106 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

Best Brawler and Heavier Mech Supporter at Close Range: Centurion

• Their buggy modeling make them tougher than they should be which is an asset in a brawl. Wangs tend to put out great damage numbers too.

Best Medium mech sniper: Shadowhawk

• It's a mini jump sniper. Pretty much the same weapons with a little less armor. I see these guys put out disgusting amounts of damage.

Best Medium mech for Flanking Cap Offense/Defense: Kintaro-18

• Best light killing medium in my opinion which is important for cap fighting and flanking. It's fast and has a ton of streaks. Of course the shadowhawk 2d2 comes very close, but I like that extra streak and podbay door which gives your CT 10% damage reduction. Also it would be kind of boring if I just went Shadowhawk, shadowhawk, shadowhawk.

[Johnny Reb]

Cerlin, on 26 October 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

An interesting poll indeed. When considering mediums and the where the new Shadowhawk fits in is a good question to ask. I voted that the Hucnhback was the best support of heavier mechs, the Centurion was the best flanker, and the Shadowhawk is the best at range. I also feel that the option of "best jack of all trades" which I would give to the Shadowhawk currently. Now for some explanation.

Firstly the Hunchback. I feel this mech has kept its roll as brawler and close range support since the closed beta and I feel that it hasnt lost the crown yet. I still drive all of my Hunchbacks and feel they are great. They have decent tanking ability (between speed, armor, and size.) Very good firepower, and amazing maneuverability of both itself and its gun mounts. This makes the hunchback great in close. The knife fighter if you will.

The Centurion has been one of my favorite mechs since it came out. With its zombie (and/or Speed) and interesting choices of weapons I feel this mech is the best flanker. If you run AC (like I do in my D) it has amazing arm range which lets you hit all over. It is quick, can kill lights reliably, and can dance around bigger mechs and slow them down. The A is one of the best brawlers in the game even with SRMS being wonky. Flanking with 6 x3 ASRMS and unloading into the back of an Assault is always a game changer.

The Shadowhawk I feel wins both the "best sniper" and "best overall" awards. If you were going to only buy one medium I feel the Shawdowhawk can do it all. I currently run all of mine as mid range mechs (300-600m) and use them as second line support. With the Jumpjets and a big enough engine I feel it does this roll well. You can also build it into a streak boat or ac20 boat as needed but I feel this does not take full advantage of the chassis. Not sure why people say this is the best at everything, but it is pretty good. I am happy with my purchase. I do feel that the weapon reach of the AC even with x 2 base is just not enough compared to my Hunchback and Centurion, so brawling can be rough. It also just does not have the acceleration to match the other two mechs.

In the end I love most mediums and these three are no exception, they just all play substantially different.

I agree with most if all you said. Also the Shadow Hawk is far from the best mech in the game. However, I do feel it is currently the best "Medium" mech in the game. This is because, the Hawk can duplicate most medium builds in one form or another and has jump jets, which are not only effective to traverse the terrain but very useful for defense.

[Johnny Reb]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 October 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Well, I'd point out it can duplicate any Sniper Build, LRM build, Streak build but the 5 SSRM Streaktaro, and can carry an ac20 or missiles just as effective for brawling as the Hunch. It tanks damage jsut as well as a Cent, while being more versatile, about the only thing it can't replicate is the HBK-4P.

Add in better mobility, JJs, and armor, and I think that might be why. It's only notable weakspot is it is less agile than the HBK or CN9. The height and hunch that was supposed to make it DOA certainly have been much ado about nothing.

Also, it cant do the 5 lrm5 kint(obviously) or the fast cent-D/treb-3c builds. (not talking cicada, its a heavy light not a medium in every sense to me)

[Johnny Reb]

Marauder3D, on 26 October 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

1. If you haven't piloted a Shad, you have no idea how well you spread damage in that mech. I run XLs exclusively and have finished many a match at 20-30% but not losing a limb or torso.

2. the 2D2 is also my best Shad. Light deterrent for the 3 heavies I run with.

3. The Thunderbolt is killing me. Anyone have a good layout for those?

4. Bishop, mind linking me your 5M build? It is currently the Shad I like least.


Cheers,

Mad

I could have written this post verbatim from my experience.

