158 replies to this topic

[Davers]

MischiefSC, on 02 November 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Plenty of people in organized teams have multiple accounts depending on what sort of mechs they're running. Also, end of the day, dropping with 4 people who are only passably skilled without voice coms is still going to give you an edge. I should know, I never use coms but do just fine dropping in group. Like everyone else I tend to win more when I group - I just get fewer drops in and don't get to spend the time I like fiddling with builds in between.

Result?

If I try to play something like a 1G battlemaster that is gimped out of the gate (no JJs, at best mediocre hardpoints. Only benefit is big arms and... 60 degree torso turning? Almost no elevation/declination? Why? What possible, reasonable logic is there to that? It would be like if they gave the Awesome an engine cap of 300.

I see what you did there.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Luke Garrad, on 02 November 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

I also only play assult really. Is there more chance to win in conquest?

The Assault only queue is packed with new players and generally low ELO people who can't take any initiative and just wanna go in a big blob all the time. Try Conquest only for a while, make sure you got a decent build that can go 60kph and team up with some assault and just go from cap to cap.

Fights on conquest are alot more varied and since there is no risk for back capping you see alot more tactical stuff like ambusing and so on.

Edit: I cannot stress this enough, Assault only is the newbie bracket. It's packed with awful 'mech builds and just bad players plain and simple.

I have a win/loss of about 1.25 on both assault and conquest and I drop both in 2-4 mans and solo about 50/50. Even if I drop in a 4 man on assault I tend to see awful teammates outside of our premade lance which can sometimes cost us the game. I don't loose anymore solo compared to in 4 mans really, a poorly synced 4 man with 2 locusts and 2 random mediums won't do **** if the other team has 2-300 tons on you.

Edited by MisterPlanetarian, 03 November 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

Luke Garrad, on 03 November 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

But when it comes to crazy loss streaks everynight then something is wrong.

I don't think you understand the most basic concepts surrounding competitive gameplay.

This game
(and for that matter any openly played PUG PVP internet game from WoW to Darkfall and everything in between)
by its very nature does not have a junior league.

Like many people playing these games you have your terminology confused.

Losing = Learning
Winning = Grinding

[Percimes]

Captain Stiffy, on 03 November 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

[/size]
Like many people playing these games you have your terminology confused.

Losing = Learning
Winning = Grinding

I've learned a lot today!

[Luke Garrad]

Captain Stiffy, on 03 November 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

[/size]

I don't think you understand the most basic concepts surrounding competitive gameplay.

This game
(and for that matter any openly played PUG PVP internet game from WoW to Darkfall and everything in between)
by its very nature does not have a junior league.

Like many people playing these games you have your terminology confused.

Losing = Learning
Winning = Grinding

Losing = Learning how bad the matchmaker is in this game. (Thats when it becomes crazy streaks)
Look at other topics people have created. Everyone getting stomped by premades and the tonnage each game is way off at times. Balance tonnage and put premades against Premades.

Edited by Luke Garrad, 03 November 2013 - 09:57 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

I do get it. No matter how good you are being on a team of bads is almost insurmountable.

There was a thread requesting that they open 8v8 back up but it's a double-edged sword; in 8v8 you very well can be good enough to win the game pretty much by yourself on a bad team - but at the same time one really good player playing below his rating will constantly trounce 8v8 teams.

So where's the line? You can't have it both ways.

I also want to point out how easy it is for people of a higher skill level to bomb their ratings intentionally and play anywhere they want to on the scale.

[Captain Stiffy]

Luke Garrad, on 03 November 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Balance tonnage and put premades against Premades.

I agree 100% with this portion.

For the thread however I still think refusing to mix bads with pros keeps the bads bad. It hurts the playerbase tremendously when players are not regularly challenged.

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 03 November 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

And another post... it's almost as if this this boils down to two types of players that after getting insanely trounced think one of two things;

"That player beat me and that is unfair because he is better than me and I should have an easier opponent"
or
"How was that player able to do what he did to beat me because I want to be able to do that"

I think that everyone falls into either category some of the time but most people are definitely usually one or the other.

