185 replies to this topic

[Lykaon]

Sandpit, on 31 October 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

rofl

i clicked on the link thinking, "Oh my, THIS should be good!" and you my friend did not fail to deliver. Good call for yet another "assault (insert exagerrated adjective here) and needs to the fixed" thread

You sir, have provided us with an entertaining thread for the weekend!

Begin slow clap in
5.....

So you do not experience the same?

Or is it you don't care if it occurs?

Or are you just "like that" and it can't be helped?

[Anjian]

This is how I look at the game right now.

The Real Assault Mechs: Atlas, Highlander, Stalker
The New Heavy Mechs: Battlemaster, Victor, Awesome, Orion
The New Medium Mechs: Quickdraw, Dragon, Jagermech, Catapult, Cataphract, Thunderbolt
The Tall, Skinny Mechs: Shadowhawk, Trebuchet, Centurion, Kintaro
The Dwarf Mechs: Hunchback, Cicada, Blackjack
The Little Annoying Mechs; Raven, Commando, Spider, Jenner

[Red squirrel]

mike29tw, on 03 November 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

The problem is a light or a heavy is better at every role you build for your medium mechs.

I disagree.
I strongly disagree.
I really, really totally disagree on that one!
Dude, you don't believe how strongly I disagree with you.

Anjian, on 03 November 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

This is how I look at the game right now.

The Real Assault Mechs: Atlas, Highlander, Stalker
The New Heavy Mechs: Battlemaster, Victor, Awesome, Orion
The New Medium Mechs: Quickdraw, Dragon, Jagermech, Catapult, Cataphract, Thunderbolt
The Tall, Skinny Mechs: Shadowhawk, Trebuchet, Centurion, Kintaro
The Dwarf Mechs: Hunchback, Cicada, Blackjack
The Little Annoying Mechs; Raven, Commando, Spider, Jenner

You forgot:
The useless mechs: Locust

And I would count the Cicada to the Little Annoying ones.

PS: Don't underestimate that Shadowhawk!

[Davers]

Tonnage limits will kill off medium mechs. 2 Hunchbacks are not equivalent to a Jenner and a Jager.

[Red squirrel]

Davers, on 03 November 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Tonnage limits will kill off medium mechs. 2 Hunchbacks are not equivalent to a Jenner and a Jager.

That is true. The Jenner is legged with one AC20 hit to the left leg and most Jagers I encounter use XL engines which makes them extremely vulnerable. So one Hunchback would get obliterated in the massive firepower of the 5AC2 / 4AC5 / dual Gauss JagerMech and the other Hunchback would ripp it's side torso apart and win the game for team Hunchy.


PS: I especially like the increased torso twist which allows you to aim at 360° with your arm mounted lazors.

Edited by Red squirrel, 03 November 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[Sandpit]

Lykaon, on 03 November 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

So you do not experience the same?

Or is it you don't care if it occurs?

Or are you just "like that" and it can't be helped?

No it's a "Oh yay, someone else complaining about somethign using all kinds of fallacies to "strengthen their cause."

If there were "too many assaults" you'd never see anything BUT assaults. If you think there are too many assaults don't pilot one. Don't use the argument of, "Well I have to in order to be competitive" either. I pilot all classes and do just fine. If I can do it, anyone can do it.

I see tons of other classes in the game being used all the time. I see lights, meds, heavies, and assaults. I see a LOT of people (and no I'm not pointing at anyone directly) looking for every reason possible to explain why they lose other than individual skill, tactics, builds, and strategies. I see a LOT of players looking for every scapegoat possible. Let me run you a quick list.
Reasons why players lose

• premades
  
• unfair builds
  
• poptarting
  
• op weapons
  
• nerfed weapons
  
• my team sucked
  
• too many (insert class here)
  
• spiders
  
• lights
  
• my team sucked
  
• premades
  
• matchmaking
  
• elo

That's just off the top of my head of what I've seen over the past 2-3 weeks. Nowhere in there do they look at their own skill and builds.

This thread plays right into that. How many posts are about the matchmaking, elo, and premades in this thread?

Sure a lot of people drive assaults. They're fun to stomp and shoot with and very forgiving to pilot error and poor tactics. Define "too many"? Is 3-4 in a match "too many"? Is 7? 8? 9?

Do you think the game would play any different if there were fewer assaults?

What difference does it make to anyone what someone else pilots in the first place? Why do you care what someone else likes to run around in? Do you go to other games and say "there's too many (inser class here)"? I doubt it. If you dont' like assaults then don't pilot them. You'll see less of them against you.

