171 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 October 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Well they did sell Marauder IICs to Barber's Marauder IIs! SO I would say No. They would only sell them to trusted allies.

And i assume with "trusted allies" you do not mean noob players coming straight from the academy but big a big wallet, quineg?

[Lukoi Banacek]

As noted by others, the bias in tbe poll and lack of enough reasonable options, makes it so I can't vote on the topic.

[Hellcat420]

Christof Romulus, on 29 October 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

Here's an idea for balancing Clan mechs to IS mechs:

IS drops with 12
Clan drops with 8

No sharing tech. All Omni-mech rules apply (aside from weapons, ZERO customization allowed - no armor changes, no engine changes)

As for salvage and IS getting Clan weapons I have no idea. The SECOND I can get a Clan ERPPC it's going straight onto my Atlas though. =P

so you want to enforce omni mech rules but continue to ignore the classic mech rules? that wont work.

[CyclonerM]

Hellcat420, on 30 October 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

so you want to enforce omni mech rules but continue to ignore the classic mech rules? that wont work.

PGI chose this way. And actually it would help lessening the Battlemechs' disadvantages..

[Hellcat420]

CyclonerM, on 30 October 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

PGI chose this way. And actually it would help lessening the Battlemechs' disadvantages..

clan equiptment is not going to be the same as tabletop. pgi already stated they are "inventing" their own clan stuff how it should have been in their eyes. if you keep the omni restrictions while continuing to ignore classic mech restrictions omnis are going to be at a big disadvantage.

[Nathan Bloodguard]

My opinion:

Clan tech should be kept to clan factions.

Clan tech would be expensive, rather by c-bill currency or the other currency about to state below:
-Instead of C-Bills, make them use something like "Honor Points" to purchase upgrades, weapons, mechs, and all the other stuff that you would want to get. Honor points would be determined by how you play, following the rules of Zellbrigen. Kinda like damage is for C-bills currently. Shooting at an opponent that hasn't been hit by an ally in x time frame would get you more points. Killing an opponent over your weight (that hasn't been hit by another ally in x time) would get you even more "honor points". This would be to encourage playing more like the clans, which would give the Inner Sphere the edge that they had in lore. To aid the clans in this, I would also suggest something so they can tell if it is honorable to shoot at a target or not, as issuing challenges would be difficult to say the least.

Make a salvage system so that an Inner Sphere player might be able to salvage the better tech (or even mechs if they get enough parts to make it) and use it on there mechs. I would also suggest an installment fee for all changes in the mech lab, with clan tech upgrades being the most expensive or a form or repair and rearm.

Also add in a form of repair and rearm (with stipulation stated above), where either the clan tech that gets blown up would be more c-bills to repair or (if damaged bad enough) might need replacement (hope you salvage the replacement you need...).

Keep the tech "OP", but lessen the number of clan mechs. Also could use a tonnage limiter of some sorts, so that the clan players don't throw down a 10 Dire Wolf vs a mix of 12 Inner Sphere mechs ranging in weight from 20-100.

I think the 10 Vs 12 would be good, then add in something like a 25% or more tonnage difference between the two giving the inner sphere team more weight. Remember the clans tried to bid the lowest force possible to fight, to grant more honor.

Now before you say that these things would be to restricting, remember that the clans had a very strict and ridged way of dealing with its affairs.

Edit: PS: couldn't vote as my idea for the clan tech is different then what is there...

Edited by Nathan Bloodguard, 30 October 2013 - 01:35 PM.

[Nathan Bloodguard]

As an additional note:
I do realize that as time progresses with the salvage system, that the gap between the Inner Sphere and Clans will slowly diminish, as it did in lore. The Inner Sphere will slowly be fielding weapons closer and closer to the clans, and maybe even have some clan mechs. I would then suggest that the strictness of the clans be lessened as they would view the inner sphere as unhonorable opponents, just like in lore. Also I would then suggest that the gap in weight be lessened also if not evened, however never lose the 10 vs 12 disadvantage, as that's just the structure of the twos military (clans being in groups of 5 and inner sphere in groups of 4)

[Tesunie]

Here is my take on Clan Omni mechs and how I feel they should be added into the game.

1. Anyone can use them, but teams drop by all Clan or IS teams. It can be Clan vs Clan, IS vs IS or Clan vs IS. CLans can drop in 10 man teams, and IS 12 man. This would provide good balance and be two stars verse 3 lances, which is common size units for each.

2. Clan tech on Clan mechs only. Clan tech didn't really start shifting over to IS mechs till very late in the invasion. Even then, they normally started to fit into IS omni-mechs. (Basically, leave Clan tech for Omni mechs only.)

