1089 replies to this topic

[Cattra Kell]

Seth, on 29 November 2011 - 11:21 AM, said:

Don't me wrong, the game looks old. Vengeance came out 12 years ago I believe. I just wish you guys had been able to play MW4 like I have. I've played in planetary leagues that used stock mechs (and stock variants... looking at you VnR and BTU leagues), thought the hard point system was, on balance, superior to the full omni system of MW3, and played much more than plain Team Destruction. The multiplayer experience of Mechwarrior 4 has been my favorite by far.

Aye and what our good friend Jock said is true.
I did begin to say something but due to time it kind of got cut off. I sadly never got to play MechWarrior 3 in its prime and only long after (so singleplayer). My first real mechwarrior game was 2 when I was very young (I still got the CD's somewhere) and the next was when I was still a young Teen when mech 4 came out. I loved mech 4's singleplayer but hated the multiplayer due to boats, sniping and poptarts and often played in only puretech, which even still was assault dominated. Due to my age at the time league clans, or the serious ones at the time, wouldn't have it even though I played pretty well (my cauldron born was a monster). I guess that is one of the things that left the taste of metal in my mouth.

Since then I have gone back with the MekTek mods and played and enjoyed the game but still find myself constantly going to puretech servers because of the older problems such as poptarts and third person advantages. (in a puretech in MekTek I can brawl with my Centurion against heavies, good fun!)

I guess its not so much that the others *hate* mektek but rather they felt it got dumb down to the game previous to it. Just my take on it. Hope that helps Seth!

Now to address the next problem:

Cavadus, on 29 November 2011 - 08:04 AM, said:

...they were wrong. And no MW game is ever going to simulate the dexterity of TT battlemechs. They could pretty much move or do anything a human can do as long as they had the parts (hands, et cetera). In TT an Atlas can flip the enemy the bird while kicking it in the crotch.

@ Seth: Yeah, ragging on Mw4's maps while extolling Mw3's was another thing turning me off from this podcast. Mw4's maps were actually varied, Mw3's were the just same thing over and over. Mw3 didn't even feature any fully urban terrain. I'd argue that even Mw2's maps were superior to 3's.

Now Cavadus, we know that the Mechwarrior games will never have arms like in the TT and that's not what they were saying, or at least trying to say. I knew that the mechs had move able arms but even then it hardly got used because it was highly impractical and often better to rotate your entire torso so all your weapons would hit rather then those just on the one arm. Another problem is that the arms were still locked in 90 degree straight ahead positions (or at least my experience was in puretech) meaning sure you moved your arm left but it never was able to move weapon pods up or down.
In mechwarrior 3 the floating reticle also moved the mechs arms up and down as well as left and right. I think that is what they meant by freedom of arm movement or that is what I took from it and I agree completely with that.

As for the maps and terrain I still found a lot of the maps very flat and open. There were a few that peaked, but often the peaks overlooked a large open plane.
As for the urban maps I said that I did like the ones in mech 4 but in MW:O I would like to see some variation between them an not just cookie cutter city blocks and large towers, maybe a housing section on the outskirts of town and not just waist high or above square buildings for the city. I just found the cities all looked the same and in most cases many of them also had either a park or a spaceport in the centre which was the large and open area of the map, something else I said bugged me a bit.

As for the others I cannot speak for but I was commenting how I would like to see more variation in the terrain and in the urban environmental settings then what we got in mech 4. I will try and be more clear on that in the future.

Edited by Cattra Kell, 29 November 2011 - 01:05 PM.

[phelanjkell]

Cavadus, on 29 November 2011 - 08:04 AM, said:

...they were wrong. And no MW game is ever going to simulate the dexterity of TT battlemechs. They could pretty much move or do anything a human can do as long as they had the parts (hands, et cetera). In TT an Atlas can flip the enemy the bird while kicking it in the crotch.

And I admitted to being wrong about that particular game mechanic, we are all human are we not? At no point in time during any of these Podcasts has the crew stated their stated comments were the end all be all answers, opinions, thoughts, ideas. This is a Podcast, a live one at that. People slip up, mess up and ***** up. But admitting you messed up should be valued. To not listen to a Podcast purely due to one of those slip ups, well I won't lose a minute of sleep especially when I do not mind correcting my statement via forums.

