166 replies to this topic

[xhrit]

Reith Dynamis, on 26 October 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

First of all this is not a RPG with mechs in it, Its a Simuliation to a degree with RPG aspects.

k.

[Coralld]

What would help Lights and Mediums is if they were given bonuses to spotting, TAGing, NARCing, and Capping because right now there is really little incentive to do so for the fact that XP and C-Bills you get out of it is horrible compared to killing/crippling/assisting. Also, we need a better pilots tree for the classes and for specific mechs, also making some modules more class and mech specific as well.

[Randalf Yorgen]

WM Mangonel, on 25 October 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

when a 30 ton mechs decide it's more advantageous for them to brawl mechs 2-3x their tonnage then your game needs some adjusting.

lights are broke as hell not taking damage and it's really starting to wear thin, wait sorry no that was like 4 months ago.

when is this **** going to fixed so that lights have something to fear?

Hmm, an Elite founder with this mental disposition, I think not. Did you just buy your account from someone because there is no way you're the original owner of that account and can still be thinking like that.

[Jon Gotham]

WM Mangonel, on 25 October 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

ok, just continue being snide and contrary.

it's happening a lot whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not.

just go ahead and continue to act like ********.

But you did exactly that in your op.
Lights not taking damage is NOT the issue. They are not in game to feed you with cheap kills and c-bills.
Their actual role sadly is near pointless in the current "make biggest rofl-alpha strike build" meta.

You not being able to casually squash them is not the issue-nor should it ever be. ANY class of mech you face in your (presumed) assault should be an equal threat to you-for varying reasons of course.
I repeat: Lights are not in game to provide you with cheap kills and c-bills.

[Davers]

xhrit, on 26 October 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

Role warfare is just like roles in role playing game. The roles in a RPG are Fighter, Mage, and Thief.

What you are arguing is that Thief should never, ever, under any circumstance, be able to defeat a fighter in 1v1, simply because the Fighter's gear (plate, armor, sword and shield sword) weighs twice as much as the Thief's gear (leather armor and daggers). That is not thw way it should be. Thief should be able to kill fighter if the Thief sneaks up behind the fighter and stabs him in the back; conversely the Fighter should be able to 2 shot a Thief if the Fighter gets some good hits in.

The roles in mechwarrior are Brawler, Firesupport, Scout.

They almost match up 1 for 1 with RPG classes.

Brawlers and Fighters both stand up close and tank stuff, while Mages and Firesupport stand back and pepper the enemy from long range. Scouts and Thiefs use their speed and stealth to get behind the enemy and hit them in the back. All roles can fight and kill all other roles in 1v1 combat, although there are some circumstances in which some rolls are better suited against others. Thus, all mechs/classes have their own little niche/role that they excel at doing, and they need the assistance of the roles of their teammates in order to win the day (just like their team needs them in return). If a team lacked a certain class or role then said team is at a significant weakness.



ROLE WARFARE.
WORKING AS INTENDED.

If this were true then a team without medium mechs would be at a disadvantage, and this does not seem to be the case.

[xhrit]

Davers, on 26 October 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

If this were true then a team without medium mechs would be at a disadvantage, and this does not seem to be the case.

"Medium Mech" is not a role, it is a weight category.

"Brawler Mech", "Firesupport Mech", "Scout Mech". Those are roles.

Drop without max armor brawler mechs and your team will be at a disadvantage.
Drop without max speed scout mechs and your team will be at a disadvantage.
Drop without max range firesupport mechs and your team will be at a disadvantage.

Edited by xhrit, 26 October 2013 - 10:50 AM.

[Prezimonto]

Too many people confuse role warfare with tonnage classes.

This game has one role: damage dealer. With perhaps a sub-roles of harrasser and bait. The game only acknowleges the role of "damage dealer" via rewards.

Lack of game play modes, real information warfare tools that need active use, and consistent nerfs to the only weapons system that has synergy with support tools (LRM/tag/narc), lack of targeting computers. All contribute to the issue.

[Jman5]

Coralld, on 26 October 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

What would help Lights and Mediums is if they were given bonuses to spotting, TAGing, NARCing, and Capping because right now there is really little incentive to do so for the fact that XP and C-Bills you get out of it is horrible compared to killing/crippling/assisting. Also, we need a better pilots tree for the classes and for specific mechs, also making some modules more class and mech specific as well.

In my opinion this would not help anything. Players don't bring mechs because of little non-combat bonuses like these. If people really made decisions based on optimal cbill/xp rewards everyone would equip 1 long range weapon and tap enemies for guaranteed 12 assists. The fact that most people do not run around trying to regularly game the reward feature tells me that by in large people only care about doing a lot of damage and getting kills.

Players will not stop bringing mass assault/heavies until either they get nerfed or the match maker forces the issue with tonnage caps.

[Krivvan]

Rasako, on 26 October 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

that just reinforces his argument you dumb ***! none of you have any access to REAL numbers so this entire thread is just a ******* contest in and of itself. All we have to go on is what PGI has said and even they know that lights (particularly the spider and jenner) have serious hitbox problems and said they'd be looking into them

Numbers that players experience in game are real numbers. That's the entire point right?

And PGI never said the Spider in particular had hitbox problems, much less the Jenner.

And wait, you think the Jenner has hitbox problems? The one light mech that almost everyone says does not have hitbox problems?

[Khobai]

Quote

Too many people confuse role warfare with tonnage classes.

Because theyre related. An assault mech cant be a scout for example. Even though scouting is a role its a role that should only be performed by light mechs.

