75 replies to this topic

[Sand Lantern]

Scanz, on 04 November 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

remove team chat after death
add "free fly" spectator mode after death
plx

This only further gives an advantage to groups with coms.

[EoRaptor]

Matthew Craig, on 04 November 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Thanks for the feedback on the current value that allowing windowed to full-screen transition is providing it's good to hear that it is helpful much of the time. We'll look at it and see if we can retain an option to continue to use that mode, but I can't promise anything.

To better explain the issues that arise during the transition with the current system; during the transition into game we currently have to call functions to re-size the screen buffers. This can contribute to edge cases, the game needs code to handle failure cases, if you Alt-tab during load it can change behavior which can be different for DX9 and 11. Given there has been much complaint about users not making it into game (showing as a disconnected player) anything we can do to help reduce the likelihood for that seems to be a win.

Ultimately this is not that hard to maintain in the new system as an option, but anything we retain as an official option needs to be dealt with by QA which means we have to consistently test these edge cases that may be low user path.

Another factor in this decision is that not many games make use of a windowed to full-screen transition so the engine code to handle these transitions, ends up being largely custom code we have to craft into any future engine updates in a way that doesn't break functionality.

Also as you're all aware the mouse capturing in the current engine is 'frustrating' to say the least and another reason to simplify this flow is to help allow us to quickly clean up that behavior. All this said though I'm not trying to dictate the flow and I'm open to facilitating the community, perhaps you could explain in more detail what the current flow allows you to do and there may be better ways to get that same functionality. e.g. if it's for rapidly switching to VoIP 3rd party apps, there are apps that work in full-screen overlay mode we can ensure we work with?

I understand the mode jumping issues that come with screen resizing, and that minimizing changes within the video card driver setup is a strong developer goal (it's a black box from your perspective, so you need to keep interaction with it very strictly controlled), however I think all this boils down to what people expect from the game experience.

Right now, the game only has two play modes and a mechlab. The other experiences either aren't present or are minimal (social). In order for players to gather up friends, experiment with mech builds, experience the battletech universe and otherwise fully enjoy themselves, they rely on third party products to fill the gap. Until in game features are as compelling as the out of game experience, the back and forth jump will always be present.

If people can alt-enter, and if it is reliable, then for those of us with dual screens, we might find that works well enough. Not everyone falls into this category, however, and it becomes another trade off against the number of people who use it vs the cost to support it.

Please consider other options here. You might consider splitting the main game engine away from the launcher. This solves a few problems (memory leaks, for instance) and lets your rapidly iterate one without co-dependence on the other. It does mean you lose some things (fancy mech models in the mechlab probably wouldn't be as easily accomplished), but I don't think people would mind much, honestly. The current and UI 2.0 mechlabs aren't actually very good for building mechs, I'm afraid.

I don't use overlays (second monitor handles that) so others can speak to applications they use. I know mumble supports it and is in common use, and I can guess teamspeak is the same.

Edited by EoRaptor, 04 November 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[Capfailboat]

I'm glad to hear you all are working on the "Cursor Bug". It is probably the most annoying bug out there. As to what I like about the windowed mech to FS during gameplay. As you are aware in an MMO the gameplay gets them in and the community keeps them there (mostly). My corp. (228th IBR) likes to share funny links with each other or make adjustments to our drop deck between games on a google doc, so we use TS and a browser to coordinate these. The TS overlay stinks horribly BTW and I think it actually may contribute to more cursor bugs. If you could find a way to integrate coms or an overlay for any coms program this would alleviate the need to alt+tab as much. Additionally an in game browser based off of an open source browser would further reduce the need. Basically we pull in all these other tools to help organize our game play.

Basically some critical features are needed to reduce need for a windowed game mode. I'm sure some will be salved by "UI2.0 our lord an savior."

1. Coms integration or in-game support for TS/Mumble etc.
2. In game browser to support community interaction over coms
3. Drop Commander pre-drop composition worksheets share-able to friends
4. In-Game smurfy integration or a really good copy of it. (also make is so you can build the actual mech and make your purchases by exporting the link to your mech bay)


Also, SLI support in DX11 would be fantastic. My other GPU needs some love every once in a while.

[ongto]

-this is still a beta, they call it 1.xxx, but come on. feels like the crew is working more on flooding us with sellable stuff than on gameplay devolopment...tons of cash stuff and huge advertising even in real beta left a bad taste in my mouth. i buy garage slots and some prem time, but if they want me to buy other stuff they have to deliever a more complete game first.

-europe server and others, fast. not many people will pay for a game with a ancient connection. dont need dx11, gamers need ping first.

-ui2.0...very late, the current ui is beta and not worthy of a 2013 game release. pls stop writing about it, just do it.

...

-heat penality, gauss mechanics etc...its great, its a intelligent way to get rid of those alpha-monsters and improved my gaming pleasure a lot. when they find some time between designing their cash mechs, they can have good ideas. balancing never stops in a evolving online game, so people should keep calm.

-never never never make playerstats visible ingame. world of tanks made that possible, low rated players get flamed from start on, high players are primary targets. some people dont even shoot destructable objects when enemy is hiding behind, cause their hit-ratio may drop.

