106 replies to this topic

[Krivvan]

The AC/10's a good weapon...

And medium pulse lasers were never 1.5 tons...

Edited by Krivvan, 26 October 2013 - 04:35 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Well, here's my list.

Ballistics

• AC2. I never use this weapon.
  
• AC5. Good weapon.
  
• AC10. Good weapon.
  
• AC20. Good weapon
  
• UAC5. Good weapon.
  
• LBX. I never use this weapon.
  
• MG. Good if you have 4+. Otherwise... ok, if you have no other option.
  
• Gauss rifle. Good weapon.

Energy

• Small lasers. I never use this weapon
  
• Medium lasers. Good weapon
  
• Large lasers. Good weapon.
  
• ER Large lasers. Good weapon.
  
• Small pulse lasers. I never use this weapon.
  
• Medium pulse lasers. I never use this weapon.
  
• Large pulse laser. I very rarely use this weapon. But I do use it.
  
• PPC. Good weapon
  
• ER PPC. Good weapon.
  
• Flamers. I never use this weapon.

Missiles


I'm not going to list them all. There's no specific weakness for any LRM or SRM, but they all suffer from some very significant weaknesses. They're still good and I can still use any of them with good effect, except the LRM5.

In conclusion:
I use 6/8 ballistic weapons, I use 6/10 energy weapons. I use 6/7 missile weapons. In total, I use 18 / 25 weapons. 28% of all weapons are useless in my hands.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 26 October 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[Krivvan]

The Small Laser and Small Pulse Laser have niches, but those niches are too small.

The SSRM is a good weapon.

It depends on who you ask, but the AC/2 is at least used a lot.

The LBX is bad in my opinion, but there are those that think it isn't terrible.

The Machine Guns are too situational, but aren't that close to absolutely awful.

LRMs are generally considered inferior to sniping.

Medium and Large pulse lasers have too many disadvantages compared to their disadvantages.

But the only weapon in the game that is actually downright complete and absolute garbage (as in you can't even make it work in PUG matches) is the Flamer.

[KhanHeir]

>pulse laser
>Advantage

Pick only one.

[Krivvan]

KhanHeir, on 26 October 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

>pulse laser
>Advantage

Pick only one.

Pulse lasers have a lower duration time. If you were absolutely certain that all you were going to do in a game was duel other light mechs, then you'd take Small Pulse Lasers.

The problem is that pulse lasers weigh just a little too much and have too little range to be useful in most circumstances. But they are useful when you only have a small window to focus damage into a component.

[Khobai]

Quote

Pulse lasers have a lower duration time

But they weigh the same as a PPC so why not just use a PPC.

[Matthew Ace]

Medium Pulse Lasers has ALWAYS been 2 tons. Pulse Lasers (including Small, to a certain extent) needs a buff or some overhaul, whether PGI likes to hear it or not.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 26 October 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[zazz0000]

It comes down to this: there are weapons you can boat, and weapons you can't (or shouldn't).

Examples:
Small Laser - no reason to boat since you have a medium. But a pair of them as a backup weapon have done wonders for me.
MG's - even with just a pair, at a right place and the right time, you can score an easy kill. Can be boated though.
ERPPC - excellent weapon if not boated. Great to have one in your mech for the ability to reach out and touch a target at 750m. Upclose they still hit pretty hard.

Some weapons just lack due to other factors, like lack of VoIP. Take a heated energy battle between a pair of AS7's, and bring in a Locust with some flamethrowers. Suddenly the tide turns

[Texas Merc]

Christof Romulus, on 26 October 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Ouch! You sure sick burned me there!

Sick burn though. You stay classy.

THATS MORE OF AN ICE BURN BRO.

[Krivvan]

Khobai, on 26 October 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

But they weigh the same as a PPC so why not just use a PPC.

PPCs are for longer range. I agree that a PPC is a better option in general, but if you knew you were getting into close range combat, a large pulse may be a better choice.

But yeah, large pulses are far too expensive (tonnage and heat wise) to take for general use.

[Shibas]

Sounds like you guys are living for your "DPS." You need to simplify man.

[mike29tw]

MischiefSC, on 26 October 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Just because of an argument elsewhere on the forums I just loaded up my 3D with 2ERPPCs, 2ML and 1UAC5, 2 tons of ammo. 17 DHS and a JJ, 325XL.

