121 replies to this topic

[aniviron]

Wispsy, on 25 October 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

Why must your fun, being using a balanced team (which ironically is something I find most fun in a game) must be so different from my fun of wanting to win and not lose...


I want to be able to take a medium mech into Attack/Defend so I can help my clan get/keep an important planet and I do not want to essentially put them a man down for this by halving my armour and weapons whilst moving at relatively similar speeds.




PEOPLE KEEP SAYING TONNAGE LIMITS WILL SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! No...... why does tonnage limit solve the problems and not just force half the players into less useful classes and mechs they are not familiar with to then get slaughtered by the mechs with twice their weaponry and twice their armour. Who are you to decide you get to be the big boy on the field and everybody else has to be half as strong as you because "tonnage limits balance the game". Do YOU want to be the light mech in an all out poptart battle waiting for the end to come because your unit has too many Assault Pilots and nobody wants to play lights or mediums because, even though you have to bring some, they still barely contribute compared to others.

[/size]

Yes except if you are defending...then you automatically win every game, because they cannot attack you and they have a time limit in which to kill you or fail...

You're a good poster, I like you.

Just keep saying the things you're saying, it saves me the trouble of having to type up the same things.

[Joseph Mallan]

aniviron, on 25 October 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

You're a good poster, I like you.

He is a good poster. I 100% agree with that. Even if I don't agree with him on this point, he has my respect.

[Krivvan]

DaZur, on 25 October 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

[/size]
In short, I do not buy into the "you are handicapping your team if you don't adhere to the top-tier meta" premise.

I pilot fast (Striker) heavies and mediums. Do I think I'm handicapping my team?... Absolutely not. Do I have to work a little harder because of my mech / loadout decisions... absolutely. Ultimately I find the challenge of winning / doing well with a less-than optimum build the most rewarding aspect of play, win or lose...

I find nothing enjoyable in placating a meta so my peers believe I'm vested in the goal of winning...

You may have more fun with it. That's fine. But you are still handicapping your team.

Say your team was 100% following the meta. 7 jump snipers and 4 lights for example. If you were running around as a Heavy striker then you can't contribute as well as you could have were you a jump sniper.

You can make it work. You can be effective in it. But that doesn't stop the fact that you could've been more effective in something else.

[Khobai]

Quote

PEOPLE KEEP SAYING TONNAGE LIMITS WILL SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS! No...... why does tonnage limit solve the problems and not just force half the players into less useful classes and mechs they are not familiar with to then get slaughtered by the mechs with twice their weaponry and twice their armour

Then dont group up with people that are bad in mediums. When you play in a group you get to CHOOSE who you play with. So play with people who can handle mediums.

Now dont get me wrong, I think tonnage limits are completely dumb for pretty much all the reasons you said, but PGI has made it abundantly clear that theyre going to do what they want and not listen to their players. The reality is drop limits are happening whether we like it or not. Mediums will still be worse than Heavies in Attack/Defend but your team will be forced to take Mediums regardless.

Edited by Khobai, 25 October 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[Wispsy]

Khobai, on 25 October 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Then dont group up with people that are bad in mediums.

Everybody is bad in a medium compared to a highlander...that is my point?

[Joseph Mallan]

Krivvan, on 25 October 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

You may have more fun with it. That's fine. But you are still handicapping your team.

Say your team was 100% following the meta. 7 jump snipers and 4 lights for example. If you were running around as a Heavy striker then you can't contribute as well as you could have were you a jump sniper.

You can make it work. You can be effective in it. But that doesn't stop the fact that you could've been more effective in something else.

Do you know he is handicapping his team? Honestly, some folks just assume they know how much a Mech brings to the fight without knowing the facts. I know a player, that playes non optimized builds and slaughter all comers. has a double digit KDR and does it from a Mech with LB-X and Pulse lasers!

Wispsy, on 25 October 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Everybody is bad in a medium compared to a highlander...that is my point?

Then your point is just wrong. Its the pilot that makes the weapon not the other way around.

[Charons Little Helper]

Wispsy, on 25 October 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

Do YOU want to be the light mech in an all out poptart battle waiting for the end to come because your unit has too many Assault Pilots and nobody wants to play lights or mediums because, even though you have to bring some, they still barely contribute compared to others.

Yes - I enjoy the idea of taking up less of the team's resources but still being effective. And with tonnage limits - each team will have maybe 2-3 assaults. I don't think that only 2-3 of them will totally dominate a 12v12 game.

[Khobai]

Quote

Everybody is bad in a medium compared to a highlander...that is my point?

Yes but when everybody is forced into mediums that will change. Because mediums will no longer be fighting uphill battles against multiple heavies/assaults but rather fighting against other mediums and lights.