(and of course there are those who blame the game but that's not this thread)

[Ghogiel]

Captain Stiffy, on 03 November 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

I also want to point out how easy it is for people of a higher skill level to bomb their ratings intentionally and play anywhere they want to on the scale.

I have poked at Elo rating calculators. And from what I feel in the game this feels right, but I think you need to bomb hundreds and hundreds of games to make a sizable dent

Some of the calculators showed you need to have bombed 1000s games at least to go from a high elo to a mid ranged one XD.

So perhaps not so easy.

And would explain why players who have played a couple thousand matches in a weight class, but only have a 55-60% W/L are still in the mixed bag Elo range.

perhaps the issue is that Elo ratings are being adjusted too slowly for casuals an they spend too long in Elo hell. .

[Captain Stiffy]

Ghogiel, on 03 November 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

I have poked at Elo rating calculators. And from what I feel in the game this feels right, but I think you need to bomb hundreds and hundreds of games to make a sizable dent

Some of the calculators showed you need to have bombed 1000s games at least to go from a high elo to a mid ranged one XD.

So perhaps not so easy.

And would explain why players who have played a couple thousand matches in a weight class, but only have a 55-60% W/L are still in the mixed bag Elo range.

perhaps the issue is that Elo ratings are being adjusted too slowly for casuals an they spend too long in Elo hell. .

Well without giving away knowledge that would more easily allow even more people to be abusive {Richard Cameron}, it depends who you lose against and how many people are doing it together and how many people are willing to help them. You seem to have made a good case that it is not easily done alone but it is rarely done so.
It's also possible to just make a new account.
It's also possible to just go one-for-two on stomp/bomb and you'll never have any rating.

[Ghogiel]

Captain Stiffy, on 03 November 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

It's also possible to just make a new account.
It's also possible to just go one-for-two on stomp/bomb and you'll never have any rating.

Everyone should smurf a new account . It's the best way to see how far from the underhive one has climbed. Also for lulz.

But the second part about not having any rating... Elo doesn't work like that. Everyone starts at a 1300 and is adjusted from there depending on W/L. So even if they did that it could take weeks to get to under a 1000.

[xhrit]

Luke Garrad, on 02 November 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

I lose nearly 75% of my games.

I hate to say it, but not everyone can be good at stuff they enjoy doing. No matter how good the matchmaker is, the worst player in MWO is never going to have good stats. If you are the worst player in MWO, there is nothing the matchmaker can do to match you with players of your skill level. Literally everyone who plays is better then you.

No one wants to think they are the worst player in the game, but statistically speaking, someone has to be the worst. If people are ranked, then there are people who will be ranked first, and people who will be ranked last, and there is nothing anyone can do to change it.

Edited by xhrit, 03 November 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Roughneck45]

If you are losing over and over, there are only 2 things you can do.

Get in a group, or get in a meta assault mech and carry harder.

Sure, MM can screw you over sometimes, but it is entirely out of your control. All you can do is change the variables that are under your control, and those are the two.

[MrMadguy]

I want to ask you a question. Many players here are saying, that problem is in ELO trying to keep your winrate at nearly 1. The question is - is it fair? Because lose is not only lowering of your statistics - it's waste of time, cuz I'm also losing CBs and XP. It really looks like game is trying to unnaturally slow down your progression. It tries to offer equal progression for everybody? Sorry, but I've never seen PVP games, that lacks competition, cuz it is unnaturally removed from game. "The system decided, that you have to lose next 6 matches" - it just sounds weird. There may be another reason: ELO may be just broken. If we'll take into account how hit detection and even launch timer(it doesn't drop to 20 sec, when it should, almost in every match, but the most fun moment was, when it stuck with only one player not ready and resetted to 20...guess when?..yea, after it was already almost at 0) are broken - then it's really possible.

Edited by MrMadguy, 03 November 2013 - 11:33 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

MrMadguy, on 03 November 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

I want to ask you a question. Many players here are saying, that problem is in ELO trying to keep your winrate at nearly 1.

