131 replies to this topic

[Victor Morson]

So, I think we all realize now that no matter how many times we state that we dislike Ghost Heat and also point out how it was rendered entirely unnecessary by PPC heat increases, it's probably not going away.

However, the only build style it's really wrecking right now is the beam energy 'mech. These were a ton of fun before Ghost Heat and nobody ever called them OP. However, now, the only people you see running more than 2 Large Lasers require an external program to do it. That shouldn't be required for a well balanced, fun build.

Thus this poll is simple: If Ghost Heat is here to stay, like it or not, what should the actual cap on Large Lasers be? My personal selection, for the record, will be 4 to keep them in line with other weapon restrictions.

Again, this will not impact pinpoint damage. An AC20 + 3 SRM6 will hit harder than 4 LL by a considerable amount, even if the LL build is otherwise viable based on the guns hit scan strengths, so I think this should be more than acceptable.

Edited by Victor Morson, 23 October 2013 - 11:00 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

5 LL stalker - it's average on cold maps a bit {Scrap} on neautral and any hot map is pure gimp {mordor = suicidal}

lasers are only effective on still targets. moving targets will mitigate dmg because of hitscan {every meta has revolved around pinpoint frontloaders so of course lasers got nerfed} lasers are low crit seeking weapons too. so ramping the heat up is like halving their ammo too. no wonder dakka mechs laugh as they can carry on with their tons of ammo whilst you either have to retreat or could end up shutting down whilst trying defend yourself. there's hardly any pure laser boats in heavies/assaults now and the only pure ones are medium laser mechs because 6 is the usual number. there's a few representatives of the missle boat family, stalkers, kintaros, catapults the odd treb, mostly lurms and odd streak mech though. there's plenty of dakka family mechs phract, jagers, BJ etc but energy boats? awesomes have had their final coffin nail, stalkers and phracts can't handle the heat when they can use other weapons so all we have is jenners, cicadas and the odd hunchback? there's a serious discrepency/ absence of the energy boat.

i'm guessing pgi thought they'd curb passing the buck from ppc boats thinking they'd go straight to laser boats and missle boats hense they got capped as well. so now we have duo ac ppc/laser builds all running the best dps over time cause anything else shuts down before them trying to match the dmg output. how long till we're all firing 1 weapon every 10 seconds? what's the point of a customisation game if the choices are becoming narrower and narrower? as void said the fun stuff is killed with the OP stuff too. ask any high league player they'll say at it's peak laser boats were 2nd place, they had no fron't load centered dmg and they ran too hot already let alone now.


btw elaborate on external program please

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 23 October 2013 - 11:38 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

If Ghost Heat is to stay, which I don't want, a limit of 3-4 seems more reasonable.

And if we have the option of removing it from some weapons, I think lasers don't need it. Lasers don't benefit as much from convergence/pinpoint precision due to their firing mechanism.

[Victor Morson]

GalaxyBluestar, on 23 October 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

btw elaborate on external program please

Most anyone running over 2 LL is using a macro to time the shots in .5 second delays to get around Ghost Heat.

I know it's legal but I hate any weapon I have to resort to external functions to utilize.

Edited by Victor Morson, 24 October 2013 - 01:18 AM.

[mike29tw]

Ghost Heat on LL is the sole reason why variants like CTF 1X and HGN 733P are objectively inferior.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Victor Morson, on 24 October 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

Most anyone running over 2 LL is using a macro to time the shots in .5 second delays to get around Ghost Heat.

I know it's legal but I hate any weapon I have to resort to external functions to utilize.

thanks for that. never use macros people torture me if i mention macros and gaming in the same sentance.
still that makes sense... for this game i suppose. tried chainfiring but found 2 by 2 group fire to be better {could still macro that} seriously is this game becoming dependant on macros now. yeah that's how backarsewards it is these days

mike29tw, on 24 October 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Ghost Heat on LL is the sole reason why variants like CTF 1X and HGN 733P are objectively inferior.

yep more mechs being made redundant more for the trash pile for the church of balance.

