103 replies to this topic

[Krivvan]

Victor Morson, on 23 October 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Definitely true for the majority of 'mechs. But if you own a Jenner, try a 6SPL setup and you will never go back. There are other exceptions too; I have a few mediums that mount SPL over ML like my 9AL specifically to counter light 'mechs.

I do run it in certain situations.

The problem is when games shift to a standoff stage. You become completely 100% useless. You don't have the range to do strafing shots. And now, even worse, you're not the fastest mech anymore so you can get kited.

You can't run into a group of enemy mechs and just keep fighting them at 90m in higher elo matches (so what you will, but it's true) unless you have your heavies backing you up.

If you want something to absolutely hard counter other lights, then you can grab the Jenner-D and still be useful against heavier mechs.

I haven't tried it, but 3xSPL (or 2), 3xML Jenner might work well in pugs.

Edited by Krivvan, 23 October 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Roland]

Victor Morson, on 23 October 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Definitely true for the majority of 'mechs. But if you own a Jenner, try a 6SPL setup and you will never go back.

Ya, I tried that config when they last changed the pulse lasers.. I just didn't really love it that much. Maybe I'll try it again.

[Screech]

I guess I am crazy in thinking that a 6SL Jenner is better then a 6SPL Jenner for 1v1 light dogfight. Its not as cut and dry as it was before DHS but it still leaves you a larger margin of error. You can get a lot of extra mileage with that extra 3 tons. Also you are immune to overheats basically on any map if you want and this does matter when you are unable to disengage from a fight until one person is dead.

[Krivvan]

Screech, on 23 October 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

I guess I am crazy in thinking that a 6SL Jenner is better then a 6SPL Jenner for 1v1 light dogfight. Its not as cut and dry as it was before DHS but it still leaves you a larger margin of error. You can get a lot of extra mileage with that extra 3 tons. Also you are immune to overheats basically on any map if you want and this does matter when you are unable to disengage from a fight until one person is dead.

It depends on the skill level of both pilots. 6 SPL lets you do a ton of damage in the small windows you may actually have on a component you want to hit.

[Deathlike]

We've gone through a lot of pulse laser needs buff threads, and frankly, I don't think what we have now is really competitive no matter how some would like to spin it.

A semi-easier fix at the moment would be to increase the max range "multiplier" of all pulse lasers from 2 to 2.5. That would reduce some of the range issues it is, w/o actually changing its optimal range. A side effect of that is that the Small Laser would probably need a range buff.

Otherwise, the changes needed would be for optimal range, heat, and to a lesser extent damage.... mostly in buffing those areas.

It is hard to not run mediums whenever possible, and no small laser, small pulse, or med pulse laser would change my thinking here as it currently stands.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 October 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[Cheesy Pete]

Doh.

Edited by Cheesy Pete, 23 October 2013 - 06:23 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

espritjaeger, on 23 October 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

You don't bring a snipe rifle to do close quarters combat. You do not bring a rifle to take down a tank. You do not bring a shotgun to a sniper fight. However... If you have a sniper rifle, you set yourself up in a sniping position. If you have a rifle, you try to setup a scenario that benefits your rifle. If you have a shotgun, you try and fight in close quarters.

That is true, but imagine instead that instead of a sniper rifle, a rifle and a shotgun, we're discussing a longbow, an assault rifle and a fist.

Now think about what you'd rather have in a fight - regardless of where you position yourself, I'd argue that the assault rifle will do you best.

The question is do all weapons or mechs act like sniper rifles, rifles, and shotguns, or are some actually only longbows and fists?

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 23 October 2013 - 10:32 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Deathlike, on 23 October 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

We've gone through a lot of pulse laser needs buff threads, and frankly, I don't think what we have now is really competitive no matter how some would like to spin it.

I disagree and I think most of the top units would as well; there's plenty of SPL and MPL fielded. MPLs are not nearly as good as the SPL ton-for-ton though, not by a long shot. LPLs.. you don't see LPLs and there's really a pretty solid reason for that.

EDIT: Maybe if Ghost Heat ever finally upped the LL limit like we've been begging for forever, LPLs might have a solid reason to be used over PPC.

Edited by Victor Morson, 23 October 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[Krivvan]

Victor Morson, on 23 October 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

I disagree and I think most of the top units would as well; there's plenty of SPL and MPL fielded.

SPLs and MPLs are not ACs, PPCs, MLs, or ERLLs.

I haven't even seen people in the 12-man queue field pulse lasers, much less top units.

Edited by Krivvan, 23 October 2013 - 11:46 PM.

[Hanz Blitzer]

I run a blackjack with an xl235, 2 large pulse lasers, and two medium lasers. I average around 350 damage with this build and two kills. I am not trying to pile up damage over time. I pick my moments and hit weak areas. Because of the pulse lasers shorter beam duration, I have less damage wasted when the target torso twists. I do better with pulse lasers than standard lasers. They just have to be used differently.

[Victor Morson]

Krivvan, on 23 October 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

I haven't even seen people in the 12-man queue field pulse lasers, much less top units.

Tons run the SPL on their lights. I don't know what you're thinking.

The MPL usually only shows up in organized, very lightweight drops on mediums with nothing else to do with the slots, though.

Edited by Victor Morson, 24 October 2013 - 01:27 AM.

[Krivvan]

Victor Morson, on 24 October 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

Tons run the SPL on their lights. I don't know what you're thinking.

None of the good light pilots I know actually run it.

[Shadey99]

Deathlike, on 23 October 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

A side effect of that is that the Small Laser would probably need a range buff.

The Small Laser has always needed a range buff, realistically it should have a range more like a a MPL does now.

[Deathlike]

Victor Morson, on 23 October 2013 - 10:52 PM, said:

I disagree and I think most of the top units would as well; there's plenty of SPL and MPL fielded. MPLs are not nearly as good as the SPL ton-for-ton though, not by a long shot. LPLs.. you don't see LPLs and there's really a pretty solid reason for that.

The problem with the SPL as it stands, it's a niche within a niche within a niche.

The medium laser is pretty much a general use/purpose short range laser that even accompanies most of the biggest missile and AC boats.

The only time SPL/SL actually comes into play is if a light mech is capping and is trying to secure the cap site. You are forced to engage at the range of the SPL/SL, but that's worse than the Streaktaro that has more range to play with.

[Xmith]

If the devs decide to increase range on the PL, they will most certainly decrease DPS.

[Jman5]

PGI should give them a crit bonus.

[Deathlike]

Jman5, on 24 October 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

PGI should give them a crit bonus.

Don't give them bad ideas. You'll only rattle the natives more.

[Kanatta Jing]

Pulse lasers have comparable damage but nearly half the burn time. It is actually easier to get all the damage into the one allocation you want it then with non-pulse lasers.

One of my T-bolts carries 3 medium pulses. It's not bad really. Kind of like a ghetto AC/20.

[mike29tw]

Kanatta Jing, on 24 October 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Pulse lasers have comparable damage but nearly half the burn time. It is actually easier to get all the damage into the one allocation you want it then with non-pulse lasers.

One of my T-bolts carries 3 medium pulses. It's not bad really. Kind of like a ghetto AC/20.

Guess what, 4 medium lasers is a better ghetto AC20, for a tiny bit hotter and 2 tons lighter. It has the same damage effective range as AC20 too !!

[OneEyed Jack]

mike29tw, on 25 October 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

Guess what, 4 medium lasers is a better ghetto AC20, for a tiny bit hotter and 2 tons lighter. It has the same damage effective range as AC20 too !!

Far more difficult to get the damage focused on a single location... and takes another hardpoint.