34 replies to this topic

[Reagusmech]

I started off loving this game, I came here posting about builds and how to get started, you know really looking forward and enjoying it.

500 odd games later, I have now played 20 games tonight. 20. I've won 1. I have tried my best, I've done everything I can, but the more and more I play it becomes apparent, PUGing in this game is downright broken.

Its a luck game when playing PUGS, if its Conquest its "Who has more lights", if its Assault its just "Who is lucky enough to have more long range", and the more I've played the more I've noticed - Its just not fun.

The more you try, the more you realise, you can never improve yourself, you can never play better, you can read up on every little hint and tip about the game, it means literally ****** all in PUGS - Just hope your team is better suited for the map and game type, and hope you don't get any missing players or DC'ers.

Speaking of that, in at least half my games, we started with 2+ players missing, afk or disconnected - Why aren't these people punished? Why is it when I lose a game in this situation, that it isn't taken into account for W:L ratio or K:D?

So now I sit here, 192 wins to 192 losses, when I was doing so well. Utterly dreadful, and I just feel like all the funs gone - So with this ******* god awful statistic, shall I just delete?

[John Wolf]

i don't think so, but thats up to you. Maybe you just need a break. The problem with any game is when you play for the stats. I played AA (America's Army) in the past, and played seriously for a good KDR. I got MAD when I died to FF. I no longer get that way, and the stats mean nothing to me.

Look less at your KDR or Win/loss, look for some friends to play with, and enjoy the game.

The pug situation isn't all bad, I've pugged all night and just mastered my Shadow Hawks. Some games I got 1500 xp, some 150. It ebbs and flows.

Its a game, play for the fun, not the #s.

[Edit] Mind you, if you feel you can't pug. Stop pugging, find a group that you can join that has people to drop with all the time, change the landscape. Merc units everywhere, house units.. find one you like, that fits your gaming preferences.

Edited by John Wolf, 27 October 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[ManDaisy]

Why dont cha try bringing it up to the next level?

Skills to aquire:
1) Map interpretation, positioning, escape routes, firing positions
2) Enemy movement patterns, reading their flow and train of thought
3) Entering and exiting a situation, sensing when favor changes,
4) Spontaneous situational assessment, recognizing patterns and likely outcomes
5) Spacial awareness, being keen on who sees you and how many are around you
6) Negative information to provide positive information, when something is not, something else is.
7) Luring, baiting, manipulation, using the flow to create an advantage,
8) Stealth, knowing when firing will draw fire, and when firing will not draw fire. Knowing when someone wont chase.
9) Detecting ambush, kill boxes, knowing where to look so you dont get shot or fall into a trap.


So, speed/armor/ and fire power can only get you so far. After that its all brains. If you can read their brain you can read their moves.

Edited by ManDaisy, 27 October 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[luxebo]

Uh, how do you have Recruit Forum title, which means you haven't played that many, or are you posting with alternate account? No you shouldn't delete. Don't give up on this game. Also, join a group, and use commanding better somehow. You'll get better in the long run. Oh, and you're lucky to have a near 1:1 W/L ratio if you do, I have far worse. Just get a group, that's the best thing you can do. Pugging isn't the best thing in the world most of the time, and Pugs like to do what they want (and sometimes you can't control it.) Hope I helped a bit, don't quit.

[TheWayfarer]

I know how you feel! I am a Pugger myself with 900 wins 900 losses and have the same love-hate relationship to this game as you. Disconnects, starting 11 vs. 12, team mates that run around like headless chickens and get picked 1by1 are very frustrating! What is even more sad is that I still haven't found any friends in this game, although I play other MP games with friends only that have I met in these games.

So my way to deal with frustration is to either play some games in my LRM boat or I stop playing the game for some days / weeks. Besides that I am just getting the first win of the day at the moment with my mechs and keep waiting for the community warfare update. Once its there, I will look for a clan in the recruitment forums and try to find a solid group.

Edited by TheWayfarer, 27 October 2013 - 07:10 PM.

[Wintersdark]

If you've got a roughly 1:1 win loss ratio, then Elo is doing what it's supposed to be doing. If you're improving, you should be able to push it up, but you're unlikely to see a big WLR when solo pugging.

If you get into a group, and either run 12mans or 4-man PUG drops, you can and likely will get a much better WLR, but solo? As you improve, you'll be put against tougher opponents too, so you'll end up winning roughly 50%.

What happened to you, I imagine, is that you started low (this is normal) and shot up quickly due to lots of wins. Then, you're suddenly facing much tougher opposition, and not winning so often anymore. As you're still a very new player, you'll hit a wall quickly where you get past the Other New Players and reach players who understand the game; beyond just hitting what they aim at, and they'll be much more difficult to beat. To move on from there, you need to do what ManDaisy said, and:

Quote

Why dont cha try bringing it up to the next level?