3. When it comes to customizing a Clan mech, you can only customize the limited "Pod Space", making customizations harder and more limiting. This means that your engine size, armor standards, etc are hard built into the mech. You can add anything into the Pod space, including ammo, Heat Sinks, and weapons (any type). The disadvantages of this is that you can't gain more room for different weapons. The advantage of this is that you can place anything you want on the mech. (There are no/few variants of a Clan mech.)

4. Customizations of Clan mechs are saved as a configuration. You can save multiple configurations on a single clan mech. (You can save probably 3 configurations per mech itself or something.) Then, you can quickly change between configurations with a quick click of a button.

5. Here is the key to the Clan mechs and their advantage to counter their disadvantages. When you load into a map, you can select any configuration you own for your selected mech, unlike IS mechs which you are stuck with no mater which map you land on. This means that you can have up to three (or however many configurations you can save) choices to choose from before the match begins, with knowledge of which map you are going onto. This leads to you being able to shoot that AC/Gauss build for a hot map, or switch quickly over to your CERPPC and laser configuration for that flat cold map. Then, if the map is instead a normal temp map with nice LRM lanes, you can change over to the LRM configuration you have set up.

As a side note, some mechs will have certain things built hard into the mech. Like I believe that the Tundrawolf/Madcat has a set of hard built int CMGs along it's nose, with probably a ton of ammo as well. This weapon can not be changed out, as it is not in a piece of pod space. But the Arm mounted weapons can be changed out for anything as that is pod space. The Pouncer (I think, or is it Puma?), has a built in Flamer somewhere, and it wouldn't be able to be removed as it isn't in it's POD space. Recall though the strength of not only technological edge that the Clans will have, but you will also be able to change your Configuration to the map at hand, like what was so strong about the Omni-mech. It will be a good balancing feature to provide Clan mechs a different flavor in game on a mech basis.

My understanding of Omni-mechs are that they have pod space that can be changed, but if you change anything else on the mech, it looses it's Omni abilities and becomes a standard mech. I would like to see this honored somehow in the game.

[rolly]

Roland, on 29 October 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Against level one tech, clan tech absolutely obliterates inner sphere stuff, even 12v10. It isn't even close.

On top of that, you have all kinds of clan honor nonsense which is impossible to implement in game.

And even with all of those extra restrictions, the clans basically mopped the floor with the inner sphere until they ran into ComStar fielding star league era technology.

Well I'm not so sure about that. Introducing clan would in effect make a great reason to push and reward more cooperative teamwork and communications between IS players. (I know, I know, but hope springs eternal...)

Keep in mind too that the odd occasions that the IS did win was when it tactically outsmarted the clanners or used their rules of engagement against them. It just wasn't about better Lostech, since Comstar only engaged them in one epic battle. There was also other examples by non Comstar forces such as Luthien, or Twycross.

What I think would help balance is enforcing clan rules of engagement and "honour system". Not only does Vic have a great point by limiting hard chassis selection by clanners, but he opens up a wealth of possibilities for balancing.

Possible Checks & Balances

- Finally have role warfare where IS TAG units, ECM/ECCM,NARC hits give noticeable credit or XP bonus
- Using Seismic sensors/ arty or airstrikes to help IS teammates gives you a bonus
- Being a Lone Wolf or Merc Company AND running clan tech should be costly in C-bills. This will reduce the likelihood of non-stop IS players spamming clan mechs. Maintaining, or repairing even an IS chassis with broken clan tech will be harder.
- Skew MM to have a percentage of Clan tech or pure clan mechs by non Clan players.

- Clan players get an initial bonus for challenging & defeating an enemy unit in single combat
- No bonus for saviour kills, focusing fire or "kill stealing" - ( Encourage players to play clan specific rules of engagement where it hurts, -> credit or XP bonus)
- Tonnage/BV bonus, the greater difference in tonnage/BV/etc between you and the enemy nets a higher bonus if you defeat them.
- Encourage/enforce clan specific variants - Ie. Ammo dependent variant/configs that match the clan style of quick short fights, not long engagements. Ie. Jade Falcon. This might also reduce ERLL Boating too?

Perhaps too introduce a third currency of "Honour" for Clan players. This way there is incentive and a mitigating factor that raises or lowers a clan players status. Or make these challenge/achievements for Clan Specific and IS specific players.

Anyhoo, right on Vic. Kudos for bringing this up.

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 30 October 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

And i assume with "trusted allies" you do not mean noob players coming straight from the academy but big a big wallet, quineg?

That depends on the "Trusted allies" If the Dragoons have a agreement with say... The Kellhounds (Official run Mercs), then if a Boot gets into the unit, he/she would have all the perks that comes with membership. To reverse the question, if you were a Dragoon would you want just anyone getting Clan Tech say... Waco's Rangers?

