323 replies to this topic

[GalaxyBluestar]

paul; note to self, when changing fundermentles such as controls, leave in patch notes in known issues section about such plans in the patch PREVIOUS to the patch it will be launched on so people aren't caught unawear and feel like a knife suddenly landed in their back for no reason.

more tips and tricks on learning to communicate. soontm

[Valten]

Thanks for the response. I'm curious though, given that we used to have the fire current weapon group (FCWG) option, and given that we used to be able to bind a button to fire group 1, and given that the left mouse button has always been able to be remapped: why does it now sound like your software engineers are struggling to re-implement the FCWG option? Why was this ever removed from the options to begin with? I totally understand changing the default but in no world does this require removing the previous default as a selectable option.

<------- I think I've spent enough on this game to have my expectations respected, unlike the new player who can't be bothered to look at his keymap before crying.

Oh, and before anyone flames me Yes, I do have done computer programming. I may not make my living at it but neither am I a stranger to the "mysterious" world of coding.

Edited by Valten, 06 November 2013 - 02:24 PM.

[Roadbeer]

GalaxyBluestar, on 06 November 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

paul; note to self, when changing fundermentles such as controls, leave in patch notes in known issues section about such plans in the patch PREVIOUS to the patch it will be launched on so people aren't caught unawear and feel like a knife suddenly landed in their back for no reason.

more tips and tricks on learning to communicate. soontm

Or even better,

"Hey, so um, does anyone use this? We're thinking of changing the way this works and don't want to impact anyone too severely."

[Sir Roland MXIII]

GalaxyBluestar, on 06 November 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

paul; note to self, when changing fundermentles such as controls, leave in patch notes in known issues section about such plans in the patch PREVIOUS to the patch it will be launched on so people aren't caught unawear and feel like a knife suddenly landed in their back for no reason.

more tips and tricks on learning to communicate. soontm

Keep in mind that the devs don't know until almost the day of a patch what it will contain. And by "the devs" I mean just PGI, because this isn't difficult to do for devs past their first game.

Roadbeer, on 06 November 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Or even better,

"Hey, so um, does anyone use this? We're thinking of changing the way this works and don't want to impact anyone too severely."

Or to take an idea from my time in retail, do a 3x3 graph, of people who use the product, money per month they add, and gross money they've paid in, VS best case scenario no customers / no money per month are lost if the product is unavailable, average case scenario one to three quarters of these customers are lost and so is the money per month, with worst case scenario being all lost.

They can dump all three of those or at least the first two from the database, and SHOULD HAVE before executing the Fire Selected option like it was Old Yeller. But of course, that's logical, and therefore anathema to PGI...

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 06 November 2013 - 02:34 PM.

[Firewuff]

I understand it not being the default as it can be confusing for new players but can we please have it back as a bindable option as I found it a very quick and easy way to switch several different weapon grouping quickly.

Also @c91 .. chill dude, this is a small thing and not a "I'll never play again" issues.

[Roadbeer]

Firewuff, on 06 November 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

I understand it not being the default as it can be confusing for new players but can we please have it back as a bindable option as I found it a very quick and easy way to switch several different weapon grouping quickly.

Also @c91 .. chill dude, this is a small thing and not a "I'll never play again" issues.

Ummm, no.. it's actually a big deal that makes the game completely unplayable for a significant number of people.

[Deathlike]

Nation Uprise, on 06 November 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

I don't understand. How was it working incorrectly before? It was as simple and straight forward as anything could be. You want to shoot the currently selected weapon group, you press that button. You want to shoot every other weapon group without selecting a specific one, you press the appropriate button. So whats wrong here? Based on the explanation for removal, I would think renaming the fuction or moving the fuction would be an easier thing to do instead of removing and rebuilding code that seems to have worked from the beginning.

I thought about this, and this in part has to do with the lack of tutorials. You may have come across said complaints before.