Skills to aquire:
1) Map interpretation, positioning, escape routes, firing positions
2) Enemy movement patterns, reading their flow and train of thought
3) Entering and exiting a situation, sensing when favor changes,
4) Spontaneous situational assessment, recognizing patterns and likely outcomes
5) Spacial awareness, being keen on who sees you and how many are around you
6) Negative information to provide positive information, when something is not, something else is.
7) Luring, baiting, manipulation, using the flow to create an advantage,
8) Stealth, knowing when firing will draw fire, and when firing will not draw fire. Knowing when someone wont chase.
9) Detecting ambush, kill boxes, knowing where to look so you dont get shot or fall into a trap.

[/color]

Edited by Wintersdark, 27 October 2013 - 08:08 PM.

[WVAnonymous]

Wintersdark, on 27 October 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

If you've got a roughly 1:1 win loss ratio, then Elo is doing what it's supposed to be doing. If you're improving, you should be able to push it up, but you're unlikely to see a big WLR when solo pugging.

Also, if you're really concerned, the lightweights are more prevalent on weekends and after news events. You can get comfortable laying waste to new players and then hit a 0-20 night when you're dropping against serious 4-man teams, or drop in the morning and catch Europe's finest (I'm US West Coast).

Elo is intended to fix as much of that as possible, but as previously cited, it will move you to your skill level. Hopefully you can enjoy playing with varied conditions (need to get more kills because we started short two pilots, etc.) because it's a little more "real".

[MavRCK]

I think John Wolf has the right perspective. Also, WVAnonymous is right -- on the weekends, there's a lot more variability. One night, I went 0-7 and it was frustrating as there was only so much I could do. I found myself really negative - so I closed the game and watched a movie. Breaks are good!

That said, a way to maximize your chance is to build a good mech - get a good chassis (see my tier list) and optimize the layout. Get used to that mech and level it! It takes a LOT of games to master a mech.

Also, here's a checklist of things to work on which I hope will help you get "better" at the game:

1. What map am I on? Is it hot or cold? How quickly will I overheat? Where can I get the upper level advantage?
2. Where is my team going? Do I need to with them? Can I be alone? If I'm alone, am I mobile enough to escape?
3. I'm shooting someone: Where is my team? Where are my enemies? Am I doing more damage than I am taking?
4. Communicate: Where are the enemy lights? Is my team able to deal with a base cap right now?

Lastly, join a good group like HeadHunters of Davion -- mwo.enjin.com -- you'll learn a lot like I did from them and you'll have a lot more fun in a group.

GL HF!

PS: If you need specific help just message me. <3

Edited by MavRCK, 27 October 2013 - 10:17 PM.

[Appogee]

192 wins vs 192 losses is EXACTLY what the matchmaker wants you to have... an even W/L.

In practice you will get a run of wins, until it bumps you up to a new Elo level that makes things harder for you. It will then pitch you against better opponents - and with weaker friendlies - til you have a losing streak which brings your Elo level down again.

Then you'll get another run of wins til it goes up again.

Working as intended.

[Bront]

Finding folks to play togeather will help you win more,as teamwork is important, and nothing beats having live people helping you out.

Beyond that, don't get caught up in the forum speak. You're better off in a mech you like than a mech folks say is "Good", at least in the short term. I've had days like that, but eventually you'll have a day where you're rolling, so it will turn around eventually.

[Mycrus]

Don't play for the score.

1 WLR is good.

I have close to 10000 drops across the many stat wipes... I have a 1.something WLR...

[Victor Morson]

The stats mean less than nothing. I have countless deaths and suicides and losses from dealing with leagues, one on one tournaments, and so forth.

It does nothing for or against you. Seriously, don't sweat it. Join a unit so you can start playing with people (even in 4 mans) and you will have a much, much better time of it in pugs.

[Eaerie]

What i can't figure out is what you think starting over will accomplish. You start over, get dumped into the newbie elo bracket a bit, stomp some new players, shoot up in the elo bracket and end up in the same place you are. Unless you are just using it as a means to stroke your ego.
a 1:1 w/l ratio is perfect. If you have that much of a problem playing take a break for an hour or so or better yet join a unit to drop with. Best advice is ignore your W/L ratio and try and have fun it is a game after all and you don't get a scooby snack for having a high W/L ratio.

[King Arthur IV]

if you won alot of game after your first 25 matches, you will be placed in a higher bracket. basically you are playing with the big boys now so games will be more difficult.
if you want the feeling of stomping, yes start a new account and play vs the noobs or stick with your account and appreciate your wins.

Edited by King Arthur IV, 28 October 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[divinedisclaimer]

Reagusmech, on 27 October 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

I started off loving this game, I came here posting about builds and how to get started, you know really looking forward and enjoying it.

500 odd games later, I have now played 20 games tonight. 20. I've won 1. I have tried my best, I've done everything I can, but the more and more I play it becomes apparent, PUGing in this game is downright broken.