Edited by Johnny Reb, 30 October 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Alistair Winter, on 26 October 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

I agree that this isn't what it's supposed to act like or feel like. Some of us have been gone through all the stages of grief with this game. After several months of participating in hundreds of threads with hundreds of replies, with all kinds of statistics, graphs and calculations to help PGI understand their problems, we've seen the standard cycle among many of our prominent posters.

• Denial. "It's only Beta. Things will get better."
  
• Anger. "Working as intended!? What the ****?"
  
• Bargaining. "Can we at least get the MG to do some actual damage? Just the MG?"
  
• Depression. "I can't believe I spent over $200 on this game..."
  
• Acceptance. "I'll play this game untill Star Citizen goes alpha."

You seem to be stuck in the earlier stages of grief, mate. You'll pull through.

I will add:
If this game actually gets better in the meta: I will still play this and Star Citizen(if it pans out, lot of hope for it also, like last years MWO hope just with a proven name)

[Johnny Reb]

DONTOR, on 30 October 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

As far as capping goes I dont think anyone is taking into account that the Trebuchet is the secoond fastest medium.. by alot.

Cent-D can be just as fast and more survivable, i.e. its a cent and not a treb!

[Benjamin Davion]

Shadowhawk all day long.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

or as a Light Hunter, where the 5xSSRM Kintaro still does it better, and without giving up so much potential (since it doesn't have near the capabilities anyhow) that the Shad does to be put into that role.

I agree with everything except this. Our group had some very succesful testing with anti-light SHD-2H with only 3 SSRM2. IMHO, chasing down skilled lights need precision weaponry combined with SSRM2s. You cannot maintain the lock all the time with SSRM2 only builds.

So once again the Shawk takes number one place! (This is only my opinion of course)

[General Taskeen]

My Hunchback is the best Phoenix Mech.

[Bishop Steiner]

Johnny Reb, on 30 October 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

Also, it cant do the 5 lrm5 kint(obviously) or the fast cent-D/treb-3c builds. (not talking cicada, its a heavy light not a medium in every sense to me)

It's true, though I find the 5lrm5 a bit of a niche mech at best, and the JJs while not the same as flat out speed can often allow the SHD to overtake the Cn9-D on crappy terrain, so a bit of a trade off.

And let's be honest, to call a 50 ton mech carrying a 30 ton XL a bad build is something of an understatement.

I guess I should have said any viable and reasonable build, lol.

IV Amen, on 31 October 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

I agree with everything except this. Our group had some very succesful testing with anti-light SHD-2H with only 3 SSRM2. IMHO, chasing down skilled lights need precision weaponry combined with SSRM2s. You cannot maintain the lock all the time with SSRM2 only builds.

So once again the Shawk takes number one place! (This is only my opinion of course)

well, I find the lasers on the Kint work fine in conjunction with SSRMs, particularly dual Large, while keeping a higher speed. I feel the SHD does make a better anti-Light "Defender" though, when you combine the medium ballistic with SSRMs and energy. Staying with the team and beating off Lights doesn't require the ridiculous amount of chassis waste that building Medium Mech "Light Hunters" do.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 31 October 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Cise]

For supporting other mechs I still give the crown to the Centurion, more specifically the CN9A. It's hard to beat the super zombie striker when played right.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cise, on 31 October 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

the super zombie striker / when played right.

there is an oxymoron in there somewhere.........

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Bishop Steiner, on 31 October 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

well, I find the lasers on the Kint work fine in conjunction with SSRMs, particularly dual Large, while keeping a higher speed. I feel the SHD does make a better anti-Light "Defender" though, when you combine the medium ballistic with SSRMs and energy. Staying with the team and beating off Lights doesn't require the ridiculous amount of chassis waste that building Medium Mech "Light Hunters" do.

We used the 2H with 3 streaks, LPL and 3 machine guns. Everyone says LPL is worth nothing, but it's really situational. 10.6 dmg in a small burst is good against lights. We also had 3 machine guns the take care of the cored ones quickly. Have to try some more of that build. And your right, that's more of a anti-light defender than light hunter. And I have to say, hunting light mechs is kinda stupid

[Bishop Steiner]

IV Amen, on 31 October 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

We used the 2H with 3 streaks, LPL and 3 machine guns. Everyone says LPL is worth nothing, but it's really situational. 10.6 dmg in a small burst is good against lights. We also had 3 machine guns the take care of the cored ones quickly. Have to try some more of that build. And your right, that's more of a anti-light defender than light hunter. And I have to say, hunting light mechs is kinda stupid

amen to that.

