132 replies to this topic

[Grey Death Storm]

Hi Guys can I ask Question

Ever since 12 v 12 matches have been introduced I have been finding it difficult to win 1 match in a game as PUGs are being put up against organised Pre-made Clan groups and when you are in game I have came across situations where you may be able kill 2 –3 mechs but the rest of your team have died duo to organised teams wiping them out and you die or you get teamed up on by 5 enemy mechs so ether way there is no way to win.

Just to explain what i mean PUGS and Pre-made Clan groups

a.. Pugs = randomly selected players who have never met you before or worked in a team with you before who don't really know enough about the game.

c.. Pre-made Clan groups = Organised Player groups who are friend who work together do radio chat systematically take out enemy's by weighing up strategic point that give them edge in battles, working as team.

New players will turn away from the game because they will get fed up of being brutally ganged up on by Pre-made Clan groups. I've been there and seen it with my own eyes back in the days where it was 8 Vs. 8 you could possible kill 3 enemy mechs and turn the tide in the battle with 12 v 12 it is a lot harder as it all comes down to each players skill and experience, and if you have weak players in the game the pressure builds up on the more experienced players


Can I ask is there something being implemented create Separate queues for PUGS and Pre-made Clan groups, instead have(PUGS VS PUGS) and (Pre-made Clan groups Vs Pre-made Clan groups) also another idea has entered my mind can we have an option to change from playing 12 vs. 12 to 8 vs. 8. as I am not eagerly fond playing 12 vs 12 I would like options to be able go back to playing 8 vs 8

[Hellcat420]

dude if there is a premade on one team, both teams have them. they do not put teams of pugs against teams of premades. just because premades dont announce themselves at the beginning of a match does not mean they are not on your team.

[Bhael Fire]

Hellcat420, on 22 October 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

dude if there is a premade on one team, both teams have them. they do not put teams of pugs against teams of premades.

That's not always true...But that's not the real problem here.

The real problem is that grouped players mess up the MM for solo players, since Elo was designed to work best with individual players, not groups of players. The disparity between skill levels in a group makes it harder for MM to create balanced matches.

[Helbrecht]

Death Storm, on 22 October 2013 - 01:28 PM, said:

Hi Guys can I ask Question

Ever since 12 v 12 matches have been introduced I have been finding it difficult to win 1 match in a game as PUGs are being put up against organised Pre-made Clan groups and when you are in game I have came across situations where you may be able kill 2 –3 mechs but the rest of your team have died duo to organised teams wiping them out and you die or you get teamed up on by 5 enemy mechs so ether way there is no way to win.

Just to explain what i mean PUGS and Pre-made Clan groups

a.. Pugs = randomly selected players who have never met you before or worked in a team with you before who don't really know enough about the game.

c.. Pre-made Clan groups = Organised Player groups who are friend who work together do radio chat systematically take out enemy's by weighing up strategic point that give them edge in battles, working as team.

New players will turn away from the game because they will get fed up of being brutally ganged up on by Pre-made Clan groups. I've been there and seen it with my own eyes back in the days where it was 8 Vs. 8 you could possible kill 3 enemy mechs and turn the tide in the battle with 12 v 12 it is a lot harder as it all comes down to each players skill and experience, and if you have weak players in the game the pressure builds up on the more experienced players


Can I ask is there something being implemented create Separate queues for PUGS and Pre-made Clan groups, instead have(PUGS VS PUGS) and (Pre-made Clan groups Vs Pre-made Clan groups) also another idea has entered my mind can we have an option to change from playing 12 vs. 12 to 8 vs. 8. as I am not eagerly fond playing 12 vs 12 I would like options to be able go back to playing 8 vs 8

NO!

in no way does your post make any logical sense as to why in a team based game the better organized teams should be punished. and the lone wolf players be rewarded. in fact thier uping the amount of player per group from 4 to an unspecified amount. this is a good change since not being able to play with your team killed off alot of the teams in this game already.

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

[Dagnome]

I feel like this has been discussed before. There will not be a direct way to split pugs and premades no matter what PGI does, we will always find a way to pug stomp with our friends. Unless they start letting us pink slip our mechs, that would filter out some PUG's.

ELO (Once fixed) will eventually balance everything. *Giggle*

[Bhael Fire]

Dagnome, on 22 October 2013 - 04:43 PM, said:

There will not be a direct way to split pugs and premades no matter what PGI does, we will always find a way to pug stomp with our friends.