[Vodrin Thales]

Wispsy, on 25 October 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Yes...ok....so....the enemy team is entrenched in their base. They have to defend it so they are not going to leave, you have to get in there and attack it. What use is a light mech who is not made for combat? Flank what? Scout what? They will be entrenched in a defensive position around their base...You think it is good to send in Cavalry to a line of Heavy Pikemen which is what sending lights into assaults will be...



Attack/Defend conquest style?

We really have to see how they construct this before we know. In some of the RPG online games I have played in the past, the attacking team had to take and hold several separate points in order to take a zone, so yes it may play something like conquest.

It will depend on what it takes to actually take the objective, and how many different approaches to the objectives. On top of that it is very likely that there will be tonnage limits before CW goes live making this point somewhat moot. The real answer to you initial question may simply be" because we don't have the tonnage available to take a heavier mech".

I think what you are really getting at is the fact that mediums and, to a lesser extent, light mechs are inferior combat options to heavy and assault mechs and offer no significant advantages to heavier mechs. This is largely true, but tonnage limits will dictate that assaults and heavies can only make up a small portion of the drop.

[Wispsy]

Or you could change some mechs pilot trees to remove the twist and turning and add damage reduction or increased armour...that would be a large step towards giving everybody a combat role.

[Prezimonto]

You balance the defense with either multiple objectives to defend(supply depot and communications tower and mech repair bay), or by giving the defending team their own attack objective like the enemy drop ship.

edit:
Or do both and make my day!

Edited by Prezimonto, 25 October 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 25 October 2013 - 07:52 AM, said:

Or you could change some mechs pilot trees to remove the twist and turning and add damage reduction or increased armour...that would be a large step towards giving everybody a combat role.

The only problem I see with this is it fits more with a Heavy or Assault more than a Medium or Light. It is a good idea, just needs to be implemented correctly.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 October 2013 - 07:57 AM.

[Krivvan]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

I know a player, that playes non optimized builds and slaughter all comers. has a double digit KDR and does it from a Mech with LB-X and Pulse lasers!

And yet could do it better in an optimized build.

I can run a Locust every match and get amazing stats with it and carry games with it and do amazing with it. That doesn't mean I'm not handicapping the team (or myself).

[Joseph Mallan]

Krivvan, on 25 October 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

And yet could do it better in an optimized build.

I can run a Locust every match and get amazing stats with it and carry games with it and do amazing with it. That doesn't mean I'm not handicapping the team (or myself).

Does he need to do it any better? If you are doing amazing in a Locust and suck eggs in anything else, then you are doing your team a favor piloting a Locust.

[Krivvan]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Does he need to do it any better? If you are doing amazing in a Locust and suck eggs in anything else, then you are doing your team a favor piloting a Locust.

I'm not really considering pug games, since anything goes in those. If you're playing a league/tournament game on a team and you refuse to use a mech you could do better in so you can pilot the Locust instead, are you really doing your team a favour?

[3rdworld]

Alistair Winter, on 25 October 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

I think a lot of fans are expecting to see some kind of scenario with a fortress under siege, where the defenders are aided by AI-controlled turrets and the attackers need to blast their way through reinforced gates to win the battle.

My dreams. PGI why u crush dem?

[Joseph Mallan]

Krivvan, on 25 October 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

I'm not really considering pug games, since anything goes in those. If you're playing a league/tournament game on a team and you refuse to use a mech you could do better in so you can pilot the Locust instead, are you really doing your team a favour?

Would 600+ damage, 3 kills, 4 assists be a favor? Seriously if you are having success in a build an it isn't the norm for tournament players, its the pilots success that matters not coaches wants.

[Krivvan]

Alistair Winter, on 25 October 2013 - 02:39 AM, said:

I think a lot of fans are expecting to see some kind of scenario with a fortress under siege, where the defenders are aided by AI-controlled turrets and the attackers need to blast their way through reinforced gates to win the battle.

While that may sound cool on paper, and may be cool for the first couple of games, I'd think that'd be horrible from a gameplay perspective.

I'd rather have something like Assault than that really.

[Khobai]

Quote

Or you could change some mechs pilot trees to remove the twist and turning and add damage reduction or increased armour...that would be a large step towards giving everybody a combat role.

Everybody shouldnt have a combat role. The game needs other roles besides combat.

[Krivvan]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Would 600+ damage, 3 kills, 4 assists be a favor? Seriously if you are having success in a build an it isn't the norm for tournament players, its the pilots success that matters not coaches wants.

But you're still handicapping your team. You are a part of your team. You could've done far better. You are handicapping it if you play a bad build. You can still carry the team. You can still cause your team to win. But that doesn't mean you didn't handicap it.