Quote

@ Seth: Yeah, ragging on Mw4's maps while extolling Mw3's was another thing turning me off from this podcast. Mw4's maps were actually varied; Mw3's were the just same thing over and over. Mw3 didn't even feature any fully urban terrain. I'd argue that even Mw2's maps were superior to 3's.

No one was 'ragging' on MW4/Maps. It was comments and observations about one's perspective on the game, its limitations, mechanics etc...

Please for future reference, unless you hear someone on the Podcast say "MW4 sucked, hands down horrible... it was like MA," they probably were not putting it down. I played MW4 for years as with most of those reading the forums.

Comparing two games to each other is unfair in itself, but looking at a old iteration and a new one is ok, as long as it’s done without malice. To clarify, MW3 was very flat when it comes to terrain. MW4 was a step up in the heightmaps/terrain but it did lack allot of details; but to be fair engines of the time were not very powerful. MW3 had things I liked and disliked, same for MW4. Its hard as well when you have two separate developing teams.

Again, and correct me if I am wrong, we have never been 'trashing' any MW4 game of the past. Making observations and positive/negative criticisms of some of the gameplay is just to put emphasis on what we would like to see fixed or enhanced in future installments.

And this is why we are asking for your feedback, let us know what you think, like, dislike or want to hear.
Cavadus, I do appreciate you taking the time to point out a few things. But please in the future listen with a positive outlook on things, because that is what we are intending!!

[Gaius Cavadus]

Cattra Kell, on 29 November 2011 - 01:01 PM, said:

Another problem is that the arms were still locked in 90 degree straight ahead positions (or at least my experience was in puretech) meaning sure you moved your arm left but it never was able to move weapon pods up or down.

Still wrong. If you flipped your arms to the side your normal torso pitch controls would point your arms up or down.

/sigh

Edit: Not to mention that if you switched to the "down" camera view your arms would point down so you could fire at stuff below you.

Edited by Cavadus, 29 November 2011 - 02:19 PM.

[Cattra Kell]

Cavadus, on 29 November 2011 - 02:06 PM, said:

Still wrong. If you flipped your arms to the side your normal torso pitch controls would point your arms up or down.

/sigh

Actually I'm still right. What you say does work but it means you have to move your torso up and down meaning your arms are are locked in at the 90 degree and able to move freely. Mech 3 since you had the floating reticle which allowed your weapon pods to be able to move without you having to move your torso at all.

*edit in* /sigh²

Edited by Cattra Kell, 29 November 2011 - 02:16 PM.

[Gaius Cavadus]

Cattra Kell, on 29 November 2011 - 02:14 PM, said:

Actually I'm still right. What you say does work but it means you have to move your torso up and down meaning your arms are are locked in at the 90 degree and able to move freely. Mech 3 since you had the floating reticle which allowed your weapon pods to be able to move without you having to move your torso at all. *edit in* /sigh²

Nope, when your sidelooking it's your arm that moves up and down, not the torso.

[Cattra Kell]

Cavadus, on 29 November 2011 - 02:20 PM, said:

Nope, when your sidelooking it's your arm that moves up and down, not the torso.

Actually it does. Might wana hop in game and check on that. Just did it to four mechs, all of them when looking left and I looked up and down the mech also shifted up and down not just the weapon pods.

[Gaius Cavadus]

Cattra Kell, on 29 November 2011 - 02:26 PM, said:

Actually it does. Might wana hop in game and check on that. Just did it to four mechs, all of them when looking left and I looked up and down the mech also shifted up and down not just the weapon pods.

Edit: Here's a pair of screenshots I just took in Mw4. The arm appears to be bending, no?

Edited by Cavadus, 29 November 2011 - 02:40 PM.

[Cattra Kell]

Cavadus, on 29 November 2011 - 02:28 PM, said:

Edit: Here's a pair of screenshots I just took in Mw4. The arm appears to be bending, no?

and here is a video

Edited by Cattra Kell, 29 November 2011 - 02:58 PM.