[Red squirrel]

@Sandpit

Indeed, especially when you pilot a light you tend to see much more light mechs.
Same but to a lesser extend for mediums.

The only point I disagree is the: "My team sucked"
Sometimes (not often but sometimes) PUG teams really suck.
When you do 600dmg and 3 kills and the next best team mebmer manages to do 79dmg and 1 assist.
These are the games I think: "My team sucked" Then I dive into another match and try to win.
Heck, I'm a really optimistic player. But if I start a game with two disconnected Atlas I get a bad feeling about the outcome
(altough you can still win if you face a terrible team)


About ELO: I'd really like to know where I am - skillwise.

Edited by Red squirrel, 03 November 2013 - 10:52 PM.

[mike29tw]

Red squirrel, on 03 November 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

I disagree.
I strongly disagree.
I really, really totally disagree on that one!
Dude, you don't believe how strongly I disagree with you.

Of course I don't because you're not even trying to convince me.

How about give me some reasons and arguements to work with? Which medium mech do you pilot, what is its build, and what role do you assign it that makes it so special none of the light or heavy can do a better job?

If your role is "a decoy that has the biggest volume/tonnage ratio", then I rest my case.

Edited by mike29tw, 03 November 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

Assaults are alright, ballistic boats still own, though.

[sokitumi]

i've been driving meds exclusively for months now. usually pugging. The only line i dont have is cent (and shadowhawk).

it's hilarious to me how under rated they are by the conventional wisdom on these forums. Meds pickup mobility and versatility that most heavies can't even approach.

Meds are about pilot skill, not firepower. A 30ish alpha going 90+kph > a slow boat with a 45+ alpha. A med trying to square off with a heavy deserves to explode. A med who choses his shots with smart cover and timing leads games. OR A med geared out as a light stomper, almost always gets the job done.

Edited by sokitumi, 04 November 2013 - 12:28 AM.

[Red squirrel]

mike29tw, on 03 November 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

Of course I don't because you're not even trying to convince me.

How about give me some reasons and arguements to work with? Which medium mech do you pilot, what is its build, and what role do you assign it that makes it so special none of the light or heavy can do a better job?

I own 5 Cicadas, 3 Blackjacks, 4 Hunchbacks, 3 Centurions, 3 Trebuchets, 3 Shadowhawks, and 1 Kintaro
I would say that half of these variants can be used successfully in competitive games.
There are so many loadouts and roles I've used over the last year (always changing with major patches) that - honestly - I am just to lazy to block this thread with a wall of text. Mainly because I really don't care about convincing you of anything. If you think meds suck - so be it.

mike29tw, on 03 November 2013 - 11:10 PM, said:

If your role is "a decoy that has the biggest volume/tonnage ratio", then I rest my case.

ROTFL That one really made me laugh.

[Red squirrel]

sokitumi, on 04 November 2013 - 12:09 AM, said:

i've been driving meds exclusively for months now. usually pugging. The only line i dont have is cent (and shadowhawk). it's hilarious to me how under rated they are by the conventional wisdom on these forums. Meds pickup mobility and versatility that most heavies can't even approach. Meds are about pilot skill, not firepower. A 30ish alpha going 90+kph > a slow boat with a 45+ alpha. A med trying to square off with a heavy deserves to explode. A med who choses his shots with smart cover and timing leads games. OR A med geared out as a light stomper, almost always gets the job done.

You should really get a Shadowhawk - it's awesome. It almost feels like cheating.
I mostly use it as a jump jetting Hunchback-4G with more armor and a little less speed.


I especially like how you say: "conventional wisdom on these forums"
I think many people mix up "Does not suit my way to pilot" with "Must be useless for everyone"
I for one pilot nothing above 80 tons (usaully Cataphract is my heaviest, but I do like to play with handicap = use an Awesome) as the play style of the Assault mechs just does not suit my way to pilot mechs and the tactics I like to use (flanking, harrasing, etc...)

[Wispsy]

Red squirrel, on 04 November 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

I own 5 Cicadas, 3 Blackjacks, 4 Hunchbacks, 3 Centurions, 3 Trebuchets, 3 Shadowhawks, and 1 Kintaro
I would say that half of these variants can be used successfully in competitive games.
There are so many loadouts and roles I've used over the last year (always changing with major patches) that - honestly - I am just to lazy to block this thread with a wall of text. Mainly because I really don't care about convincing you of anything. If you think meds suck - so be it.