-matchmaking system is right and needed, dont understand the critics on that. its impossible to perfectly balance a team, im glad they try to even it out a bit.


...there is progress, but its slow. they should really focus more on completing the game, than on bringing more cockpit items and cash mechs. first do the job then earn the money.

[Vimeous]

FuzzyLog1c, on 04 November 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Chalk up another batch of people (along with Bryan, apparently) that fail at basic reading comprehension. If you cut the heat cap to 1/3 its present value, but crank SHS and DHS dissipation to MW2/4 levels, you won't be able to fire more than two PPCs or LL in succession without shutting down or blowing up. This prioritizes heat management, judicious aim, and terrain usage to buy time to bleed off waste heat. And it's the way that Mechwarrior worked (and worked well, I might add) in the past.

Boggles the mind how people can read one thing and come out with something totally different.

Ok I've re-read your post and now understand what you're angling at.
Thinking it through you'd increase the impact of movement heat and players would be forced into more detailed fire control. Neither are implicitly bad but in general terms it will reduce shots fired and extend battles.
Of course if the game got too slow weapon heat values would be dropped and you'd be right back where you started. It also increases the learning curve for beginners which we keep getting told is already too steep.
My argument is to leave ghost-heat for now as it largely does its job for all the criteria you mention however inelegant or illogical it may be perceived. Other features such as UI2.0, CW and in this case DX11 have not got that far. Not to mention the general clamour regarding hit-boxes which is arguably in need of more attention than ghost-heat.

I agree regarding the removal of the Gauss mechanic but I wonder if that's just because I've not got the patience to use it. Gauss-boats are still out there so someone's coping without issue and yet they are comparatively rare so has the mechanic in-fact had the desired effect?
Maybe a better solution is to retain the charge (it is a mag rifle so this makes some sense) but rather than it suddenly dissipating if you don't fire - it instead builds heat as the heat-sinks struggle to contain the stored charge until you release it or you cook.
Of course ultimately this means you could be firing at fresh air to avoid overheat unless a different shot cancel mechanic can be found.
Edit: Maybe extend the charge time held but if you hit the threshold the gun alone overheats and becomes briefly inoperable like a jammed UAC5.

Regarding graphics. The DX11 changes should be a great step forward. DX11 cards have been the defacto standard for at least 2 generations making dev time spent here more valuable to more players than SLI/Crossfire. Hopefully it's as easy as you suggest a small tweak will sort it once DX11 is complete.

Recent changes may not have been headline grabbing but 12-1 wipes are now the exception which is fantastic. Properly intense matches are no longer the sole preserve of pre-mades and 4-mans don't always triumph over solo foes.
The game is improving all the time and long may it continue.

Edited by Vimeous, 04 November 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[dangerzone]

Is this the replacement for the CDUs the devs were talking about? If so, I do like the new design, but would be nice if it had a released-content roadmap for august like the October CDU does.

If this is a BONUS to the soon-to-be-posted CDU for Nov...then PGI....I love you.

[dangerzone]

Oh and for those who think ghost heat is super lame and should be removed, may I link you to evidence numero uno as to why ghost heat needs to be implemented or at least altered to not crumple LL or something instead of just outright removing it.
http://www.twitch.tv/ngngtv/c/3120421

That build would become outright deadly. In fact, I can almost guarantee everyone would run it...well not everyone, but you'd have a LOT of people raging on the forums claiming to nerf PPCs AGAIN or something. Ghost Heat does fix a lot of issues whether you want to admit it or not.

[Kojin]

Matthew Craig, on 04 November 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

...perhaps you could explain in more detail what the current flow allows you to do...

The simplest way is to show you how my screen looks between matches. As I said in my previous post, I have IRC, IMs and VoIP running. These are not simply people I'm playing with though, which would be easier to deal with and use an internal chat system. I am sometimes connected to several servers for different reasons including gamers on other games and personal contacts too.

Spoiler

With the current smaller window for Mechlab it allows me to leave these chat windows open so I can see when chat rolls in and can quickly click to the correct window to reply.

An integrated web browser (with tabs) could help as I could use a web based IRC/IM client from in-game and have integration with TeamSpeak and Mumble, then I'd be able to have similar functionality. After that my only alt-tab need would be to change my Winamp playlists ^^

[Windsaw]

I'd like to comment that please do not underestimate the importance of being able to have a windowed UI and fullscreened game.
Removing that option may not be a game breaker but it would get on my nerves.

Two reasons. One is of course Teamspeak. I have to be able to make adjustments between the matches and that means I would have to leave fullscreen. Switching between fullscreens is of course possible but slow.

More important to me, however, is the ability to distract myself while the UI is searching for a game. In that time I usually browse or play other small games. If you enforce full screen UI I recommend that you implement a small game that you can play in the meantime. I suggest Pong or something like that.

Really, the windowed/fullscreen separation is not essential, but it makes life easier for the players.

[Heffay]

Kojin, on 05 November 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

The simplest way is to show you how my screen looks between matches. As I said in my previous post, I have IRC, IMs and VoIP running. These are not simply people I'm playing with though, which would be easier to deal with and use an internal chat system. I am sometimes connected to several servers for different reasons including gamers on other games and personal contacts too.