It'd be kinda hard to sync drop when you can't group with your friends. That would be more trouble than it's worth. You'd be better off staying in the mix solo/grouped queue if you wanted more predictable stomps.

[HRR Mary]

This again...

Ok, back in MW4, there was no "solo queue" : you join a server, and you fought most of the time an organized team with a "pick up group".

The only difference was that people back then tried communicating with their team, and play the game, instead of lamenting on how their team was garbage. (it happened mind you, but being kicked from the server was a deterrent on all those bad attitudes we see today).

Lastly, how do you expect a community to grow, teams to form, with a solo queue, where nobody cares about the team, but only their individual stats ?

[JuiceKeeper]

i play both and i can definitly say if you got premade on your side you definitly have one premade to counter balance on the other side.

[pbiggz]

I'm quite certain the OP has no idea what he's talking about.

[Silentium]

Hello thread, it's you again!

The PUG life is not for the faint of heart. I think back on 8 man rofl stomps and shake my head, because what we have now is nothing close to those dark days. Just because players are grouped, it doesn't mean they are automatically awesome; hell, for the competitive players, it probably isn't even much fun. There are some guys that delight in pug stomping though, which is pretty sad; the trouble is that you can't mitigate these a-holes without affecting the enjoyment of the generally decent players.

So no, having been a pugger since CB, i don't support separate queues. I do support private matches, and i think this would alleviate some of the pain, while allowing the old any size group matches from before.

[tucsonspeed6]

For the record, this topic keeps coming up because there is still a huge communication gap between pugs and premades. Solo players want to be able to communicate verbally, so that's why they keep bringing up how unfair they feel it is when a premade group focus fires them to death 5 seconds after they pop their head over the wrong ridge. Premades are the ones who are obsessed with their own individual stats, because they want to keep nailing those stragglers who are at a disadvantage. Your K/D ratio skyrockets when you have a communication advantage regardless of if you have to share those kills with 3 other guys.

Think of it like this: competitive players lost their minds over the idea that someone might be able to get even a slight advantage by using the 3pv drone like a parascope to look around corners, but they had no problem with the fact that in any given match, up to 8 guys on the other team have no method of verbal communication without jumping through a series of hoops first. And whenever the topic of evening up the odds for those guys comes up, the response from that same vocal community that flipped out over the minor advantage of 3pv is "L2P noob" or something along the lines of solo players ruining the team oriented aspect of the game. If you were really concerned with the team strategy aspect of the game, you'd be calling for PGI to give those same team strategy tools that you use to players.

[Grey Death Storm]

Helbrecht, on 22 October 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

NO!

in no way does your post make any logical sense as to why in a team based game the better organized teams should be punished. and the lone wolf players be rewarded. in fact thier uping the amount of player per group from 4 to an unspecified amount. this is a good change since not being able to play with your team killed off alot of the teams in this game already.

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

You are missing the point

Its not fair on the PUGs against organised teams because they get slaughtered plus new players and solo player get picked of by Pre made clans. Question how it unfair to put Pre made clans against Pre made clans.I would look at it as being fair plus that extra chaellenge. Its not fair to put PUGs (Individual player) up against Pre Made Clans because I have read threads where people are getting fed up and saying there is no fun in being (FACE ROLLED BY PRE MADES) you will start loose poeple who join the game.

If you have not noticed there have been lot poeple leaving the game because there getting tired being put in fights against pre made clans check the reviews.

[Bhael Fire]

tucsonspeed6, on 23 October 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

If you were really concerned with the team strategy aspect of the game, you'd be calling for PGI to give those same team strategy tools that you use to players.

Just putting this here before that same vocal community does; they will just say "Get on TS and form up a group."

What they don't realize is that there are a LOT of players that don't want to have to run third party software just to be able to communicate with their team....and there are many others that do not have the time to sit and wait in a TS lobby just to form up a group.

In-game VOIP would be a huge relief for many of these players. However, I still think the MM is never going to function properly as long as grouped players are allowed to play with solo players.

[Syllogy]

MWO PUG Rule #1: If my team wins it's because I'm awesome; if my team loses it's because the other team has premades.

Pro Tip: In most cases, there is no reliable way to tell which team has premades and which team doesn't.

