43 replies to this topic

[Geek Verve]

Never figured myself to be a huge fan of missile boats, but since the Cat K2 is one of my favorite mechs right now (PPC build), I figured I'd get as much variety out of the Catapult chassis as I can, while working on getting my elite.

So, I bought a C4 and loaded it up with a couple LRM20's, couple of MPL's and all the missiles I can carry. Let me just say that this is the most frustrating game experience I've had in MWO by far. Seriously, I'll take four READY buttons and a match full of 12-year-olds over this. In PUG's, everyone seems to spaz out, bouncing from target to target (farming assists, no doubt), so I get no locks - heck, many don't even take the time to lock the target they're working on burning down. Not to mention that a few of the maps like Terra Therma are nearly impossible to use LRM's on. Most of my volleys are completely wasted, either from hitting a mountain side or the lock dropping. I tried moving on into the battle a bit more to acquire my own locks, but there is absolutely zero support.

I cannot wait to get the basics done on this thing, as I can't sell it soon enough. I guess missile support is just not for me.

/rant off

[Koniving]

It happens. Even harder for an A1 boat.


But if LRMs are not your thing, try this build I recently made. Since I'm quoting the entire Catapult selection, the C4 build I'm referring to is called "No More Games."

Koniving, on 07 October 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

Catapults:

• Inevitably Superior to the K2 in all Endeavors. C1-built K2 mockery, also dubbed the IS-T-K2-AE or pronounced: "Ist-ka-2-eh?" As the title implies, it is essentially a C1 demonstrating its superior ability to play the role of a K2 in either an AC/40-style rig (as penalties will NOT attack it) or as mockery of the stock K2 by showing itself capable of leaping shots and reaching locations that the K2 cannot.
  
• Kon's personal Ist-ka-2-eh. A brawling form of the IS-T-K2-AE, this rig has been my C1 of choice for a long time. Its twin small pulse lasers are rapid fangs to take a bite into what the ER PPCs have opened up for quicker kills.
  
• Kitty 2's Got Bite. A K2 unorthodox build utilizing pop-can mechanics. Fry armor with PPCs to pop the top, then close in and feast on their innards.
  
• Hi-Five Kitty Gimme Two! A fast brawling K2 designed to run in and hit hard. When heat gets high, fire only the AC/5s.
  
• The Lazy Puss. A slow, fat, lazy kitty that when it can be bothered to do something... the entire enemy team will rage.
  
• The Missile Game A C4 rig revolving around being a high speed missile launcher.
  
• The Missile Game Mark II relies on faster but smaller torrents of missiles. When accompanied with the original, the two can make a devastating pair. Mark II drains the target, the original obliterates it. In return, when close combat ensues the Mark II is the one who gets the kills.
  
• No More Games; a C4 that isn't playing around anymore. Unlike the original and Mark II, "No More Games" is close range only and is made to obliterate enemies from around assault mechs without screwing around or toying with them. I used it when I'm grumpy.
  
• The ROFLpult Need not say more, do I?

Random endorsement:

Azargo, on 06 October 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Also look at Kon and get inspired. A master of unorthodox weaponry, he successfully runs builds that are a blasphemy to even look upon in mechlab (for more conservative pilots like myself ), and is a living proof that you can always acquaint yourself with any odd-looking setup, so far as you're willing to invest the time necessary to get used to it.

Image (almost) unrelated

Edited by Koniving, 07 October 2013 - 09:50 PM.

[Lord Letto]

go Splatcat if no LRM Boat, give it a try at least.
FYI, Splatcat is a Catapult SRM Boat.

Edited by Lord Letto, 08 October 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[Roughneck45]

You could put PPCs and streaks on it.

[Dawnstealer]

It also has a lot to do with the fact that the people who are spotting are probably faster, lighter mechs. If you're playing with friends or teammates, you're more likely to "take one for the team" and stand there and get plastered to hold that lock.

I've been on both sides of that equation, in PUGs and otherwise.

For example, I run a Cicada and Spider that both sacrifice an energy hardpoint for a TAG. And I'll sit there and lock a target and TAG them and then Commander Missileboat will fire at a Jenner or something else that they have zero chance of hitting. And I'll just sit there, locking in the DDC...as it waddles towards me...trying to hold the lock...and then I'm a crater.

So part of it in PUGs is self-preservation and being on the other side of the coin. As a spotter, do you trust the other guy to actually take advantage of your locks and TAGs? When they do? It's amazing.

You just see three or so LRM boats rain down on targets in a focused manner and blow them into the ground. But like the guy that's willing to sit there and get shot so you can land your LRMs? It doesn't happen very often.

[Geek Verve]

Thanks, Kon. I may give something along the "No More Games" build a shot. It may satisfy another interest I have as well in a build for "killing all lights, everywhere". Those things just make me so angry!

Lord Letto, on 08 October 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

go Splatcat if no LRM Boat, give it a try at least.
FYI, Splatcat is a Catapult SRM Boat.