[Seth]

Cattra Kell, on 29 November 2011 - 01:01 PM, said:

Since then I have gone back with the MekTek mods and played and enjoyed the game but still find myself constantly going to puretech servers because of the older problems such as poptarts and third person advantages. (in a puretech in MekTek I can brawl with my Centurion against heavies, good fun!)

If you still have the game installed, jump onto the Sunder II server tonight around 9EST. It's a mission play server. You'll see quite a few assault mechs defending the objective building, but you'll also see scouts looking for attackers, and fast medium and heavies trying to kill the defenders buildings or dropships. I played that game type alone for the last two years and loved it because it actually required team coordination. It's also a FFP/puretech server to boot.

[Cattra Kell]

Seth, on 29 November 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

If you still have the game installed, jump onto the Sunder II server tonight around 9EST. It's a mission play server. You'll see quite a few assault mechs defending the objective building, but you'll also see scouts looking for attackers, and fast medium and heavies trying to kill the defenders buildings or dropships. I played that game type alone for the last two years and loved it because it actually required team coordination. It's also a FFP/puretech server to boot.

I'll have to look into it for sure! I have heard of the server from Belrick multiple times and played a few on it. I must say that it was one of the few servers I would hop into but not regularly.

Edited by Cattra Kell, 29 November 2011 - 02:57 PM.

[Cattra Kell]

Remember to keep those questions and discussion points rolling in for tomorrow!

Cyttorak, Kudzu, Belrick, and Dihm all have questions and discussion points in, why don't you?

Edited by Cattra Kell, 29 November 2011 - 03:05 PM.

[Riptor]

What do you guys think about a "real" economics system like MW2: Mercanaries had (atleast the windows version if i remember correctly)... and how salvage could be handled as to not have a negative impact on it.

What about auction houses like we know em from other games?

Also how do you think matches in Galaxy conquest modes should/could be handled? Should it purely be a one on one between Merc companys, ala WoT.. or should several merc units fight together against other several merc units that have banded together/have some sort of alliance (ofcourse still limited to which house you joined first) in the same match? Like lets say you have three lances on one side all belonging to a different merc unit and three lances on the other side controlled by players of two different merc units?

[Cattra Kell]

Riptor, on 29 November 2011 - 03:24 PM, said:

What do you guys think about a "real" economics system like MW2: Mercanaries had (atleast the windows version if i remember correctly)... and how salvage could be handled as to not have a negative impact on it.

What about auction houses like we know em from other games?

Also how do you think matches in Galaxy conquest modes should/could be handled? Should it purely be a one on one between Merc companys, ala WoT.. or should several merc units fight together against other several merc units that have banded together/have some sort of alliance (ofcourse still limited to which house you joined first) in the same match? Like lets say you have three lances on one side all belonging to a different merc unit and three lances on the other side controlled by players of two different merc units?

Added to the list good sir!

[Seth]

Seth, on 29 November 2011 - 07:52 AM, said:

I would like to hear you guys speculate about possible game types that could be included besides the requisite team destruction or the persistent map/planetary assaults (aka conquest). I'm thinking instant action games, like mission objective maps and capture the flag, both of which I loved in MW4. League play, including planetary, roleplay and ladders, has always been a huge part of MechWarrior multiplayer, but doesn't look like it will be possible with MechWarrior Online. I wonder if you guys think the persistant map that shows the results of conqusst games is enough to fill the shoes of traditional leagues or if MWO will suffer because of the loss of that.

I guess my question got lost in the great arm swing debate of 2011, lol.

[Cattra Kell]

Seth, on 29 November 2011 - 03:37 PM, said:

I guess my question got lost in the great arm swing debate of 2011, lol.

It did, my apologizes for that!
Added now

[CG Anastasius Focht]

As far as the arm swing debate is concerned its no big deal imo, No one can know everything about a game, and PK has acknowledged the issue in his usual honest and friendly manner. End of story.
I played MW4 mercs for hours at a time everyday for years, and in my experience it was neither a commonly known, or used or even useful function. I used it myself maybe a dozen times in many years of play.

