287 replies to this topic

[Aiden Skye]

I only just use 3rd person to see my paint-jobs. But for actually playing the game 1st person is the way to go. You can spot 3rd person guys with the drone + you lose arm movement and your map. That said I rarely see people using 3rd person. If they are they usually don't live long.

[Thomas Covenant]

Added a new question. I hear a lot of the same things said, though it is rarely a response to my point, even if it is presented as such.

If both perspectives are "different but balanced" then they must have advantages to each, in certain situation, thus an exclusive 1PV pool is the only "balanced" way for 1PV exclusive players to have a match.

Am I wrong? If your point, is "the views are balanced" then you don't have one.

Also this is a pro 1PV pool/que/matches topic, not any rage or anything like that.

[Thomas Covenant]

I am curious as to the noticeable amount who voted for abstain to "What do you do in the meantime?". If "play rarely" had been an option, would you have voted for it?

[StandingCow]

I would think by now that the large majority of those angered by 3PV are already gone. I personally don't really play often at all anymore, but not only because of 3PV, although that was sort of the straw that broke the hunchback's back.

Edited by StandingCow, 30 October 2013 - 07:43 AM.

[Heffay]

Thomas Covenant, on 30 October 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

I am curious as to the noticeable amount who voted for abstain to "What do you do in the meantime?". If "play rarely" had been an option, would you have voted for it?

What is the purpose of this poll?

[Dr Herbert West]

I think the take home point of this poll is that 30% of the people who actually read this forum (which isn't one of the "main" forums) and take time post are actually not playing this game because of 3PV. I'm one of them, and I'm only still reading these forums because I'm a big CBT/Mechwarrior fan who was part of a MW4 team.

Imagine how many people out there are not playing or have given up on the game because of 3PV that don't read the forums anymore and/or don't bother posting. Remember that that polls were >90% against 3PV in any form.

If, as many have argued, 3PV offers no advantages, isn't useful to new players, and prevents almost 1/3 of the players still posting in this forum from playing (not to mention an untold amout of players who aren't still posting), why not just remove it?

[Heffay]

Dr Herbert West, on 30 October 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

I think the take home point of this poll is that 30% of the people who actually read this forum (which isn't one of the "main" forums) and take time post are actually not playing this game because of 3PV. I'm one of them, and I'm only still reading these forums because I'm a big CBT/Mechwarrior fan who was part of a MW4 team. Imagine how many people out there are not playing or have given up on the game because of 3PV that don't read the forums anymore and/or don't bother posting. Remember that that polls were >90% against 3PV in any form. If, as many have argued, 3PV offers no advantages, isn't useful to new players, and prevents almost 1/3 of the players still posting in this forum from playing (not to mention an untold amout of players who aren't still posting), why not just remove it?

Are you suggesting that 90% of the people who played this game quit because of 3PV?

[pbiggz]

Dr Herbert West, on 30 October 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

If, as many have argued, 3PV offers no advantages, isn't useful to new players, and prevents almost 1/3 of the players still posting in this forum from playing (not to mention an untold amount of players who aren't still posting), why not just remove it?

Because it is useful for new players, for one thing. Helping new players understand how they move and how to handle the independent legs and torso.

At the root of this you have to understand that it has zero effect on you. Dont like 3pv? Don't use it. Think it's unfair? Get over it its all in your head. Stop acting like because the game went slightly in a direction you didn't like you somehow have the authority to make sweeping arguments against a game mechanic which you clearly do not understand.

[Dr Herbert West]

pbiggz, on 30 October 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

At the root of this you have to understand that it has zero effect on you.

Objectively incorrect.

Quote

Dont like 3pv? Don't use it.

If I don't, I ceede an advantage to my opponents, and I like playing to win.

Quote

Think it's unfair? Get over it its all in your head.

Who said anything about fair? I never said it wasn't fair. Since everyone can use it its completely fair.

Quote

Stop acting like because the game went slightly in a direction you didn't like you somehow have the authority to make sweeping arguments against a game mechanic which you clearly do not understand.

I have total authority to decide which games I do and do not play, as does everyone else who has quit this game due to the implementation of 3PV or any of the other horrible design descisions (ghost heat, gauss charge) that have plagued this game over the last 9 months. I am not obligated to play or shill for MWO (although I totally did beforehand) just because its the only CBT/MW game out there.

As for not understanding the game mechanic, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

3PV is basically a periscope that lets you look around walls or over hills without risking radar detection or taking fire. It completely fouls up the LOS-based radar model of the game and upsets the risk/reward aspect of scouting/breaking cover. It also reduces the value of scouting/spotters: prior to 3PV, the only way to see an enemy mech without exposing yourself was for a teammate to spot/scout it for you.If I was playing now, I'd peek around corners or over hills all the time: flip 3PV on, take a look, flip it off.

I played MW4 from the pre-release multiplayer stress test all the way through ~2005/6 with a unit of highly competitive league players in UTS and NBT-4/Mercs (only stopped because of grad school/burnout). Everyone knew how 3PV negatively affected the game from a tactical standpoint, which is why it was banned from all of the serious leagues. Everyone who's had experience with 3PV in MW4 knows exactly why its dumb which is why the polls were >90% against it.