I'll give that some thought. Thanks.

Roughneck45, on 08 October 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

You could put PPCs and streaks on it.

True, but I already have a 2xPPC Cat build that is one of my favorites. I'd prefer to vary it a bit within the same chassis line.

[TheCrazySteve]

Best solution I've found to the locking problem in pugs is to just run smaller more mobile lrm mechs. I have had a trebuchet with 2alrm, and have recently changed into the kintaro-20 due to its amazing torso twist abilities. Both have served me very well.

The speed lets you start the fight closer to the front, providing your own locks, and then quickly retreating or finding a new firing points.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

You really gotta get your own locks in PUG matches. Bring a tag, hang near the back of the deathball and only fire missiles at your own locks. however, you can say something like, "please hold targets for LRM support" at the start of a match and sometimes you get good locks. Another tip, if you see a lock light up (not your own), hit 'q' (or is it 'r', I flipped my bindings of those two?) to see the info on what kind of mech the lock is on. If it's a light, don't waste your missiles, just get your own lock or look for another, heavier lock. Also always artemis with lrm boats.

[mailin]

When I run an LRM boat in a pug match, or any match for that matter, I always type in team chat "I have (number) lrms looking for a new home. Please help me out by locking targets and I'll send the rain". It doesn't always work, but very often I will get a response from my teammates. Similarly, when I'm in a light with TAG, I will typically ask if anyone has lrms. If I get affirmatives to that, I let them know that I have TAG. I know the lrm boats appreciate this, and it also lets them know to look for the tag symbol, because hopefully that lock won't go away so soon.

[mailin]

Steve, the thing that I don't like about using a Kintaro or Cent for lrms is that they don't have the weight available to equip a lot of ammo. My Stalker has 2160 missiles. I can literally start firing as soon as the enemy is in range and, as long as none of my ammo gets destroyed, I can maintain steady and continuous fire until the match is over.

[MortVent]

Ya might want to run the smaller ones, learn to conserve ammo.

Take good shots, not spam rain and waste ammo. Wasted ammo is ammo ya didn't need to bring

[Fuerchtegott]

Geek Verve, on 07 October 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

So, I bought a C4 and loaded it up with a couple LRM20's, couple of MPL's and all the missiles I can carry.

Seriously, I'll take four READY buttons and a match full of 12-year-olds over this.

In PUG's, everyone seems to spaz out, bouncing from target to target (farming assists, no doubt), so I get no locks - heck, many don't even take the time to lock the target they're working on burning down.

/rant off

Many LRM boat pilots will tell you to use artemis, because of the more focussed damage.
If you don't tell you're a LRM boat, noone needs to hold their locks so for long.
And even when you tell them in chat, a spotter - lrmboat relationship, at least true and meaningfull ones, require teamspeak, like any other merriage too.
Why? Because sometimes the spotter can't hold a lock or isn't sure, whatever, he needs to tell his rocket throwing wife so.
There is even more a LRM boat needs, a advanced target decay module for example, because, I know you know it, locks tend to get lost, thanks to that module a few seconds later.
And seconds matter very much for a projectile that travels at 120 m/s which means 5 seconds to reach a 600 m far away target.
Most important, spotting isn't soo well rewarded, lrm work best, when you apply a tag laser to your missleboat.
Don't fire at long distances, and while you, when following those advises, are most of the time in medium range and with los, drop those mpl and take 4 meds, they'll help you finish of, what you missiles soften up way better than mpl.

Edited by Fuerchtegott, 08 October 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Helwintr]

I've been using lrms since closed beta. if you're on a large open map (caustic, alpine, and even forest colony) there are a lot of good spots that can give you a good open view to achieve your own locks. the problem with this is that what spots you can go to depend largely on where your team and your enemies team goes. cause there is nothing a scout mech (or a couple of them) likes better than a lone isolated lrm boat to torment and pick apart. so if your are on your own (pugging) placement and proximity of friendly mechs is the key. there are a couple pieces of equipment I recommend for a pug lrm boat. tag(helps break ecm), beagle and any sensor range module will help spot targets, and target decay helps keep locks if you can't get a sustained spot. even pugging I've seen scout mechs ask if anyone has lrms. cause if a light pilots knows they'll get lrm support if they keep a lock they'll do it. (nothing is more aggravating than dancing with a light mech and getting pummeled with lrms. other than that just knowing the maps really well and how the terrain can inhibit them is good.

[Kjudoon]

I'm not the greatest of shots yet, so I love me my LRMs. I put em on pretty much everything, even my lights. To my knowledge once you fire, if you have lock, you don't lose lock, or at least that's what my hit indicators have been showing. Terra Therma can be frustrating, I do admit that because of the high mountains. Tourmaline Desert is very iffy because of the huge crystal formations at an angle. The best three maps for LRMs IMHO is (in order)

Caustic Valley
Alpine Peaks
River City

Yes, you need to tell people to get locks for you, and they won't because they're too busy going twitch munchkin or just don't care. Remember how often targeting is lost by lack of LOS by another mech. Sometimes that flickering target is just somebody popping up, firing and going back down out of sight so you can't get that lock. I probably waste 15% of my loadout trying to get these, or firing with something in the way or whatever... it happens. LRMS feel it more. Make sure to get BAP on that as well. Artemis only works when YOU see the target, which with an LRM boat shouldn't be visible to the target as much using indirect fire.