As far as questions goes, i'm finding it hard to formulate any, but i do wonder what you think of the investment options available in crescent hawks inception.
For those not familiar you could invest your C-bills in one of three share portfolios (DefHes industrys is one i remember), and the balance would sometimes rise and sometimes fall.
Do you think such a feature has a place in MWO ?

[Cattra Kell]

[CG]Anastasius Focht, on 29 November 2011 - 03:56 PM, said:

As far as questions goes, i'm finding it hard to formulate any, but i do wonder what you think of the investment options available in crescent hawks inception.
For those not familiar you could invest your C-bills in one of three share portfolios (DefHes industrys is one i remember), and the balance would sometimes rise and sometimes fall.
Do you think such a feature has a place in MWO ?

I'll have to look into it, but you mean something like investing in a stock market of say the house you start in? That's a pretty awesome idea IMO... added like the force of a Steiner recon lance to moral.

Edited by Cattra Kell, 29 November 2011 - 04:01 PM.

[Belrick]

Seth, on 29 November 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

If you still have the game installed, jump onto the Sunder II server tonight around 9EST. It's a mission play server. You'll see quite a few assault mechs defending the objective building, but you'll also see scouts looking for attackers, and fast medium and heavies trying to kill the defenders buildings or dropships. I played that game type alone for the last two years and loved it because it actually required team coordination. It's also a FFP/puretech server to boot.

PT sunder II is the best server around.

Anyway, with the Great Arm Swing Debate of 2011, I figured this is what was meant:



Arms (specifically the weapons on them) have never been able to move in a full range like that in mechwarrior 4. That's what I thought they were getting at.

Edited by Belrick, 29 November 2011 - 04:07 PM.

[CG Anastasius Focht]

Cattra Kell, on 29 November 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

I'll have to look into it, but you mean something like investing in a stock market of say the house you start in? That's a pretty awesome idea IMO... added like the force of a Steiner recon lance to moral.

Yeah in crescent hawks inception there were 3 portfolios you could invest in, and in game time, some made a profit some a loss, it was a way of getting that little bit of extra cash for the mechitlube

Quote

Free C-bills
While still training (before the training center is destroyed), you will notice that you will receive money (allowance, paycheck, bribe, etc.) 15 C-bills at a time. Just select a spot in the training center and wait for about an hour. You should have at least 500 C-bills. Note that this only works on some locations on the map. Each location varies by version number, does not work when paused, and will not work after the training center is attacked.
Should you have problems finding that magical spot in the training center, there is another way to get lots of cash. First, after every training mission, hang around until the money stops appearing. Then, put it into the ComStar stocks of Defiance Industries, better known as DefHes. This stock will steadily increase as time passes. If you are careful, you should be able to buy tech training in the MechitLube, all the weapons courses in the Citadel, a flak suit and a mech weapon of your choice. Then, leave whatever money you have in the stock. Should you make it to the Spaceport, hide behind the ComStar building for a few hours, and presto, instant cash. It may take a little longer, but it is well worth it. Try leaving the game running overnight to get up to 1.4 Million C-Bills.

I wonder if this could be expanded in MWO, with the stocks value perhaps being tied to real game results. for example if your house holds Hesperus II then stocks in defiance industries give good returns etc etc
http://www.sarna.net...ance_Industries

I always found it to be a fun aspect of Crescent hawks inception

Quote

Besides training as a 'Mech pilot, Jason can invest his money in training for a multitude of skills in various fields by taking courses at the Citadel or an apprenticeship the Mechit-Lube ('Mech repair shop), and purchase personal equipment. At the local ComStar station he can invest in the stock market to gain (or lose) C-Bills available stocks are Defiance Industries of Hesperus II (DefHes), Nashan Diversified (NasDiv) and Baker Pharmaceuticals (BakPhar).

Edited by [CG]Anastasius Focht, 29 November 2011 - 04:18 PM.

[Cattra Kell]

Podcast is recording in 12 hours, last change to get those question in!

Cyttorak, Kudzu, Belrick, Dihm, Riptor, Seth, and Anastasius Focht have all asked questions, why haven't you?

Edited by Cattra Kell, 30 November 2011 - 03:30 AM.