51 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Roughneck45, on 26 October 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

Shadowhawk 2D2 will be the only phoenix mech to make it to the competitive scene.

JJ's + Ballistic.

Will have to wait and see if the Saber mechs can make an impact.

and why would the 5M with better JJs plus ballistic not make the cut? (don't get me wrong, 2D2 is my fave)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 26 October 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

Locust - trash, explodes when a brisk wind rolls through the battlefield
Shadowhawk - amazing, good hardpoints, fast, armored, fills many roles well
Thunderbolt - Meh, it's as big as an assault but only tonned as a heavy (poor hitboxes), can fill many roles but has meh hardpoints, I usually see them as fast brawlers
Battlemaster - Also meh, it's freaking huge and turns slowly, poor hitboxes. Can be a brawler, missile platform, or direct fire at least

[Lock Down]

Interesting

[Alex Warden]

really like the phoenix BM, it really needs to be mastered though, you can have quite a few various loadouts (well actually i would give away one or two energy slots w/o hesitation, if i can have a second missleslot ). the phoenix shawk is also nice, although i only run the shawk as lighthunter from time to time, and there i clearly prefere the 2d2...although the phoenix variant is kinda funny with 3 ssrm´s, 3 mg´s and a medpulselaser

Edited by Alex Warden, 27 October 2013 - 08:23 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alex Warden, on 27 October 2013 - 08:16 PM, said:

really like the phoenix BM, it really needs to be mastered though, you can have quite a few various loadouts (well actually i would give away one or two energy slots w/o hesitation, if i can have a second missleslot ). the phoenix shawk is also nice, although i only run the shawk as lighthunter from time to time, and there i clearly prefere the 2d2...although the phoenix variant is kinda funny with 3 ssrm´s, 3 mg´s and a medpulselaser

Yeah, the BLR is fast becoming my second fave Assault, behind only my uber-maneuverable Victors. Still playing with weapon load outs, but I think my 1S and 1G are pretty much dialed in, just trying to find the sweet spot on my 1D. Definitely more fun than my Atlases or HGNs, and a million times better than the Stalker (for me).

But the ShadowHawk...... that is just LOVE.

[Selfish]

I could see Shadowhawks becoming cheap fire support. Their SSRM 'light hunter' variants are pretty poor vs a light pack, so I'd only recommend an AC/20 2D2 if you're going to be trying to gun down lights.

I would like to say maybe the LCT 3M would see some action, but even with 5MLas + 2 AMS it's easily legged in one salvo from a Jenner. There's no reason to undercut your lights by choosing something so unreliable.

I haven't elited the TDR or BM yet, but I doubt any of them would be particularly viable. They lack JJs, while the TDR-9SE is as reliant on an SRM HSR improvement as much as every other shelved brawler. If SRMs get improved, the mech could find a place in some groups looking to brawl. Otherwise, you're passing over some powerful fire supports for them.

[MingTheMerciless]

The shadow hawks as a trio are super additions; definitely going to get them all to elite. I quite like the Battlemaster as well though a tad slow if you fit any engine below std340.

[3rdworld]

Shadow hawks, yes. In lighter tonnage drops they provide great firepower for their tonnage.

T-Bolt.... maybe. They are very tanky, it remains to be seen if their drawbacks out way that advantage. My initial thoughts is no, probably not a great choice.

Locust - Terrible
Battlemaster - inferior to the Highlander or Misery.

If the meaning of the thread, was are the phoenix mechs good at pugs. Then yeah, most preform just fine in pugs. Locust is just garbage though.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 October 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

Yeah, the BLR is fast becoming my second fave Assault, behind only my uber-maneuverable Victors. Still playing with weapon load outs, but I think my 1S and 1G are pretty much dialed in, just trying to find the sweet spot on my 1D. Definitely more fun than my Atlases or HGNs, and a million times better than the Stalker (for me).

But the ShadowHawk...... that is just LOVE.

We must have similar tastes in Assaults. I like the Victor due to its fast/manuverable nature (for an Assault). The Battlemaster has some good speed too.

I do think the Battlemaster is a bit more of a traditional Assault though. It seems to fall somewhere between a Victor and a Stalker (there might be a better comparison, but my experience with Assaults is limited).

As for the Shadowhawk, that thing is FUN. Still working on a go-to loadout I like, but overall it is my favorite of the group.

[Bishop Steiner]

Selfish, on 27 October 2013 - 10:42 PM, said:

I could see Shadowhawks becoming cheap fire support. Their SSRM 'light hunter' variants are pretty poor vs a light pack, so I'd only recommend an AC/20 2D2 if you're going to be trying to gun down lights.