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 October 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

That depends on the "Trusted allies" If the Dragoons have a agreement with say... The Kellhounds (Official run Mercs), then if a Boot gets into the unit, he/she would have all the perks that comes with membership. To reverse the question, if you were a Dragoon would you want just anyone getting Clan Tech say... Waco's Rangers?

I assume the new low-rank recruit does not get usually a new Omninech.
In fact in CW i would like to see the Dragoon's faction which rewards loyalty with Clan tech eventually. You have to earn a good amount of LPs (=much time) with all the factions and then with the Dragoons in order to get a Mad Cat or a Daishi. If you are not willing then you can freely use those tin boxes the Spheroids dare call "Mechs"

P.S. Waco's Rangers? Why not the Kuritans?

[Joseph Mallan]

CyclonerM, on 31 October 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

I assume the new low-rank recruit does not get usually a new Omninech.
In fact in CW i would like to see the Dragoon's faction which rewards loyalty with Clan tech eventually. You have to earn a good amount of LPs (=much time) with all the factions and then with the Dragoons in order to get a Mad Cat or a Daishi. If you are not willing then you can freely use those tin boxes the Spheroids dare call "Mechs"

P.S. Waco's Rangers? Why not the Kuritans?

Waco had a hate on before the Kuritans IIRC. Part of the Death to Mercs Kurita order was due to the Dragoons. I agree though just because I join the Dragoons does not mean I have earned their trust/loyalty.

[CyclonerM]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 October 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Waco had a hate on before the Kuritans IIRC. Part of the Death to Mercs Kurita order was due to the Dragoons. I agree though just because I join the Dragoons does not mean I have earned their trust/loyalty.

Meh, Wolves on the Border was my fist novel and i understood Jaime Wolf and Takashi Kurita have never been great friends either

That is what i mean. But maybe their trueborns may get Omnimechs..?

[JudgeDeathCZ]

NO
It should make sense from lore point of view BUT it make no sense from game view.F2P should not restrict ppl with what mech they want to play bcuz of faction/sex/age/whatever bcuz then it is not F2P T_T .

[dal10]

only easy way to balance them is to not allow intertech fighting.

[ImperialKnight]

Omnimechs, by lore, have built in balances. Their engine, internal structure and armor are ALL hard-wired. If PGI went this way, meaning no hardpoints on omnimechs, you can equip whatever the hell you want as long as you have pod space and remove the ability to change the engine, internal structure and armor, it would be a good balance.

[Kenyon Burguess]

if the tech isn't shared by everyone and gets limited to certain factions, there is going to be huge issues later. don't cry when multiple RACS show up on IS mechs only and clan CT armor melts in one button push http://www.sarna.net...tary_Autocannon

[CyclonerM]

Geist Null, on 31 October 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

if the tech isn't shared by everyone and gets limited to certain factions, there is going to be huge issues later. don't cry when multiple RACS show up on IS mechs only and clan CT armor melts in one button push http://www.sarna.net...tary_Autocannon

Again, you would have to wait at least 12 years to have them if they keep the 1:1 timeline.
And with the new 3060+ tech the Inner Sphere only reduces the gap with Clan tech.

[Joseph Mallan]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 31 October 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

NO
It should make sense from lore point of view BUT it make no sense from game view.F2P should not restrict ppl with what mech they want to play bcuz of faction/sex/age/whatever bcuz then it is not F2P T_T .

Its called making choices. If you want to play with clan toys, you join a Clan. If you wanna beat on Clans then you o it with your own toys. You are free to play which ever faction you wish, just make sure you understand what that means.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 31 October 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Nathan Bloodguard]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 31 October 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

NO
It should make sense from lore point of view BUT it make no sense from game view.F2P should not restrict ppl with what mech they want to play bcuz of faction/sex/age/whatever bcuz then it is not F2P T_T .

I assume F2P is Free To Play, and how would restricting Clan mechs to those that are representing the clans break F2P? It would mean that you would either have to choose between playing Inner Sphere or Clans, for the drop purposes. Also note, we never said that you couldn't freely switch between the two (Aka: have two 'sub-profiles' in your profile, one for Clans and one for Inner Sphere). You wouldn't have to pay anything to play either faction, just not be able to mix the tech of the two factions.

Example: I can't ride a vulture while representing House Marik, but I could if I'm representing Clan Wolf. I couldn't take my Centurion out for a spin while I'm representing Clan Wolf, but I could if I'm representing House Marik. (Unless, of course, they implement salvage, and you manage to salvage one for either side, but the clans wouldn't use Inner Sphere tech as theirs is superior...)

Edited by Nathan Bloodguard, 31 October 2013 - 08:33 AM.