103 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

Every pulse laser in the game just seems like garbage with the lower range, higher weight, AND higher heat. The only benefit you get out of it is a small increase in damage, and this is also ignoring that it's more difficult to land your pulses effectively.

EDIT: I was mistaken about it being more difficult to land pulses effectively since you don't have to keep your laser on target for as long, which does actually make it easier. As a result, you do actually get 2 advantages for using pulse lasers.

Other than damage, the only disadvantage you don't get is pulse lasers taking up more slots, but when you only get a 20% damage increase (less if it's not a medium pulse) then it's just NOT worth all the drawbacks, especially considering its weight is doubled for small & medium pulse lasers, with large pulse lasers coming out the best as far as the damage:tonnage ratio goes but it still sucks.

I could see myself maybe using a medium pulse laser instead of 2 medium lasers if for some reason the mech would be too hot otherwise, but that's pretty much it, and I've yet to find a good build where I need to do that. The main thing that sucks is how much heavier each pulse laser is, because chances are really high that I would be better off with a bigger engine, another heat sink, a couple jump jets, more ammo, more armor, or whatever else that isn't a pulse laser.

Much like flamers I really don't see much use for any of the pulse lasers, the drawbacks are just way too high for what little you get out of it compared to regular lasers.

Edited by Pjwned, 26 October 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Pjwned, on 23 October 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Every pulse laser in the game just seems like garbage with the lower range, higher weight, AND higher heat. The only benefit you get out of it is a small increase in damage, and this is also ignoring that it's more difficult to land your pulses effectively.

It seems like that because that is what they exactly are.

Pulse Lasers in MW:O use the same exact firing mechanic (the animation is different but does not affect gameplay) as standard beam lasers, at the cost of more tonnage, less range, and higher heat.

For what benefit? Negligibly higher damage and a shorter burn time. Woo baby. (only in a select few instances are they ever actually worth taking)

Use the tonnage elsewhere. They won't ever be worth it unless they give pulse lasers a unique firing mechanic so they are actually a different weapon like in every other mechwarrior game.









The short answer, Pulse Lasers suck. They seem like {Scrap}, because they are {Scrap}.

Edited by mwhighlander, 23 October 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[Shadey99]

Several of us have long said the pulse lasers need to become a kind of laser machinegun dealing sustained DPS for their heat.

[CeeKay Boques]

I dunno, being able to take the snappiest of snapshots is really helpful for quick moving mechs. Being able to dump a full load of damage in between two buildings or hills at 130kph is better than having half of it scrape over the side of the hill. I have a Cicada and a QWK build for that, as its main build, but the piloting theory is built around "Now you see me now you don't". I wouldn't put them on anything under 90kph, except for a Cataphract I have with 2 Er and 2 LPL. Long long long... HI!

[Dawnstealer]

Pjwned, on 23 October 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

Every pulse laser in the game just seems like garbage with the lower range, higher weight, AND higher heat. The only benefit you get out of it is a small increase in damage, and this is also ignoring that it's more difficult to land your pulses effectively.

Other than damage, the only disadvantage you don't get is pulse lasers taking up more slots, but when you only get a 20% damage increase (less if it's not a medium pulse) then it's just NOT worth all the drawbacks, especially considering its weight is doubled for small & medium pulse lasers, with large pulse lasers coming out the best as far as the damage:tonnage ratio goes but it still sucks.

I could see myself maybe using a medium pulse laser instead of 2 medium lasers if for some reason the mech would be too hot otherwise, but that's pretty much it, and I've yet to find a good build where I need to do that. The main thing that sucks is how much heavier each pulse laser is, because chances are really high that I would be better off with a bigger engine, another heat sink, a couple jump jets, more ammo, more armor, or whatever else that isn't a pulse laser.

Much like flamers I really don't see much use for any of the pulse lasers, the drawbacks are just way too high for what little you get out of it compared to regular lasers.

Funny. So I'm grinding through my T-bolts right now. I came up with what I thought was a pretty rocking build with two LPLs in the arm. Took it into the game and found it to be less than impressive. Switched over to regular LLs and was FAR more effective.

They probably aren't bad for a beginner, strangely enough, because beginners need the quick-aim a pulse laser provides and overheat anyways: they might as well do as much damage as possible before they do. But for more experienced players, they just run too hot over the length of an engagement. You have to shoot, go hide to cool down, then shoot, repeat ad nauseum.