If you reallly can't stand this though, cut your LRMs in half, put in SRM6 and go trucking on in. Works great.

Edited by Kjudoon, 08 October 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[wintersborn]

I am sure there are better pilots than myself but in PUG's I have found the bigger mechs to be better at LRM support. I say support because if you run off alone looking for solo kills you are not as effective with LRMs.

I briefly tried the C4? and found that I did not have enough ammo for 12 mans and died a lot due to tonnage.

I found the Stalker 3H to be a better suit for me but I am still interested in a Streak cat but the Kint 18 (too ugly for me)seems to be better for the light killing role. The Awesome 8R (60 tube salvo)also looked good but the Highlander 733 (40 tube salvo) has the tonnage and Jump jets but with fewer tubes.

I always TAG and use Artemis in PUG's.

I wish the ECM atlas had 2M slots and (20x2) tubes

Edited by wintersborn, 08 October 2013 - 10:41 AM.

[Geek Verve]

Kjudoon, on 08 October 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

If you reallly can't stand this though, cut your LRMs in half, put in SRM6 and go trucking on in. Works great.

That is almost exactly what I did. I was able to squeeze in a couple of matches at lunch today, and the difference was significant. I cut it to 2x15LRM and 2x4SRM. When I exhausted my LRM ordinance, I went on the prowl. At that point much of the enemy mechs left had been softened up a bit, so I wasn't rounding corners to find myself face to face with a 100% Atlas.

I think this is going to make it bearable, while maxing the basics on it. I may revisit LRM boating in the future, as it's clear that I need more practice with it. Some have mentioned TAG, but to me that's just a bit flashing "Hey, if you're looking for your next target, look this way!" sign. BAP would be a good idea, but I would have trouble freeing up the slots/tonnage for it.

Thanks, everyone.

[wintersborn]

Well most new or PUG LRM boats stay in the back and rely on indirect (less effective but safer) LRM fire until they are out of ammo then move in with back up weapons. This to me is not a LRM support boat since that is what all Slow Assault mechs do if they have a LRM somewhere.

This is just using a long range indirect weapon and ammo until you get into LOS combat. I prefer to use LRM's as my main weapon all match to support the team but everyone has a favorite way of using them.

Edited by wintersborn, 08 October 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Kjudoon]

wintersborn, on 08 October 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Well most new or PUG LRM boats stay in the back and rely on indirect (less effective but safer) LRM fire until they are out of ammo then move in with back up weapons. This to me is not a LRM support boat since that is what all Slow Assault mechs do if they have a LRM somewhere.

This is just using a long range indirect weapon and ammo until you get into LOS combat. I prefer to use LRM's as my main weapon all match to support the team but everyone has a favorite way of using them.

Now that's the "No True Scotsman" argument. That is LRM support. What are LRMS? the mech version of mobile artillery.

[wintersborn]

Kjudoon, on 08 October 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Now that's the "No True Scotsman" argument. That is LRM support. What are LRMS? the mech version of mobile artillery.

Sorry I am not sure what the Scotsman argument is?

But it seems obvious that LRM's are indeed surface to surface indirect artillery to me at least.

Using long range weapons like LRM's or ERLL, ERPPC and Guass etc. "On the way" to the combat is not support since most of the pug is not there to support. You want to stay in the back and support the entire team the entire round making use of their targets and helping force cover or repel capping etc.

Some people use them to soften up a mech or two until they get to the main combat with the rest of the PUG.

[Kjudoon]

wintersborn, on 08 October 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Sorry I am not sure what the Scotsman argument is?

But it seems obvious that LRM's are indeed surface to surface indirect artillery to me at least.

Using long range weapons like LRM's or ERLL, ERPPC and Guass etc. "On the way" to the combat is not support since most of the pug is not there to support. You want to stay in the back and support the entire team the entire round making use of their targets and helping force cover or repel capping etc.

Some people use them to soften up a mech or two until they get to the main combat with the rest of the PUG.

The "No True Scotsman" argument is when you make a statement, usually an absolute, and then when an exception is found to it, you find a reason to create a justifed reason why they are not a valid example. It's based on the old joke of what a true scotsman is from back in the day and exceptions keep making the examples inelegible because a "real scotsman" blah blah blah. It wasn't a shot, it's just that what you call not LRM support, is. The same way the samurai called the Musket cowardly right up until they were slaughtered by them ending the discussion of what is the superior method of waging war. Many ways to win. This is one of em.

That's all.