I want to give you an answer: Online games are Communist (which is not the same as socialist) and are not Capitalists.

For someone to win more than 50% of the time someone has to lose more than 50% of the time. It's not snatch-all-you-can in MWO, it's give-and-take.

[Lightfoot]

I go about 50-50, but the wins and losses are mostly dependent on which team stays in formation where only Light mechs do scouting and everyone else supports each other as a group. This team wins mostly.

And the team where the main group splits into two or three groups and wanders around until they bump into the opposing main group and fold-up like tin foil. This team always loses and you can't help them except to say "Form up" and hope they listen.

It's not really ELO doing this unless you are just starting out and not many know what to do. New players always think they can go to their favorite spot and do their own thing, but you only succeed if that is covering your team.

[Joseph Mallan]

Luke Garrad, on 02 November 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

I play Mechwarrior for about an hour or two a day and everyday I lose nearly 75% of my games. I get up to 6 losses in a row then 1 win if I'm lucky and the cycle happens again (Not 75% its just an example). I would say I'm an average skill player who gets at least or kill or two a game or high damage so I kind of feel its not my fault. Everygame there is one afk player or some guy who disconnects or a spider which dies within the first 10 seconds. I'm worried due to how {Scrap} the elo system, why base a player of wins/losses in a team game? It should be based on how the player plays their role such as a light mech providing targets for the team but this idea is of it being based off Wins/losses is awful. Elo was suppose to be used in games like chess where its 1 v 1 that is when you calculate someone skill through Wins/Losses but the idea of doing in a team game is rubbish. I've spent quite a bit of money on this game and I don't want to be stuck with bad players and afk farmers due to the elo bracket and have to make a smurf account. All I want is a 50/50 win rate at least but if this keeps happening then I'm going to get no where.

Questions:
Are you PUGging?

Are you getting kills and/or assists in most games?

As a PUG I don't concern myself with things beyond my personal control. So whether the team wins or not isn't my worry, but if I participated and provided kills and or assists, I id my job. I can lose every game but if I have 600+ damage 4 kills and an assist or two, I rocked!

Its in the perspective you take whether you have fun or not.

[Elfman]

Seems I am doomed to play in a time zone with no enough players for Elo to correctly get me a team with all players at a similar skill level.

Solo dropping in medium mechs last night got me 1 win (first game) then 7 loss with in the games we lost I managed to get the only kills and the max damage on our team and was the last mech alive.

Every match last night (after the first) the entire team other than maybe 1 or 2 each match scored under 90 damage and where dead within the first 2 mins of the game starting

I normally play more than 8 games in an evening but after 6 games in a row with either completly new players in trial mechs on my team or peeps having a real bad day I gave up in despair.

After the last couple of weeks where Elo spends way to long trying to get me a match and when the match starts the Elo range is obviously huge but with no attempt at any form of weight balancing I actually feel like not bothering to play as whats the point...

Edited by Elfman, 06 November 2013 - 06:09 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Elfman, on 06 November 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Seems I am doomed to play in a time zone with no enough players for Elo to correctly get me a team with all players at a similar skill level.

Solo dropping in medium mechs last night got me 1 win (first game) then 7 loss with in the games we lost I managed to get the only kills and the max damage on our team and was the last mech alive.

Every match last night (after the first) the entire team other than maybe 1 or 2 each match scored under 90 damage and where dead within the first 2 mins of the game starting

I normally play more than 8 games in an evening but after 6 games in a row with either completly new players in trial mechs on my team or peeps having a real bad day I gave up in despair.

After the last couple of weeks where Elo spends way to long trying to get me a match and when the match starts the Elo range is obviously huge but with no attempt at any form of weight balancing I actually feel like not bothering to play as whats the point...

So you had good games but your team was not effective. that is the way PUG goes.

[Elfman]

Yep Joe but would prefer if we went back to the weigth matching and had Elo as a secondary thing rather than the Elo and damn the weight matching