Regular lasers are far more effective, at least when it comes to LPLs.

With MPLs/SPLs? They have a place on lighter mechs, I'd say, since they're hit and run mechs. Pop in, blast with a couple alphas into someone's back (or leg, if they're Light-hunting), run away, cool off.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 23 October 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[Herbstwind]

There is some purpose for large pulse lasers when they are combined with medium lasers (since they have very similar ranges) in cases where you have enough free tons but not many energy hardpoints and you still want to go for an energy build.

For the medium and small pulse lasers I don't see much use... other than the fact that they sound pretty cool

[PEEFsmash]

Pulse lasers are absolute trash, I agree.

Now can you explain "redpilling" a bit more because that's a word I think I can get behind. Is it a reference to the Matrix?

[Otto Cannon]

Pulse lasers are flat out bad. The tiny extra damage is paid for with extra heat, but then they also have half the range and weigh massively more too... shorter duration doesn't make up for that if you're a decent shot with lasers.

I desperately want to use them but just can't justify it for the sake of a better sound effect. The only time I consider them is if my build has extra tonnage but no free crits and max engine.

[Bors Mistral]

I like pulse-lazors as they are, only their tonnage blows ballz.
If they were 0.75/1.5/6 ton for the SPL/MPL/LPL I'd be equipping them a lot more often.

And while we're dreaming of lowering weapon tonnages, can we have SRM2 a 0.5 ton?

[Fut]

Dawnstealer, on 23 October 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Funny. So I'm grinding through my T-bolts right now. I came up with what I thought was a pretty rocking build with two LPLs in the arm. Took it into the game and found it to be less than impressive. Switched over to regular LLs and was FAR more effective.

They probably aren't bad for a beginner, strangely enough, because beginners need the quick-aim a pulse laser provides and overheat anyways: they might as well do as much damage as possible before they do. But for more experienced players, they just run too hot over the length of an engagement. You have to shoot, go hide to cool down, then shoot, repeat ad nauseum.

Regular lasers are far more effective, at least when it comes to LPLs.

So perfectly suited for fast Mechs that rely on a run & gun style of play to survive... I agree that they aren't as good as they can be, but they do have a niche within MW:O.

Dawnstealer, on 23 October 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

With MPLs/SPLs? They have a place on lighter mechs, I'd say, since they're hit and run mechs. Pop in, blast with a couple alphas into someone's back (or leg, if they're Light-hunting), run away, cool off.

Ugh... Can't wait for the day that the Alpha-Warrior: Online mentality goes away...
No wonder people complain about Pulses being "too hot", when their entire strategy is to shoot every weapon on their Mech at the same time the entire match.

[Pjwned]

Technoviking, on 23 October 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

I dunno, being able to take the snappiest of snapshots is really helpful for quick moving mechs. Being able to dump a full load of damage in between two buildings or hills at 130kph is better than having half of it scrape over the side of the hill. I have a Cicada and a QWK build for that, as its main build, but the piloting theory is built around "Now you see me now you don't". I wouldn't put them on anything under 90kph, except for a Cataphract I have with 2 Er and 2 LPL. Long long long... HI!

I guess I can see that but there are other weapons (SRMs, ballistics) that can do this as well and they don't have such a crappy damage:tonnage ratio with poor range and heat generation.

Edited by Pjwned, 23 October 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[Wispsy]

PEEFsmash, on 23 October 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Pulse lasers are absolute trash, I agree.

Now can you explain "redpilling" a bit more because that's a word I think I can get behind. Is it a reference to the Matrix?

Relatively sure it is.

Guessing a "Get me the **** out of here your rabbit hole sucks ***" kind of thing?

[Phromethius]

I find them very enjoyable on my Jenner D. I run 4 small pulse with srms. They definitely fit that niche of hit and run. And with the small pulse the heat is very mannagable. However as much as I want to use them I can't find any fit for Medium pulses or Large pulses that are not better served with regular lasers of the same class.

[mike29tw]

Fut, on 23 October 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Ugh... Can't wait for the day that the Alpha-Warrior: Online mentality goes away...
No wonder people complain about Pulses being "too hot", when their entire strategy is to shoot every weapon on their Mech at the same time the entire match.

I have the tonnage and heat capacity/dissipation for alphaing my arsenal several times. Tell me why I should fire my weapons one by one and kill you in twice the time it takes if I alpha? Because I'm ruining your BATTLETECH IMMERSION??