I just wish that you didn't pay 7 tons for that situational damage, especially in light of it's horrific range.

[CarnifexMaximus]

IV Amen, on 31 October 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

We used the 2H with 3 streaks, LPL and 3 machine guns. Everyone says LPL is worth nothing, but it's really situational. 10.6 dmg in a small burst is good against lights. We also had 3 machine guns the take care of the cored ones quickly. Have to try some more of that build. And your right, that's more of a anti-light defender than light hunter. And I have to say, hunting light mechs is kinda stupid

I used that exact build on mine. I had lots of fun with it. I ended up mothballing it though, as I could not see a damn thing when I fired my MGs. Funny at first, but eventually it got to me.

I feel ill qualified to declare the Shadowhawk the 'best' as I find I personally struggle with medium mechs. I've mastered 2 HBKs, 2 CDAs, and 2 CN9s, i found them all difficult to master in their own way.

I've had pretty much the polar opposite experience on all my SHDs. Working though basic was no problem at all. The mech felt 100% solid to me with 0 XP hot off the patch install.

Also (as others are saying) I am finding a great diversity of roles the SHD works with. Light-hunting, being best buddy to your own lights, supporting your brawlers with an ac/20, sniping etc. I can run a STD engine in one, or XL... whatever I am in the mood for. I never feel that there is a role that a SHD cannot do within reason.

[aniviron]

Not surprised to see the Shadowhawk at the top. I have to think that it's got some serious Centurion-style hitboxes going on given that it has the same amount of armor as the Kintaro, which goes down with half as many shots.

Bishop Steiner, on 25 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Best overall, is hands down the ShadowHawk. It can do everything, save ECM, and do it well. It shines best when not over or under-engined, and not overspecialized, IMO, but it can do everything from Triple-2 or Gauss Sniping to AC20 brawling.

About the only 2 times that other mediums out do the SHD is when you need ECM, or as a Light Hunter, where the 5xSSRM Kintaro still does it better, and without giving up so much potential (since it doesn't have near the capabilities anyhow) that the Shad does to be put into that role. And even then, the Shad is number 2 at it.

Hard to admit something is better than my Cents or Hunchies, but it is true.

It's pretty telling about the state of game balance when the entire range of possibility for good builds you listed is: ballistics, ballistics, ballistics.

[FearTheAmish]

5m 2xMl AC20
2d2 4xssrm 1xlb10x
2h 2x ERLL 1x Gauss rifle

Basically every one of them fits a niche and are useful. Also with the JJ's you can do the jump jet boogie + you have a shield arm makes you a tough tall medium to kill.

[CDLord HHGD]

Brawling: Hunchback due to versatility of the chassis.
Sniping: Shadowhawk. Hard to beat JJ and high mounted ballistic.
Flanking, capping, and anti-capping: Kintaro. As a light pilot, I really hate streaktaros.

[Bishop Steiner]

aniviron, on 31 October 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Not surprised to see the Shadowhawk at the top. I have to think that it's got some serious Centurion-style hitboxes going on given that it has the same amount of armor as the Kintaro, which goes down with half as many shots.



It's pretty telling about the state of game balance when the entire range of possibility for good builds you listed is: ballistics, ballistics, ballistics.

or a pretty narrow reading of what was stated. The Mech features ballistics, the missiles and lasers are support for that. (unless you want to waste the mount on MGs). Funny enough I still see TONS of lasers, goodly amount of PPC spam (though admittedly less ER PPC) and not uncommon to get nailed by missile.


Are ballistics overall pretty dang good? Yeah, and they should be since you pay the price of entry with ridiculous weight and ammo consumption. But since several of my favorite mechs feature ballistics in the form of MG or the like, I think people need to get over it. Sorry your Meta ain't being ***** anymore. Adapt and move on.

[Johnny Reb]

cdlord, on 31 October 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Brawling: Hunchback due to versatility of the chassis.
Sniping: Shadowhawk. Hard to beat JJ and high mounted ballistic.
Flanking, capping, and anti-capping: Kintaro. As a light pilot, I really hate streaktaros.

The 4 streak 3 JJ 4 streak Shadow can follow lights better than the Kintaro! Also, the shadow can carry the same weps as the brawling Hunchie with jj.