[Roland]

Khobai, on 26 October 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Because theyre related. An assault mech cant be a scout for example. Even though scouting is a role its a role that should only be performed by light mechs.

The Charger would like to have a word with you.
Also, it would like you to please ignore that it is considered "an abject failure of mech design".

[Khobai]

Quote

The Charger would like to have a word with you.

The Charger isnt in MWO. Besides the Charger just reinforces my point anyway. Its an abject failure because assaults shouldnt be scouts.

Roles and weight classes have always been intrinsically linked in Battletech. When one talks about the role of scouting they are referring to lights or mediums. When one talks about the roles of fire support/assaulting they are referring to heavies or assaults. So saying weight classes have nothing to do with roles is absolutely wrong because weight class absolutely dictates what roles a mech can perform.

So in MWO weight class should determine your role, but sadly we only have one role: combat.

Edited by Khobai, 26 October 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[xhrit]

Khobai, on 26 October 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Even though scouting is a role its a role that should only be performed by light mechs.

The cicada is a recon mech.
The shadowhawk is a recon mech.

They can scout fine.

"A recon and strike BattleMech developed during the Golden Age, the Shadow Hawk is a powerful fusion of maneuverability and firepower. A superior BattleMech for commanding a reconnaissance company or serving as a spotter for heavy and assault lances, the Shadow Hawk is a proven and capable design that has served with distinction for more than five centuries."

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Shadow_Hawk

"The Cicada was introduced in 2740 by HartfordCo Industries in an attempt to capitalize on the growing need for BattleMechs. HartfordCo built the Cicada to compete directly against the Locust. The 'Mech was designed around a similar doctrine of speed and has a top speed of 129.6 km/h."

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Cicada


"The Locust was built exclusively for reconnaissance."

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Locust

Khobai, on 26 October 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

The Charger isnt in MWO. Besides the Charger just reinforces my point anyway. Its an abject failure because assaults shouldnt be scouts.

Roles and weight classes have always been intrinsically linked in Battletech. When one talks about the role of scouting they are referring to lights or mediums. When one talks about the roles of fire support/assaulting they are referring to heavies or assaults. So saying weight classes have nothing to do with roles is absolutely wrong because weight class absolutely dictates what roles a mech can perform.

Weigh classes are more like races in traditional mmos. Dwarves and orks make good fighters, Elves and gnomes make good mages.

Sure you can have a gnomish fighter, but a gnome is not going to be able to fill the role as good as an Ork.

Edited by xhrit, 26 October 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[xhrit]

Prezimonto, on 26 October 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

Too many people confuse role warfare with tonnage classes.

This game has one role: damage dealer. With perhaps a sub-roles of harrasser and bait. The game only acknowleges the role of "damage dealer" via rewards.

Lack of game play modes, real information warfare tools that need active use, and consistent nerfs to the only weapons system that has synergy with support tools (LRM/tag/narc), lack of targeting computers. All contribute to the issue.

Your assumption is correct but your reasoning as to why is off. The issue is too many people confuse a scout's role with that of a spy or spotter. While scouts make good spotters, a scout's job on the battlefield is "Armed Reconnaissance."

http://www.merriam-w...0reconnaissance
Full Definition of ARMED RECONNAISSANCE

1 : reconnaissance to locate and attack targets of opportunity in a general area rather than to attack predesignated targets

2 : reconnaissance to locate and gather intelligence on targets in areas where lack of air superiority makes it necessary for the aircraft to fight its way in and out again

Both of these definitions lead me to believe that a scout's primary role involves that of a damage dealer. This game has 3 roles, and they all involve dealing damage.

Brawler - heavy armor - up close damage
Fire Support - long range - far away damage
Scout - fast moving - flanking damage

Edited by xhrit, 27 October 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[xhrit]

Khobai, on 26 October 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

The Shadowhawk is not a recon mech. Shadowhawks are very much strikers in MWO.

Again youre confusing Battletech with MWO. They are different games and mechs that fill one role in Battletech are filling completely different roles in MWO. And actually combat is the only real role in MWO. Scouting isnt even a role as much as it should be.

Since you clearly did not see what I posted, i will post it again.

ARMED RECONNAISSANCE

1 : reconnaissance to locate and attack targets of opportunity in a general area rather than to attack predesignated targets

Edited by xhrit, 26 October 2013 - 03:41 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

ARMED RECONNAISSANCE

Thats not a role in MWO.

[xhrit]

Khobai, on 26 October 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Thats not a role in MWO.

"Frontal Assault" is not a role. It is what the role of 'brawler' does.
"Missile Barrage" is not a role. It is what the role of 'fire support' does.
"Armed reconnaissance" is not a role. It is what the role of 'scout' does.

[Khobai]

Quote

"Frontal Assault" is not a role. It is what the role of 'brawler' does.
"Missile Barrage" is not a role. It is what the role of 'fire support' does.
"Armed reconnaissance" is not a role. It is what the role of 'scout' does.

There is no scout role. No one runs around just being a scout.

The only roles in the game now are basically brawler, support, and sniper.

[xhrit]

Khobai, on 26 October 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

There is no scout role. No one runs around just being a scout.

The only roles in the game now are basically brawler, support, and sniper.

A SCOUTS JOB IS TO SHOOT STUFF.

/facepalm.

Edited by xhrit, 26 October 2013 - 04:01 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

SCOUTS JOB IS TO SHOOT STUFF.

do you even know what a scout is? lol