1250 replies to this topic

[blackcatf]

Basically, it jammed advanced electronics (except for Streak SRMs, IIRC)...it would counter any Artemis, active NARC beacons, C3 (and later the C3i) network, and jam any Beagle Active Probes within its area of effect. That was pretty much it. Also, the unit with a jammed BAP would be aware of the jamming. In later advances in the level 2 rules, Stealth Armor required Guardian ECM to be effective, as well.

[LoPanShui]

I'm still trying to figure out the TAG in TT. I only have the newest rulebook, and all it says is "Designates a target." And I'm like, "For what?"

I assume artillery, but I know you can spot for LRM Indirect Fire without needing a TAG, so I'm kinda confused.

Also, what's up with the C3?

Edited by LoPanShui, 12 May 2014 - 12:05 PM.

[MagResPolarBear]

Has something about C3 changed? Last time I looked it up, it sounded like C3 basically allowed you to use spotters for direct-fire weapons. E.g., you have a 'Mech with a PPC standing miles away from the target and a scout really close, and if both are linked to the C3 network, then the PPC 'Mech still has a high chance to hit because its targeting is as good as if it was standing where the scout is.

Edited by MagResPolarBear, 15 May 2014 - 10:58 PM.

[LoPanShui]

Aaaaaaah. That's tricksy. I like it. I've never used a match that had C3 in it is the thing. Despite my love of Battletech I've played surprisingly few games, and only one that wasn't at the 3025 Tech Rules Level.

[blackcatf]

To sum up, Guardian ECM in MWO acts more like the level 3 Angel ECM in the advanced TT rules, while our LRMs act a bit more like more expensive Semi-Guided LRMs (though I don't think the Semi-Guided variety gain any benefit from NARC beacons)

LoPanShui, on 12 May 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

I'm still trying to figure out the TAG in TT. I only have the newest rulebook, and all it says is "Designates a target." And I'm like, "For what?"

I assume artillery, but I know you can spot for LRM Indirect Fire without needing a TAG, so I'm kinda confused.

Also, what's up with the C3?

Yes, originally TAG was only useful for designating targets for compatable Arrow IV artillery missiles, but the technology was adapted for "Semi-Guided LRMs" that the FWL introduced in 3057. I never used them in TT, so can't really speak to their effectiveness. There are rules for indirect fire that make it possible to fire LRMs without the launch platform having line of sight, but IIRC correctly, the spotter can't fire any weapons, range is still treated as if from the launch platform, and you have to use to-hit modifiers from both spotter & launch platform (terrain and movement), so the modifiers added up pretty damned quickly.

I actually liked standard Arrow IV missiles for onboard, direct fire weapons better than TAG enabled ones...20 points of damage to all targets in the hex it hits and 10 points to targets in adjacent hexes was brutal...the TAG enabled ones only did 20 damage to the target and 5 damage to other targets in the same hex (plus, no damage if your spotter missed his TAG roll). Further, for non-TAG Arrow IV missiles, you were aiming at a hex, not the 'mech, so you could kind of negate the target movement (though there's a standard +5 modifier for using the artillery piece this way).

MagResPolarBear, on 12 May 2014 - 11:58 PM, said:

Has something about C3 changed? Last time I looked it up, it sounded like C3 basically allowed you to use spotters for direct-fire weapons. E.g., you have a 'Mech with a PPC standing miles away from the target and a scout really close, and if both are linked to the C3 network, then the PPC 'Mech still has a high chance to hit because it's targeting is as good as if it was standing where the scout is.

I don't think there's been any change to how C3 works, I was just pointing out that Guardian ECM counters it. C3 was kind of like indirect fire for LRMs but both units had to have line of sight on the target...it basically let any unit on the C3 network use the range of the most optimal platform on the network, though I think it was still modified for intervening terrain for both platforms (hence, my Kintaro at 5 hexes with an unobstructed view may have been a better C3 spotter than the Panther 3 hexes from the target but with two light woods hexes in between them). I think min and max ranges were still calculated from the firing platform, not the spotter, so you can't be 30 hexes away and fire a PPC (or AC/20) like you were 5 hexes away.

C3i was just the ComGuard version...no master unit but only 6 units could be linked together instead of up to 12 the way the DCMS could...also, each C3i was heavier & bulkier than a C3 Slave unit.

[LoPanShui]

There's also a CEWS, which is one of the reasons I love the Tiburon. Works as a Beagle and ECM at the same time while only taking up the weight and slots of one.