With the current smaller window for Mechlab it allows me to leave these chat windows open so I can see when chat rolls in and can quickly click to the correct window to reply.

An integrated web browser (with tabs) could help as I could use a web based IRC/IM client from in-game and have integration with TeamSpeak and Mumble, then I'd be able to have similar functionality. After that my only alt-tab need would be to change my Winamp playlists ^^

Just get a 2nd monitor.

[Kojin]

Heffay, on 05 November 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Just get a 2nd monitor.

Aye, that would solve some issues, but even if I could afford a decent one I currently don't have the physical space for one.

[Heffay]

Kojin, on 05 November 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

Aye, that would solve some issues, but even if I could afford a decent one I currently don't have the physical space for one.

You don't need a decent one for a second monitor. And go vertical.

[Kojin]

Heffay, on 05 November 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

You don't need a decent one for a second monitor. And go vertical.

If you can find me a 10inch monitor that clips on to the side of my current one for less than £40, let me know.

[Fuerchtegott]

Give the community an european server.
Plan your next holiday in europe and play your game from here, at nighttimes, against players in america and canada and see how much fun that is! Enjoy!

It's hard to get friends even try out this free 2 play game, when they see tripledigit pings.
This would get you propably more new players, I knew and understand you're afraid of dividing the community, but in the long run the pings will do that job for sure. So better take another road and try an eu server.

When I compare MWO, and it's partly unfair, with Cryteks own Warface, you guys look so incredible bad ... it makes me cry!

I enjoy the core game you created, but there are many flaws, that are nearly unbearable.
Maybe from time to time, you should talk to single players, you think that contribute some usefull thoughts, because a forum isn't a good place for a good talk.

[Frost Lord]

Sand Lantern, on 04 November 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

This only further gives an advantage to groups with coms.

it would be better to have an eject sequence with a percentage chance you wont make it, if you don't you just get the score board if you survive you can talk but spectate should be from where you land alternatively being able to walk around would be cool at about 10-20K with no hill climbing and if you get stepped on you get squished. you could even have an eject button so you garente you can communicate.

[Viges]

We really need new game modes and/or changes to existing ones. It is the HIGHEST priority.

Edited by Viges, 07 November 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Pwnocchio]

Regarding the SRM hit detection problem, I wonder if it's possible that the blast radius of the first missile to impact is taking out the missiles a fraction of a second behind it.

[Antarius]

dangerzone, on 04 November 2013 - 07:22 PM, said:

Oh and for those who think ghost heat is super lame and should be removed, may I link you to evidence numero uno as to why ghost heat needs to be implemented or at least altered to not crumple LL or something instead of just outright removing it.
http://www.twitch.tv/ngngtv/c/3120421

That build would become outright deadly. In fact, I can almost guarantee everyone would run it...well not everyone, but you'd have a LOT of people raging on the forums claiming to nerf PPCs AGAIN or something. Ghost Heat does fix a lot of issues whether you want to admit it or not.

...
the most arguments lead against ghost-heat say "change heat-cap + dissipation" (heat cap lower, dissipation higher) and not ghost-heat does nothing sensefull.

it does nearly the same as heat-cap / dissipation, but with some abitary jumps, which give new players a hard time. (especialy without any mentioning ingame about it... i know ui2.0....)

for example:

FuzzyLog1c, on 04 November 2013 - 04:48 AM, said:

Chalk up another batch of people (along with Bryan, apparently) that fail at basic reading comprehension. If you cut the heat cap to 1/3 its present value, but crank SHS and DHS dissipation to MW2/4 levels, you won't be able to fire more than two PPCs or LL in succession without shutting down or blowing up. This prioritizes heat management, judicious aim, and terrain usage to buy time to bleed off waste heat. And it's the way that Mechwarrior worked (and worked well, I might add) in the past.

Boggles the mind how people can read one thing and come out with something totally different.

[focuspark]

Quote

Matchmaking

We know some high Elo players have been finding longer wait times to get into match, we’ve been monitoring the telemetry and there is no easy balance here if we loosen the values more to allow these players lower wait times they will start to match more readily with lower Elo players resuming the state we had before where new players would face more punishing competition than desired.

Ultimately we agree that the current status is not ideal and we are working towards addressing all these short comings for the new Pre Game screen that will be introduced shortly after UI 2.0 this will introduce tonnage limits and is being designed to handle faction play etc.

It will represent a significant shift in the way matches are made compared to the current system and as mentioned will incorporate all our learning’s so far, into what we hope will be a much more rewarding and balanced way to find a game.

Solution is straightforward. If you don' t have 24 people at an ELO level attempt to assemble 16 in 8 vs 8, or 8 in 4 vs 4 matches.

Edited by focuspark, 08 November 2013 - 10:17 AM.

[Sand Lantern]

Pwnocchio, on 07 November 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

Regarding the SRM hit detection problem, I wonder if it's possible that the blast radius of the first missile to impact is taking out the missiles a fraction of a second behind it.

That is an interesting question. Missiles have health, no?