Its a luck game when playing PUGS, if its Conquest its "Who has more lights", if its Assault its just "Who is lucky enough to have more long range", and the more I've played the more I've noticed - Its just not fun.

The more you try, the more you realise, you can never improve yourself, you can never play better, you can read up on every little hint and tip about the game, it means literally ****** all in PUGS - Just hope your team is better suited for the map and game type, and hope you don't get any missing players or DC'ers.

Speaking of that, in at least half my games, we started with 2+ players missing, afk or disconnected - Why aren't these people punished? Why is it when I lose a game in this situation, that it isn't taken into account for W:L ratio or K:D?

So now I sit here, 192 wins to 192 losses, when I was doing so well. Utterly dreadful, and I just feel like all the funs gone - So with this ******* god awful statistic, shall I just delete?

Your stats don't matter, only your individual performance in any given game.

[Nick Makiaveli]

@OP This game isn't really about KDR as others have said.

So go look for a TS server and get in a pre-made. If you have a House preference, all of them have organized drops. Perhaps a Merc unit? Or just head over to No Guts, No Galaxy and find some friends there. Even if you don't win more, you will have more fun once you find some folks to run with.

Couple days ago I was planning on getting the x2 XP on my mechs, and guess what? Got one Thunderbolt done in one PUG match, then spent several hours running the 2nd in 4 man pre-mades and we lost. Over and over. Some were close, others not even. Had some that went like 9/10 to 12 with out lance getting 8-9 of the kills. Nothing like seeing a PUG Atlas do 48 damage.

But point being, we just kvetched about the newbies and joked about the epic face plants when a Locust going 140+ got nailed by a lucky AC/20 shot etc.

luxebo, on 27 October 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

Uh, how do you have Recruit Forum title, which means you haven't played that many, or are you posting with alternate account?

It's based on post count, and right now he has 2.

[Macbrea]

Reagusmech, on 27 October 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

So now I sit here, 192 wins to 192 losses, when I was doing so well. Utterly dreadful, and I just feel like all the funs gone - So with this ******* god awful statistic, shall I just delete?

If Elo is working correctly you should win as many as you lose. So, if you find yourself just stomping opponents easily, your probably fighting against less skills players. When it's working correctly, you should be beaten as many times as you win. So, sorry to say, your playing against players of your skill level. 192 wins, 192 loses is actually perfect.

[Alex Warden]

John Wolf, on 27 October 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

look for some friends to play with,

this is the key to a teamoriented game...

Macbrea, on 28 October 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

192 wins, 192 loses is actually perfect.

and btw a sign that you don´t play for very long... or very mutch... MWO is not easy to master, and as a lone wolf you chose the hardest way

it´s not an "eternal respawn amok respawn amok" game, but in PUG matches, too many people play like it was. but they learn. and so do you. then you face better players and have to learn from new, because they play differently and so on. a team, a unit or just a community TS server, where you can find some friends helps alot with this. you learn from each other, can develope some tactics and most of all, can have a great time sharing your fun and laughter

Edited by Alex Warden, 28 October 2013 - 08:54 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Reagusmech, on 27 October 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

I started off loving this game, I came here posting about builds and how to get started, you know really looking forward and enjoying it.

500 odd games later, I have now played 20 games tonight. 20. I've won 1. I have tried my best, I've done everything I can, but the more and more I play it becomes apparent, PUGing in this game is downright broken.

Its a luck game when playing PUGS, if its Conquest its "Who has more lights", if its Assault its just "Who is lucky enough to have more long range", and the more I've played the more I've noticed - Its just not fun.

The more you try, the more you realise, you can never improve yourself, you can never play better, you can read up on every little hint and tip about the game, it means literally ****** all in PUGS - Just hope your team is better suited for the map and game type, and hope you don't get any missing players or DC'ers.

Speaking of that, in at least half my games, we started with 2+ players missing, afk or disconnected - Why aren't these people punished? Why is it when I lose a game in this situation, that it isn't taken into account for W:L ratio or K:D?

So now I sit here, 192 wins to 192 losses, when I was doing so well. Utterly dreadful, and I just feel like all the funs gone - So with this ******* god awful statistic, shall I just delete?

Well, really this is a team game. When you drop with a really good PUG unit, they work together, people know their roles, and so on. The problem is that the nature of a PUG is that the group is random; you don't know what your teammates will do, how they will act, and they have little incentive to risk their own stats to help you out.

The trick? Find a group.

You don't have to join one of the houses or merc groups. You've been playing this game this long, then you certainly have seen a couple players you like playing with. Send them an IM, team up with them, and drop with them on the regular in a group. Makes ALL the difference.

Really, PUGs are a good intro to the game, but if you aren't teaming up after a hundred or so games, you're not making the leap to the next level.

[Aym]

Have you tried joining a community to play MWO with? Not just getting onto the NGNG TS3 and finding pugs to form a lance, which helps, but an actual community with events and regular participation for you to build a bond with? I'd highly recommend it!