Since it's dropping soon, can I talk about clan stuff for a second?

There's only one clan that I really like, and I mean adore. And it's Diamond Shark. I fell in love with those guys when I was reading TRO: 3058 and stumbled upon the Piranha. It was everything I ever wanted out of a 'Mech and more. It's been my favorite since I was 15. It's a Diamond Shark exclusive 'Mech, so I decided that Diamond Shark were my bros. This was the coolest clan, they had to be. They had the coolest 'Mech, after all.

So I look up Diamond Shark on Sarna.net back in like 2001 and I'm even more sold. I love these guys. Their merchant class is up there with their warriors, and the only reason they invaded the Inner Sphere was to open up new markets. They didn't want territory; they wanted customers. I can get behind that!

They used to be Clan Sea Fox, but they pissed off the Ice Ravens at some point, so the Ice Ravens genetically engineer a special breed of shark to hunt and kill all the sea foxes in the oceans, destroying their rival's totem animal. Any other clan would have been absolutely destroyed by this. Sea Fox? They said, "Wow, that diamond shark thing the Ice Ravens made is a lot better than the sea foxes were." And so they changed their name to Diamond Shark. That story put them in my heart forever. Adaptable, nonplussed, cool mother monkeys.

So I'm reading 3145 stuff now, and they're back to being Sea Fox after reintroducing the species onto several more worlds and watching it flourish where the highly specialized diamond shark has failed. They only hold three planets in the entire Inner Sphere and have no contact with the home worlds, but they don't care. Their whole clan are in massive nomadic fleets that travel around the galaxy as merchant traders, keeping the Dark Age from being truly isolated. While everyone else is engaging in war and power grabs Clan Sea Fox just wanders around buying and selling supplies to keep isolated and poor planets from collapsing entirely while also maintaining a healthy profit margin.

They're not the best warriors, and they never will be, but they're always on the cutting edge of technology and when demand arises they're the ones with the supply. Combine this with the three coolest 'Mechs around, the Piranha, Solitaire and the Tiberon* and Clan Diamond Shark are by far my favorite clan.

What about you guys?

*Please note LoPan thinks the coolest 'Mechs around are all fast lights with ridiculous firepower and weak armor.

Edited by LoPanShui, 13 May 2014 - 12:09 PM.

[blackcatf]

The Watchdog EWS was one of my favorite pieces of level 3 tech in the 3050's. Apparently it became "level 2" later on, but I stopped following the timeline shortly after the Smoke Jaguars were wiped out.

Of the invading Clans, I liked Clan Wolf. By the time I learned of the Clan invasion, Phelan Ward (Kell, whatever) was already a Khan, along with Natasha Kerensky, so the odds were in their favor, but I liked their attitude compared to that of the other Clans. As a result, early on, if I was playing a Clanner, I was a Warden. There wasn't much in the novels about the Diamond Sharks, so I didn't learn much about them until later.

Once the Crusader and Warden Clan Field Manuals came out, I found myself gravitating toward Clan Star Adder. I even went as far as to create a general outline for a couple of stories following the life of a young Star Adder mechwarrior that lead to his appointment as the Galaxy Commander in charge of a new Galaxy based on a couple of scraps in the history of the Clan in the Crusader manual and the Clan Burrock Absorption.

[MagResPolarBear]

Seeing as I was generally rather late to BT universe in general and have never played the TT game, I'm afraid my knowledge of the clans is fairly limited. I really liked the Blood Asp in 'Mech Commander 2; I believe that's a Star Adder design?

[LoPanShui]

I'm definitely a fan of Warden Clans, since I always thought of Clans as "The Badguys". Crusaders are lunatic fascists, for the most part, as far as I was ever concerned.

Star Adders are pretty legit though. Crusaders who appreciate their lower classes and support togetherness and unity over competition are pretty rare.

Let's be fair though, the Blood Asp is a legit BattleMech that's scary against anyone or anything.

[MagResPolarBear]

I just like the idea of walking around with a gaussrifle on each shoulder. Predator, eat your heart out!

[ruagoof2]

Just wanted to pop in to welcome all the new recruits that have enlisted with the 201st and extend an invitation to those pilots that are still undecided on where to lay a stake...the 201st is open to veterans and new players alike...

See you on planet...

[LoPanShui]

Sometimes I feel like Goof disapproves of our thread bumping methods.