Actually did great. Now, I'm a crappy poptart and I don't have a good enough mouse to maximize value of the zoom module but you keep the enemy at 600-800m for as long as possible. Stay still; draw fire. Those LLs will doe 1 or 2 points, those PPCs about 2 points each. My ERPPCs are still hitting for 20. Someone have AC2s? Poptart, their damage will spread on you while your damage will all hit a single location. Then when you close you use the UAC5 and MLs. You don't alpha. You try to save enough heat for an emergency 2xERPPC punch point blank and I poped a few lights that way but mostly it's the UAC5 and 2MLs. By that time I've stripped a lot of armor.

ERPPCs work. They're just not the ultimate. They require some cunning and purpose to use effectively. Much like a dual gauss build. It works, it's just not exceptional above other builds.

PPCs and AC5s are not 'better'. They're just pretty flexible and work well without a clear plan. I watched a 4man LRM boat group absolutely wreck face today. They split up, kept about 200m away from each other. It was brutal - almost impossible to stay under cover. You'd move to shoot one in the open and get literally 120 LRMs coming in from the side.

Weapon balance is actually pretty good right now. Pulse lasers are scrap (I'll save the filter some electrons) but otherwise there's a good balance. There's a pretty grey area where you peak out and it's based around a mixture of ballistic and energy, with some missiles if you've got the room.

This makes me curious. Perhaps I should switch out my dual PPCs for dual ERPPCs for a few run. What is your heat efficiency at btw?

[Jalik]

MadCat02, on 26 October 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I have used and found every weapon effective at some point in MWO history . What happened ?

PGU "we are happy with the current state of weapon balancing "

State where most weapons are not worth bringing into the game ?

only speak for yourself, please. it's a subjective matter if you only have your own experience and playstyle to tell about. I like the pulse weapons when complemented with the right weapons, for example. I know, however, that it's not everybodies cup of tea. PGI knows. They have the data and know much more about weapon usage than you or I do.
Opinions don't make facts. I guarantee you'll find someone who doesn't agree with you and will be happy to tell you whe he thinks is broken in the game. So what is the point?

Edited by Jalik, 26 October 2013 - 11:43 PM.

[xRatas]

LRM are quite good now IMO. They hit rather hard but are generally easy to avoid. It is mostly a no-skill weapon so it should be easy to avoid it with skill. LRM works well as a suppression tool, and it's just the right place for it. LRM boating is voluntary thing to do, no-one is forced to do that.

AC10 is one of the best weapons in the game IMO, fires fast, hits hard enough and does damage from long range. Much better than gauss and on par with ac20 because of ease of installation. Weight saving compared to pair of ac5 makes it a deal for me.

I've seen LBX used very efficiently, so it has it's place. I much prefer AC10 over it though.

SRM are very good weapons, but hit registration issues make them useless more than half the time. SRM2 still gives reasonable results though.

ERPPC has been my favorite weapon all the time, and after last patch I've changed more into regular PPC's on most of my mechs, it was indeed bit over nerfed. It's still not bad, it's just that normal PPC is now much more reasonable to use.

Pulse lasers have their places too, fast brawlers can make more out of those, as more intense damage helps concentrating it when everything moves at 150kph. Still prefer standard lasers in my builds, s I'd agree they could still be buffed slightly.

But seriously, get rid of ghost heat and fix the damn hardpoints. Besides, I'd like to see that PPC boat even without ghost heat now, when the PPC heat was finally fixed. After all, 4PPC run equally hot that 4ERPPC used to be, and those were rare indeed.

[Black Ivan]

PGI made Autocannonsand PPCs the dominating weapons.
They have no clue hwo to really balance out the single weapons and only fix minor things instead of making it finally right.

[Dirkdaring]

MadCat02, on 26 October 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

2ER PPC+SRMS . Not practical Runs too hot

My 2.09 KDR says differently. Just because you suck at it doesn't mean everyone else does too.
STALKER STK-3F 444 245 198 1.24 468 224 2.09 152,846 284,204 1 day 19:22:44

[Mudhutwarrior]

Very few effectice weapons in this current paradigm. You can cleary see it in matches as only a few systems dominate and the rest become targets. Sure in the hands of a copetent pilot the list grows but in reality there is a pile of weapons which are only noob bait.

[New Day]

Christof Romulus, on 26 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

C'mon, it's not 75% =P

50% by my count
Yellow ones are debatable and I put all the SRMs and LRMs in the same group (even if SRMs/LRMs were useful SRM2 and LRM20 would be useless).