I don't think that 3PV is "unfair" and I certianly understand it perfectly and know how to use it to the maximum advantage. I don't like it for two main reasons. One, it makes the game worse tactically, and undermines some of the aspects of the sensor/scouting model that I liked best. Two, from the begining, we were told that there would be no 3PV or that we wouldn't have to play with it on or play against players using it. I promoted this game and spent money on this game because of the developers vision and promises, and 1PV was a big part of it. The sudden reversal of stance was a huge slap in the face, and I will not reward such behavior with my time or money.

[Dr Herbert West]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Are you suggesting that 90% of the people who played this game quit because of 3PV?

No. I am suggesting that there are many more people that quit playing due to 3PV that are not represented in this poll because they've quit reading and/or posting in these forums.

As for how many have quit and for what reason, I can't say (don't know if even PGI could say). Anecdotally, asside from 3PV, the biggest reasons I've heard for quitting are lack of/massive delays of CW/lobbies, Ghost Heat, and stale metagame.

Edited by Dr Herbert West, 30 October 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Heffay]

Dr Herbert West, on 30 October 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

No. I am suggesting that there are many more people that quit playing due to 3PV that are not represented in this poll because they've quit reading and/or posting in these forums.

As for how many have quit and for what reason, I can't say (don't know if even PGI could say). Anecdotally, asside from 3PV, the biggest reasons I've heard for quitting are lack of/massive delays of CW/lobbies, Ghost Heat, and stale metagame.

And yet there are more people playing this game than ever before.

3PV doesn't seem to have caused any noticable damage to this game.

[Dr Herbert West]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

And yet there are more people playing this game than ever before.

3PV doesn't seem to have caused any noticable damage to this game.

Your first statement isn't supported by anything but wishful thinking.

Your second statement is falsified by the results of this poll alone.

[Ghogiel]

Dr Herbert West, on 30 October 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Your first statement isn't supported by anything but wishful thinking.

Your second statement is falsified by the results of this poll alone.

The first part is substantiated by the devs actually. They have made statements a couple times stating that the numbers are continually growing. Which stands to reason more players are active now than ever before.

And they also stated that they broke their record for most concurrent players online the sunday before pheonix dropped.

The second part yeah no. It does appear it was the straw that broke the camels back for some players.

[Heffay]

Dr Herbert West, on 30 October 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Your first statement isn't supported by anything but wishful thinking.

It's from a twitter post by PGI claiming that. That is far more than wishful thinking.

Of course, you can always say "I'm sure they are lying", but that would actually BE wishful thinking.

[Farix]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

What is the purpose of this poll?

Seems like he is trying to skew the poll to get a desired affect and failing badly. At the end of the day, 3PV did not have an effect on the game and most of the players have come to realize that. The FUD that was being thrown around proved to be empty.

[Dr Herbert West]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

It's from a twitter post by PGI claiming that. That is far more than wishful thinking.

Of course, you can always say "I'm sure they are lying", but that would actually BE wishful thinking.

Ghogiel, on 30 October 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

The first part is substantiated by the devs actually. They have made statements a couple times stating that the numbers are continually growing. Which stands to reason more players are active now than ever before

They lied about 3PV, and they have a vested interest in maintaining an appearance of success. Why wouldn’t they lie again?

Why did they remove the players online counter?

Why don’t they release their numbers?

Ghogiel, on 30 October 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

And they also stated that they broke their record for most concurrent players online the sunday before pheonix dropped.

The second part yeah no. It does appear it was the straw that broke the camels back for some players.

First of all, why is this statistic important? What was their prior record? What IS the record? (we will never know). EDIT: and how is this record being calculated? Remember, they were counting people that logged in for patch day, and never played again, as "retained players."

Second, a full 30% of the people who still visit these forums and still bother to post don’t play because of 3PV. How can 30% of your player population quiting be a minor thing? How many more players don’t even visit the forums anymore?

Edited by Dr Herbert West, 30 October 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[pbiggz]

If it hurts you so much and you hate it with such fiery passion, if you think PGI are a bunch of untrustworthy liars, THEN LEAVE. GO AWAY, NOONE WANTS TO HEAR YOU ***** AND MOAN ABOUT IT. If you truly have the power to decide which games you want to play or don't want to play, then EXERCISE THAT POWER AND STOP MAKING EVERYONE ELSE MISERABLE WITH YOUR MAKE BELIEF PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE FORUM RAGE WHICH SERVES ONLY TO RUIN YOUR DAY AND EVERYONE ELSE'S DAY AND HAS ABSOLUTELY NO POTENTIAL GAIN FOR ANY PARTY INVOLVED.

[Heffay]

Dr Herbert West, on 30 October 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Second, a full 30% of the people who still visit these forums and still bother to post don’t play because of 3PV. How can 30% of your player population quiting be a minor thing? How many more players don’t even visit the forums anymore?

30%? Where are you pulling that number out of?

[pbiggz]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

30%? Where are you pulling that number out of?

Also even if that was an accurate number, its 30% of a small percentage of players, not 30% of your overall playerbase...
I think someone here is less than practiced in his discrete math.

[Thomas Covenant]

Heffay, on 30 October 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

What is the purpose of this poll?

You made some points. I could either take it as a general reflection of what people thought, though I like numbers better. I am glad I did. I am a little more grounded because of it.