ROTFL That one really made me laugh.

just because you own a lot of mediums does not make them viable in competitive play...
The Shadowhawk is pretty much the only one and only because it has every advantage that you would look for in a mech, which has not been given to any heavies or assaults. Shadowhawk is to mediums like a stalker with jjs would be to assaults. This is why it is just about usable.

[Musashi Alexander]

Don't see why they just don't add class specific bonuses - higher values for dmg/kills in Assaults/Heavies, higher for spotting/assisting in lights, increase tag/narc in lights and mediums, add capping bonuses for lights and mediums, etc

Or increase bonuses by class, i.e. Assault dmg = 1x bonus, Heavy dmg = 1.1x bonus, Med dmg 1.2x bonus, Light dmg 1.3x bonus,

There should be no punishment in terms of earnings or XP for taking our a light or medium and doing well in it. In fact, it should be incentivised beyond 'there will one day be weight restrictions and lights and mediums will be useful as a way to reduce overall team tonnage'

[Joseph Mallan]

DaZur, on 31 October 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

Doesn't everyone pilot an assault?

There are a lot more folk (myself included) who could not pilot an assault out of a wet paper bag... and are far more productive in heavies and lights...

Mediums are still our red head step-mechs however...

You know this is due to Mediums being Jacks of all trades, masters of none. What can a Medium do that a Light, Heavy or Assault cannot do better?

[Henry Morgan]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 November 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

You know this is due to Mediums being Jacks of all trades, masters of none. What can a Medium do that a Light, Heavy or Assault cannot do better?

We don't know what's coming with the factions, but if they decide to make the drops more tight, in regards to weight classes, or tonnage, the mediums might see more action then.

[Joseph Mallan]

Henry Morgan, on 04 November 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

We don't know what's coming with the factions, but if they decide to make the drops more tight, in regards to weight classes, or tonnage, the mediums might see more action then.

And that would be a good thing why? Right now only those who are somewhat successful use mediums, force those who aren't into them and much crying will ensue. Mediums will never be the badash we read about, frankly because they are medium.

[Henry Morgan]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 November 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

And that would be a good thing why? Right now only those who are somewhat successful use mediums, force those who aren't into them and much crying will ensue. Mediums will never be the badash we read about, frankly because they are medium.

True, Mediums in their present state can be challenging, and fun to play. And there's some things they could fix to make them a bit more fun, like not making them the size of assaults. Or by making support functionality in the game a bit more rewarding than just pure DPS.

But then again, the jack of all trades is something a medium can do better than some of the other classes. And with the ebbs and flow of a battle, with random maps, that sort of versatility can be a plus.

However, its all about giving the players choices and finding something fun that suits their play style.

[Sandpit]

Quote

@Sandpit

Indeed, especially when you pilot a light you tend to see much more light mechs.
Same but to a lesser extend for mediums.

The only point I disagree is the: "My team sucked"
Sometimes (not often but sometimes) PUG teams really suck.
When you do 600dmg and 3 kills and the next best team mebmer manages to do 79dmg and 1 assist.
These are the games I think: "My team sucked" Then I dive into another match and try to win.
Heck, I'm a really optimistic player. But if I start a game with two disconnected Atlas I get a bad feeling about the outcome
(altough you can still win if you face a terrible team)


About ELO: I'd really like to know where I am - skillwise.

Now don't get me wrong, I know SOMEtimes its you team but not nearly as often as some would like to believe

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 November 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

You know this is due to Mediums being Jacks of all trades, masters of none. What can a Medium do that a Light, Heavy or Assault cannot do better?

In short... support, harass and hunt...

IMHO the biggest problem with Mediums is the present end-game and the player bases' propensity to try and play them as heavies or lights...

Mediums die quickly because "most" medium pilots try to straight-up battle assaults and heavies when their have neither enough firepower or armor to compete... Or they try to out-light lights and find they are neither fast enough nor present a diminutive enough target profile to avoid most incoming fire...

Mediums are best utilize to support the the assaults, heavies and lights... and when I say support, I mean ranged support... sitting back and supporting the heavies and assaults and or light-hunting to keep them off the the heavies and assaults or providing cover for capping lights...

In short... Medium pilots need to know their battlefield role.

Medium excel in the outlier roles it's intended to fill... Sadly, PGI has done little to incentify mediums to be used as they were intended and as a result, player keep trying to play them like heavies and lights where for all but the most skilled and dedicated... they fail.

Why the community inteligencia are unable to grasp this and instead continue to forward the premise that Mediums sux is beyond me...

Edited by DaZur, 04 November 2013 - 07:22 AM.