Dirkdaring, on 27 October 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

My 2.09 KDR says differently. Just because you suck at it doesn't mean everyone else does too.
STALKER STK-3F 444 245 198 1.24 468 224 2.09 152,846 284,204 1 day 19:22:44

means nothing. I have a 2.88 in an AWS8Q.

Alistair Winter, on 26 October 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Well, here's my list.

Ballistics

• AC2. I never use this weapon.
  
• AC5. Good weapon.
  
• AC10. Good weapon.
  
• AC20. Good weapon
  
• UAC5. Good weapon.
  
• LBX. I never use this weapon.
  
• MG. Good if you have 4+. Otherwise... ok, if you have no other option.
  
• Gauss rifle. Good weapon.

Energy

• Small lasers. I never use this weapon
  
• Medium lasers. Good weapon
  
• Large lasers. Good weapon.
  
• ER Large lasers. Good weapon.
  
• Small pulse lasers. I never use this weapon.
  
• Medium pulse lasers. I never use this weapon.
  
• Large pulse laser. I very rarely use this weapon. But I do use it.
  
• PPC. Good weapon
  
• ER PPC. Good weapon.
  
• Flamers. I never use this weapon.

Missiles





I'm not going to list them all. There's no specific weakness for any LRM or SRM, but they all suffer from some very significant weaknesses. They're still good and I can still use any of them with good effect, except the LRM5.

In conclusion:
I use 6/8 ballistic weapons, I use 6/10 energy weapons. I use 6/7 missile weapons. In total, I use 18 / 25 weapons. 28% of all weapons are useless in my hands.

How political of you to avoid saying any weapon is bad.

Both LL variants are too hot. Especially the LPL. As you said MGs are usless unless boated and that can be done by 4 mechs in the game on 2 of which it is a bad idea. UAC5 is bit meh. LBX10 is just an AC10 with -1 to accuracy, -1 to weight and -1 crit slots.

SRMs are **** because of hitreg and LRMs are hit and miss (depend on your team and enemy team (no. of ECM/AMS)).

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 27 October 2013 - 05:04 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

NamesAreStupid, on 27 October 2013 - 05:00 AM, said:

50% by my count
Yellow ones are debatable and I put all the SRMs and LRMs in the same group (even if SRMs/LRMs were useful SRM2 and LRM20 would be useless).
How political of you to avoid saying any weapons is bad.

Well, I just recognise that while some weapons are better than others, there's also a bit of variation due to the individual pilot. A lot of good players are using the AC2 with success. I've tried so hard to like it, but I never do well with it. I saw eclisse do 921 damage in his victor with 2 LLs and 2 AC2s one time. I don't think I would do above 300 damage with that build.

You say the ER Laser is useless, but a some of the good light mech pilots seem to use it a lot these days. I've also seen people do well with the Orion carrying multiple ER Lasers. It does work well when you're pairing it with a cool weapon, like the AC5. Or the gentleman's Yen Lo Wang, a gauss and an ER Laser. I don't use the SPL, but I've had my light mechs chewed up by JR-F's with 6 SPL many times, so I wouldn't say they're useless.

I hate to break the forum paradigm of painting the world black and white, but sometimes there is a bit of grey in there

[Tjalf]

Nice Conspiracy-methods people are using here. Of course, if you only consider the stats of a weapon regardless of its advantages/purpose and don't keep in mind the variing playstyle of different mech-chassis - yeah, most weapons suck. Thats how you create a conspiracy, leave out the relevant facts

i think most weapons are viable and useful. it heavily depends on the mech you're playing.
is it a tough brawler? if so, DPS heavy weapons are nice. hard hitting may also be, but keep them cool (no PPCs)
is it a striker, because its torso can be easily cored? if so, hard hitting weapons with longer CDs are nice, because you dont need to turn your front to the enemy that often. ah and long range is nice too (hello ER-PPC)
is it a support mech that doesn't need do uber1337 kill everyone when surrounded? in that case, LRMs can be quite devastating
do you want to kill lights? use SSRM2 or pulse lasers, because the shorter the duration of your laser, the more damage you inflict to that annoying fast mech

considering weapons regardless of their different use in different mech-chassis is so much none-sense.

Edited by Tjalf, 27 October 2013 - 05:16 AM.