I play to win and that's how I'm going to play it.

On the topic of pulse laser, yes they suck. Regular lasers are always a better choice. My suggestion would be to buff their damage significantly so the actually worth their ridiculous range, heat, and weight.

Edited by mike29tw, 23 October 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[Fut]

mike29tw, on 23 October 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

I have the tonnage and heat capacity/dissipation for alphaing my arsenal several times. Tell me why I should fire my weapons one by one and kill you in twice the time it takes if I alpha? Because I'm ruining your BATTLETECH IMMERSION??

Basically, yeah.
But not just mine, every other person who came to MW:O expecting to play a game that was BT on the computer.
I suppose I shouldn't fault the players as much as I do - you're only taking advantage of a massive over-sight on the Dev's part.

Although, there is something to be said about people who will exploit anything they can in a game...

Hey, if you were playing a Hockey game, and for some reason it let you pick the puck up in your hand and throw it into the net - would you do it?
It's not a part of Hockey at all, and you're playing a game that's supposed to be Hockey... but winning is very important.

mike29tw, on 23 October 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

I play to win and that's how I'm going to play it.

Oh yeah, I always forget that interweb games are serious business.
Keep on winning, Hot Shot, we're all very impressed.

[EyeOne]

I'm kind of addicted to Pulse Lasers at the moment, so I'll defend them.

I think the shorter beam duration is understated. Especially for a light mech, doing as much damage as you can as you whiz by an enemy is a massive deal. So getting to do one more point of damage while having to maintain aim for about half the time is huge. And this helps the recycle time also as the weapon starts recycling before the standard versions so you get a second shot in before your enemy.

I agree that for double the weight of the medium variety the range should be closer to the standard lasers though. I would expect a range buff at some point as I believe Paul said they were doing a tuning pass on beam weapons soon.

I think they may just be too niche, but they don't suck nor do I think they are useless. If I'm building a pure brawler I go with pulse lasers if I can afford it. If someone gets in my face with pulse lasers I worry a little more.

[mike29tw]

Fut, on 23 October 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Basically, yeah.
But not just mine, every other person who came to MW:O expecting to play a game that was BT on the computer.
I suppose I shouldn't fault the players as much as I do - you're only taking advantage of a massive over-sight on the Dev's part.

Although, there is something to be said about people who will exploit anything they can in a game...

You seem to think that alpha strike is a secret cheat the buried under the code of the game and only few malicious players have access to it. It's not. It's part of the game and everyone has access to it.

Fut, on 23 October 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Hey, if you were playing a Hockey game, and for some reason it let you pick the puck up in your hand and throw it into the net - would you do it?
It's not a part of Hockey at all, and you're playing a game that's supposed to be Hockey... but winning is very important.

Here's your problem. the game is not Hockey, it's a game that looks like hockey, except for some reason the rules allow you to use your hands to pick up the puck.

The game is not Hockey, and MWO is not Battletech. PGI said it explicitly that MWO is an interpretation of BT. Deal with it.

Fut, on 23 October 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Oh yeah, I always forget that interweb games are serious business.
Keep on winning, Hot Shot, we're all very impressed.

I enjoy winning matches. You should reconsider your priority if you don't.

[Pjwned]

Phromethius, on 23 October 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

I find them very enjoyable on my Jenner D. I run 4 small pulse with srms. They definitely fit that niche of hit and run. And with the small pulse the heat is very mannagable. However as much as I want to use them I can't find any fit for Medium pulses or Large pulses that are not better served with regular lasers of the same class.

I run a Jenner D frequently myself, except I roll with 4 medium lasers, and I've been in plenty of situations where I definitely needed the extra range (compared to a small laser) to do anything worthwhile while still playing somewhat of a hit & run style, not to mention the total damage is higher and the heat is plenty managable with enough double heat sinks.

If the small pulse lasers didn't weigh the same as a medium laser I would try them out, but the low damage and low range for how much it weighs just doesn't seem worth it.

[ShotgunWillie]

IF you're going to be close enough to use them, small pulse lasers are an upgrade to sustained DPS over regular medium lasers. Medium lasers put out more heat and have a slower cycle time than small pulse lasers, so you can fire SPLS faster for less heat, though you have to be MUUUCH closer to use them.

[Gallowglas]

The marginal damage difference definitely isn't worth the difference in weight, heat, and range. The penalties are simply way too steep.