I would like to say maybe the LCT 3M would see some action, but even with 5MLas + 2 AMS it's easily legged in one salvo from a Jenner. There's no reason to undercut your lights by choosing something so unreliable.

I haven't elited the TDR or BM yet, but I doubt any of them would be particularly viable. They lack JJs, while the TDR-9SE is as reliant on an SRM HSR improvement as much as every other shelved brawler. If SRMs get improved, the mech could find a place in some groups looking to brawl. Otherwise, you're passing over some powerful fire supports for them.

Then you are missing the whole beauty of the Shad.

Over-specializing is precisely what one needs to avoid. It is a generalist, and shockingly,in a game dominated by boating and overspecializing, that is where it shines.

Under-engine a Shad to pack an AC20 and any sort of decent support weapons, you strip it of it's biggest asset over the HBK or CN9, mobility. Over-engine it, to make a StreakHawk, and you lose any decent use of the ballistic, not to mention the KTO-18 will always be the better Light Hunter.

Shawks rock it best with max JJs, and XL engines between 275 and the 300 range. 2D2 loaded with 4 SSRM2, 2 MLaser and a UAC/AC10/LB-X is beyond dangerous. You stick with the group, and support. Don't fixate, but use your mobility to protect the Big Uglies from Light packs (much more effective than "Light Hunting" which tends to leave your team unsupported, and against coordinated Lights, a dead Medium), and adding your fire power to containing any salients, or lop off an over extended foe. Shoot, then scoot. If you get the kill great, if not, oh well, as long as the team gets the win. The Shawk is possibly the most useful "team mech" I have found because it does so many things well with a balanced build, whereas so many mechs feel like a giant compromise

But hey , what do I know? I only have a 4.7 KDr, and average 650 damage and 3-4 kills with my 2D2. (My 2 LLaser/ AC10 toting 5M Super-Enforcer" is starting to catch up also. Did a nice solo cap defense the other night, where I fought off and killed 4 out of 6 defenders, 712 damage before succumbing. And winning the match for my team).

Shawks are the perfect all purpose mech, just like they were in TT. Glad to see one finally translate to perfection.

MeiSooHaityu, on 28 October 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

We must have similar tastes in Assaults. I like the Victor due to its fast/manuverable nature (for an Assault). The Battlemaster has some good speed too.

I do think the Battlemaster is a bit more of a traditional Assault though. It seems to fall somewhere between a Victor and a Stalker (there might be a better comparison, but my experience with Assaults is limited).

As for the Shadowhawk, that thing is FUN. Still working on a go-to loadout I like, but overall it is my favorite of the group.

Oh, I gots some loadouts for you ta try........ lol.


And yeah, the BLR is more traditional, but it's fast traditional, and with better hardpoints and Hitboxes. then say the AWS-9M or Pretty Baby. But it's not a slug like the Stalker, Atlas or HGNs.

[Roughneck45]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 October 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

and why would the 5M with better JJs plus ballistic not make the cut? (don't get me wrong, 2D2 is my fave)

Because of the energy hardpoint placement.

2D2 lets you stack everything on one side, so you can use the other as a shield. The other variants make you put the PPC and AC20 on opposite sides, so you are going to lose one or the other for sure.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 October 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

And yeah, the BLR is more traditional, but it's fast traditional, and with better hardpoints and Hitboxes. then say the AWS-9M or Pretty Baby. But it's not a slug like the Stalker, Atlas or HGNs.

Yea..Poor Awesome, just can't live up to the name (in MWO).

As for a slug like the Stalker, that is why my Misery collects dust. I just can't stand going that slow. I need an Assault that is more like a slightly slower, more armored Heavy. That is why I like the Victor and the Battlemaster. Any Assault that is a tank, just drives me crazy.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 28 October 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roughneck45, on 28 October 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

Because of the energy hardpoint placement.

2D2 lets you stack everything on one side, so you can use the other as a shield. The other variants make you put the PPC and AC20 on opposite sides, so you are going to lose one or the other for sure.

Never been a fan of lopsiding mechs. Because against good comp (and I know you face good comp bro!) the moment you turn to shoot is when I hold off for, then I shoot your weapon side. You can't really use your guns without facing me. And once that side goes, you aren't even a useful zombie, like the Wang can be.

IDK, different tactics and playstyles, but I find patience usually nets me a win over one-sided mechs. I rather like having my weapons spread. But more to the point on SHAWKs, is they tank XLs so well, (I have 1 ST death in 150 + matches) that if I lose I side, I die anyhow. No reaon to my mind to gimp it with slow standards ad ro light armor or lack of support weapons.