[ruagoof2]

C'mon LoPan, Don't mean to give you a complex...you know I love you man...

It's just too much to jump into the middle of these sessions, as I am not as regular of a poster on this forum.


Besides, who would you have to pick on if I didn't stop by every once in a while?

Edited by ruagoof2, 15 May 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[blackcatf]

LoPanShui, on 15 May 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Sometimes I feel like Goof disapproves of our thread bumping methods.

I'm quite certain I have no idea what you're talking about, LoPan. Here I thought we were just having deep, meaningful conversations.

Edited by blackcatf, 15 May 2014 - 02:16 PM.

[LoPanShui]

Yes. I have never artificially bumped this thread ever in a regular and timely manner. Never ever.

I like the Commando. It should be better.

[blackcatf]

MagResPolarBear, on 14 May 2014 - 12:50 AM, said:

Seeing as I was generally rather late to BT universe in general and have never played the TT game, I'm afraid my knowledge of the clans is fairly limited. I really liked the Blood Asp in 'Mech Commander 2; I believe that's a Star Adder design?

LoPanShui, on 14 May 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

Star Adders are pretty legit though. Crusaders who appreciate their lower classes and support togetherness and unity over competition are pretty rare.

Let's be fair though, the Blood Asp is a legit BattleMech that's scary against anyone or anything.

Yes. Although, I think my favorite configuration was the D (the one with all the tiny ATM launchers), though I don't think I ever figured out the right ammo load for it, since it only had 2 tons of ammo, I could only mount 2 of the 3 ammo types. In the TT, as in MWO, I prefer designs with jump jets (I'm also a fan of Clan targetting computers), so I gravitated toward the A and D configs, but the Primary was pretty sweet, too.

LoPanShui, on 15 May 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

Yes. I have never artificially bumped this thread ever in a regular and timely manner. Never ever.

I like the Commando. It should be better.

Okay. What should we do to improve it?

[MagResPolarBear]

LoPanShui, on 15 May 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Sometimes I feel like Goof disapproves of our thread bumping methods.

He's just trying to keep us on the straight and narrow. It's not an easy job, but we trust ol' Goof with it

LoPanShui, on 15 May 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

I like the Commando. It should be better.

Good lord, don't even get me started on those walking coffins. They're a bad omen, I tell you! If there's one on my team, I'm probably going to die this match. If there's one in my LANCE, it's probably going to GET me killed this match. And if there's one on the enemy team, then it's either going to show up and harass me to death while my team twiddles their thumbs, or half the PUGs will go play "chase the squirrel" across the entire map while my lance gets flattened by the 11 other guys on red team. If you ever see a Commando, avoid that walking death sentence at all costs!

[blackcatf]

MagResPolarBear, on 15 May 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

He's just trying to keep us on the straight and narrow. It's not an easy job, but we trust ol' Goof with it

Something has gone terribly, horribly wrong.

As for your feelings on the Commando, are you sure they're not a bit strong? I mean, the Commando's just this 'mech, you know?

I mean, sure it's light, not particularly fast compared to the other lights, and can't carry much armor...
"Do you have a point?"
You know, you'd think I would.

[MagResPolarBear]

blackcatf, on 16 May 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

As for your feelings on the Commando, are you sure they're not a bit strong?

Well yes, but it gives me more to write than "it's a light 'Mech, I've never really played one and I don't intend to any time soon "

[LoPanShui]

Commandos can be fun, but man. Their whole point is they have a really high damage to weight ratio and have good speed. Not much else in the pre-clan timeline can pull a 1:1 Damage to Weight.

Commando: 25 Alpha : 25 Tons.
Jenner: 28 Alpha : 35 Tons.
Raven: 22 Alpha : 35 Tons.
Spider: 10 Alpha : 30 Tons.
Locust: 9 Alpha : 20 Tons.
Firestarter: 22 Alpha : 35 Tons.

Cicada: 13 Alpha : 40 Tons
Shadow Hawk: 19 Alpha : 55 Tons
Hunchback: 33 Alpha : 50 Tons

Cataphract: 40 Alpha : 70 Tons

Banshee-3S: 68 Alpha : 95 Tons.

In MWO, where you can jam 6 mediums onto a Jenner, it's a lot harder for missile toting light strikers to do their duty without getting really outclassed.

Edited by LoPanShui, 16 May 2014 - 12:27 PM.