[Randalf Yorgen]

so narrow minded, how about asking instead if we can get ghost heat for certain situations, for example, If I put 4 LL in the same location then I should suffer ghost heat but if I spread them out across arms and torsos then the heat should disipate more normally. People just hammer away at the same square peg stuckin the same round hole with the same plastic mallet over and over again. Open your minds and dig deeper and come up with something different.

[FupDup]

Randalf Yorgen, on 24 October 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

so narrow minded, how about asking instead if we can get ghost heat for certain situations, for example, If I put 4 LL in the same location then I should suffer ghost heat but if I spread them out across arms and torsos then the heat should disipate more normally. People just hammer away at the same square peg stuckin the same round hole with the same plastic mallet over and over again. Open your minds and dig deeper and come up with something different.

What mech can hold 4 LL in the same body part?

And why does the mounting location even matter? Convergence means that they all hit the same pixel anyways.

[mike29tw]

Randalf Yorgen, on 24 October 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

so narrow minded, how about asking instead if we can get ghost heat for certain situations, for example, If I put 4 LL in the same location then I should suffer ghost heat but if I spread them out across arms and torsos then the heat should disipate more normally. People just hammer away at the same square peg stuckin the same round hole with the same plastic mallet over and over again. Open your minds and dig deeper and come up with something different.

Because Ghost Heat itself isn't convoluted enough, right?

Oh I know, I know, it should also depend on whether you are moving, and what direction you're facing. Full throttle = 1.5X ghost heat penalty, and 90 degree torso twist = 0.75X ghost heat penalty.

I can feel it. We're one step closer to perfect balance now. You people just need to open your mind.

Edited by mike29tw, 24 October 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 24 October 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

What mech can hold 4 LL in the same body part?

And why does the mounting location even matter? Convergence means that they all hit the same pixel anyways.

Though its not here yet, I know of a Charger that mounts 4 Large Lasers but has a smaller engine.

[Blacksoul1987]

I feel that 2 makes them inferior to ppc's (and even worse when you factor that ppc's can stack well with ac's) my vote was cast for 3 as a personal preference I find 3 to be a nice spot that would allow them to be more competitive with ppc ac without becoming too easy.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Hmm... I guess we got the 4P?

[Death Mallet]

Ghost heat wasn't about "fixing PPCs".

Ghost heat was about fixing rampant boating of all the weapons systems it affects.

You may not like the specifics of the mechanic. . . but the effect of it has definitely improved gameplay and build variety.

Ghost Heat needs to stay. Its fine as is.

[OneEyed Jack]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 October 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

Though its not here yet, I know of a Charger that mounts 4 Large Lasers but has a smaller engine.

The Challenger was one of my favorite pre-invasion mechs. I cut the barrels of of a (later to become) un-seen Rifleman to extend the barrels on a Charger to make one.

[IllCaesar]

I don't see too much wrong with Ghost Heat, but then again, you can say thats due to me being here for only a little over two months. I would raise the LL/ERLL/LPL limit to three or four though, certainly. I'd also add ghost heat to the UAC5 if I could, so what do I know?

[tayhimself]

Raise the limit to 3 so that they are more competitive with PPCs and ACs.

[Heffay]

FupDup, on 24 October 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

What mech can hold 4 LL in the same body part?

Hunchback?

[Heffay]

Victor Morson, on 23 October 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

So, I think we all realize now that no matter how many times we state that we dislike Ghost Heat

I don't dislike ghost heat. It's NBD.

[3rdworld]

With the increased heat on PPCs / gauss nerf, it is nearly a non issue. Lasers shouldn't have heat scale anyhow.

But then again 3 LLs only have a 3.5 heat penalty for 3. If they aren't going to drop it they certainly need to remove the stack from LLs & LPLs.

Heffay, on 24 October 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

I don't dislike ghost heat. It's NBD.

If it is NBD, than the only thing it does is lower mech customization and ruin configs that could be a valid option but aren't because of 1+1=3

Edited by 3rdworld, 24 October 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[Bront]

The LL limit is too low. They heat up enough to be restrictive already, so mounting more than 2 isn't that exciting to begin with, but it should be an option. 3 I think is a good number to bring it in line with 2 PPC.

Ghost heat on UAC5s could be problematic with their ROF, which is probably why they haven't added it, not to mention there are only 2-3 mechs that can mount more than 2 of them anyway.