And if you have speed, like my Shawks do, it's very easy to spread the damage. I tank better than in my Cents in my XL Shawk. I find slow mediums to be dead mediums no matter how nice of guns they pack.

just my 2cts.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 28 October 2013 - 07:59 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 October 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

Never been a fan of lopsiding mechs. Because against good comp (and I know you face good comp bro!) the moment you turn to shoot is when I hold off for, then I shoot your weapon side. You can't really use your guns without facing me. And once that side goes, you aren't even a useful zombie, like the Wang can be.

IDK, different tactics and playstyles, but I find patience usually nets me a win over one-sided mechs. I rather like having my weapons spread. But more to the point on SHAWKs, is they tank XLs so well, (I have 1 ST death in 150 + matches) that if I lose I side, I die anyhow. No reaon to my mind to gimp it with slow standards ad ro light armor or lack of support weapons.

And if you have speed, like my Shawks do, it's very easy to spread the damage. I tank better than in my Cents in my XL Shawk. I find slow mediums to be dead mediums no matter how nice of guns they pack.

just my 2cts.

Yeah it's just a play style difference. I never run XL's and always stack sides when I can. Works well for me.

[MeiSooHaityu]

When it comes to the Phoenix variant of the Shadowhawk (2H), I "sort of" zombie it.

I think a real zombie has a STD engine and CT weapons. Still, on that Shadowhawk, I leave the one energy slot open and instead use the missiles and ballistics. That way I can take armor out of the arms as necessary.

A dual A/C5 or an UA/C5 and A/C2 build with 3 Streaks or 3SRMs (like 2 SRM4s and a SRM2) seems to work well for me.

I figure, sacrifice the energy weapon for the ballistic and keep the SRMs for short range if you get in trouble. Seems to work pretty descent.

The other Shadowhawk variants, I use the energy hardpoints.

P.S. Just checked my mech stats to get the right designation for the Phoenix Shadowhawk and...DARN, all my Shadowhawks are 2+ KDR. I have been doing well with that mech.

Now if only I could get over 1 KDR with my Locusts

[Selfish]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 October 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Then you are missing the whole beauty of the Shad.

Over-specializing is precisely what one needs to avoid. It is a generalist, and shockingly,in a game dominated by boating and overspecializing, that is where it shines.

But hey , what do I know? I only have a 4.7 KDr, and average 650 damage and 3-4 kills with my 2D2. (My 2 LLaser/ AC10 toting 5M Super-Enforcer" is starting to catch up also. Did a nice solo cap defense the other night, where I fought off and killed 4 out of 6 defenders, 712 damage before succumbing. And winning the match for my team).

The OP asked for competitive variants, not pug stomping. If you want to run pug you can do anything you like and be successful. The streak+low AC SHDs don't work well in a competitive environment as they're primarily light hunters that will be devoured by lights. The only time you'll gear for light hunting in a SHD is on very light drops where groups will take as many AC/20s as they can to down lights.

[Bishop Steiner]

Selfish, on 28 October 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

The OP asked for competitive variants, not pug stomping. If you want to run pug you can do anything you like and be successful. The streak+low AC SHDs don't work well in a competitive environment as they're primarily light hunters that will be devoured by lights. The only time you'll gear for light hunting in a SHD is on very light drops where groups will take as many AC/20s as they can to down lights.

Lol.

Beautifully incorrect. But keep telling yourself that. My specific build is actually the epitome of a team build. I never light hunt, whether in Comp12 or PUG. Small thinking dude, small thinking. It's what makes 12 man so laughable.

Also the elitist "you can succeed running whatever in PUG". Oh the ignorance. Most 12 man builds actually are mediocre at best in PUGs, and vice versa. Two totally differing role sets.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 28 October 2013 - 01:00 PM.

[Roughneck45]

Bishop Steiner, on 28 October 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

It's what makes 12 man so laughable.

?

[Hellcat420]

Vodrin Thales, on 25 October 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Not if they want to run 4 man pre-mades. PGI has already stated that their will be max weights for 2,3, and 4 man groups. More than one Assault mech per pre-made will not be possible unless the other two mechs are Locusts.

except for there are already ways around that.

[Fate 6]

Roughneck45, on 26 October 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

Shadowhawk 2D2 will be the only phoenix mech to make it to the competitive scene. JJ's + Ballistic. Will have to wait and see if the Saber mechs can make an impact.

The location of the ballistic high up will really make it hard for the Saber mechs to outdo it in a competitive sense (unless they just have godlike hitboxes similar to the Centurion).

I'm guessing we'll only see 2D2s