.

Same thing happened in WoW a few years ago. Everyone twinking and doing premades for "fun" in random bgs basically dissappeared overnight once blizzard implemented separate queues and made rated bgs. The 90% grouping up for "fun" hating playing against the top 10% grouping up "for real".

[Burke IV]

Calm down johnny. Im sure your heart is in the right place but what you say about voip is silly. The blame is at the feet of PGI for not including it for everybody in game. You are correct that pug stomping in groups is lame but no need to hurl insults.

My take on macros is that they are of course cheating in a perfect world. However they are here, they are staying and people that dont like it face the choice of dealing with it or not playing.

The people talking about free speach further back need to accept that they dont have any. They got nothing save what PGI gives them and if they bleat too loudly they will just get removed. Again deal with it or quit


Edit: sug how many of the "fun" players ever cleared any raids when they were still new?

Edited by Burke IV, 01 November 2013 - 09:40 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

JohnnyWayne, on 01 November 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

Thats a simple reason: They claim to want to play with friends and life is not fair as long as they have the advantage. As soon as they stop teaming up for coordination, they'll lose and see how bad they really are.

I'd say you are that needy that you drop in 4 mans and don't want different qeueus, because you SUCK at the game. You'd rather continue roflstomping pugs, because that way you can continue pretending to be awesome, instead of having real competition.

You truly are scum if you think so. Exactly that kind of scum that aims to destroy the game and the most stupid among these don't even realise that.

As a Lawman I am around a .600 average with a 1.3 K/D

As a PUG I am around a .600 average with a 1.3 K/D
...
...
...
You were saying?

[WarHippy]

Kunae, on 01 November 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

People always conflate macros with "unattended macros". This angst is a carry-over from many of the early MMO's, where unattended macros, or afk-macroing, was a problem, at times. These allowed people to do things like farm a spawn overnight, or while a user was at work, potentially harming other players by making that particular area/loot unavailable to any but the "macro'er".

Macros have always been allowed, in pretty much every game, as long as you are at your keyboard.

Yes, I know the difference, but I still don't like it because it takes some of the human element out of it. With macros in some games you can nearly automate a lot of the players actions with such precision that it defies realistic human action. While it is possible to do a lot of these things without a macro it generally is not to the same precise consistent level achieved using a macro. It just rubs me the wrong way, but I understand opinions vary in that regard. Either way this isn't really the topic of this thread, and is an entirely different discussion.

[JohnnyWayne]

@ Joseph The two of us had this discussion already and I accept that you have a different opinion about it. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.

All I can say is, as soon as I use voip and command a 4 mans it gets laughably easy to win against pugs even with premades integrated. That brings me to the result that bad players form up to dominate solo players. I'd love to have 3*4 vs 3*4 queues with lance commanders in every lance and an external commander like in bf2142 that can use sat scans and has control over arty and airstrike. This would result in lance gameplay like I had hoped for in mwo.

For random queues there should not be more than 2 players in a queue, thats small enough to not make such an influence like 4 players. 3 friends have to find a fourth one. Thats way easier than finding 3 people without any reasonable possibility of social interaction ingame.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 01 November 2013 - 10:00 AM.