[Grey Death Storm]

To Try and address the point i am trying make

I am a PUG okay individual player goes into the game have fun, one big problems with PUGS is lack of communication. Have you tried to type a messages in middle battle when you got someone taking pot shots at you, have any idea how infuriating that is. Also you don't have time type and warn player when their about to do something stupid, everyone does not know each other in the team, working as a team really depends on who is listening.and how skilled each player is.

Now Guys I don't have a problem with 12 vs 12 however it makes t is a lot harder for PUGs to win battle as it all comes as it all comes down to each players skill and experience ! and if you have weak players in the game the pressure builds up on the more experienced players. In 12 vs 12 Killing 3 Pre made clan will not turn the tide in battle every time i go look at score board I have noticed about 6 -7 players in my team are dead and the other team has pretty much 8 lances left. 8 vs 8 you kill 3 the player you can turn the tide in the battle but not 12 vs 12.

My Idea is

have filter option so the player can decide if he wants play 12 vs 12 or 8 vs 8
Split the group so Clan VS Clan and PUG Vs PUG

if we don't sort this out new players will turn away from the game because get fed up being brutally defeated in battle by organised Pre made clans.

Edited by Death Storm, 23 October 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[Wolfyop]

why dont they put a sign telling that a player is in a premade? WOT have this and I dont see it as a bad thing.

[WarHippy]

Death Storm, on 23 October 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

To Try and address the point i am trying make

I am a PUG okay individual player goes into the game have fun, one big problems with PUGS is lack of communication. Have you tried to type a messages in middle battle when you got someone taking pot shots at you, have any idea how infuriating that is. Also you don't have time type and warn player when their about to do something stupid, everyone does not know each other in the team, working as a team really depends on who is listening.and how skilled each player is.

Now Guys I don't have a problem with 12 vs 12 however it makes t is a lot harder for PUGs to win battle as it all comes as it all comes down to each players skill and experience ! and if you have weak players in the game the pressure builds up on the more experienced players. In 12 vs 12 Killing 3 Pre made clan will not turn the tide in battle every time i go look at score board I have noticed about 6 -7 players in my team are dead and the other team has pretty much 8 lances left. 8 vs 8 you kill 3 the player you can turn the tide in the battle but not 12 vs 12.

My Idea is

have filter option so the player can decide if he wants play 12 vs 12 or 8 vs 8
Split the group so Clan VS Clan and PUG Vs PUG

if we don't sort this out new players will turn away from the game because get fed up being brutally defeated in battle by organised Pre made clans.

You seem to be confused. There is already a separate queue for 12v12, all other groups are 4 people or less(which is stupid because it should be any size up to 11 with pugs to fill spots). If one side has a group of 4 then the other side probably has a group of 3 or 4 as well. As for myself I almost exclusively drop alone, but I am not seeing the pug stomps you are talking about. Almost every game ends in 12 to 8ish kill victory with some random caps thrown in. Very rarely do I see 12-0 or 12-2 stomps.

[Grey Death Storm]

WarHippy, on 23 October 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

You seem to be confused. There is already a separate queue for 12v12, all other groups are 4 people or less(which is stupid because it should be any size up to 11 with pugs to fill spots). If one side has a group of 4 then the other side probably has a group of 3 or 4 as well. As for myself I almost exclusively drop alone, but I am not seeing the pug stomps you are talking about. Almost every game ends in 12 to 8ish kill victory with some random caps thrown in. Very rarely do I see 12-0 or 12-2 stomps.

NO that not what i mean

I said can we have an option so we can play as Team of 8 vs 8

and 12 vs 12

for example Your team has 8 player and the enemy team has 8 players i am not interested in the 4 alpha, bravo, epsilon squads , do i need to draw it in a picture using craine

Edited by Death Storm, 23 October 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[WarHippy]

Death Storm, on 23 October 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

NO that not what i mean

I said can we have an option so he can play as Team of 8 vs 8

and 12 vs 12

You want to go back to 8v8? What does that have to do with your complaint about pugs and pre-mades? I personally find 12v12 more enjoyable than 8v8 ever was.

[Grey Death Storm]

WarHippy, on 23 October 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

You want to go back to 8v8? What does that have to do with your complaint about pugs and pre-mades? I personally find 12v12 more enjoyable than 8v8 ever was.

Look have you read My original post go back and read it !