It is not obvious to a newbie what the "selected group happens to be". By default, when you launch into a match, group 1 is where all the weapons are fired from.

When you add/remove weapons, they tend to automatically get mapped to group 1 when you get into a match.

The other problem in the current UI (1.5) as 2.0 addresses this is the lack of mapping weapon groups in the UI. This is a longstanding issue that was a major complaint.. as many older MW games has had this (at least since MW3).

The problem with weapon mapping as currently constituted is not newbie friendly... in fact whenever "remapping" occurs in future patches or when you "completely uninstall the game", the weapon group mappings are not stored on the server... they are all local. So you end up having to remap every mech in your mechlab by dropping into a game.

The primary issue is that there's a disconnect and somewhat of an assumption that "mouse 1" (left click for right handed mouse profiles, right click for left handed I think) is to fire group 1. Once you "alter" the highlighted default group of group 1, the meaning of the "fire selected group changes" to the new group... assuming there is something within group 2 or group 6.

A far more simple solution would have been to change the default profile for newbies that firing group 1 weapons is the mouse 1 button.

Nobody would've gotten hurt/burned, outside of the odd whining for the change, and would still a legitimate new player experience change. The problem first and foremost about this change... you didn't think about its implications and did it anyways. That is not how you continue to gain support from the playerbase. It doesn't work like that.

The explanation provided by Paul is simply terrible and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that it is something people use (even if I don't use it, I'm sure someone else would).

Edited by Deathlike, 06 November 2013 - 02:52 PM.

[Woska]

I want that option back too.

And this seems to be the first time there has been almost unanimous agreement on a change, so it's pretty obvious that the players want this back.

[Chrysato Bahrudin]

Snitchkilla, on 06 November 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

i thought this too then i found my post filed under "other comments"on the right side of the page " they only leave the pinnied "official' posts in the normal feed

mine isnt there they hid it from their page it only shows up when i access from my facebook

[Weird Beard]

Right. Well I'm glad it is coming back. I can only ask that you guys in PGI consult more with your player base before making changes. This might seem cumbersome to a development team but honestly, it will net you larger rewards.

There was a quote a few posts back about you being proud to have kept (at least) 50% of the founders or some such.... Honestly this statistic would worry me a lot from both the business AND player side given how new the game is still. What will it be like by next year? Are you trying to tell us that you are only in this for the quick buck and don't really care about making a really cool game that will last for years to come? Was my founders investment a bad one? These questions force me to rethink any decision to spend money here.

I will offer a little bit of advice: Ignore the analytics. They are wrong and don't reflect where the real money is. Again I will iterate that you could learn a lot from what Chris Roberts is doing. The market is NOT what the statistics are telling you it is which, if you are really paying attention to history's success stories, is blatantly obvious.

I will wait for the fix.

Edited by Weird Beard, 06 November 2013 - 03:15 PM.

[GainMediumVsThermodynamics]

The keybindings were already complicated enough, they did not need to do this. I'm assuming they wanted to make it more like a simulator. Well this is a pretty quarter assed way of doing that. More importantly than why? is why now?

[Firewuff]

Roadbeer, on 06 November 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Ummm, no.. it's actually a big deal that makes the game completely unplayable for a significant number of people.

<editied as I was commeting on the wrong thread>

Its not "completely unplayable" ... its annoying I occasionally use the selected we group but there are ways around

I generally map my buttons as follows

mouse1 - > group 1 Right arm weps or balistics
mouse 2 -> group 2 left arm weps or lasers
Left shift -> group 3 MG or SRM
space -> Group 4 LRM
mouse 5 -> group 5 Tag

I move JJ to caps lock (so if you see me in game with all caps thats why)

Edited by Firewuff, 06 November 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[Chrysato Bahrudin]

Paul Inouye, on 06 November 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

1) No.

2)

3) We are adding the ability to bind MB1 to "fire selected weapon group" but it's requiring a bit of trickery on the control binding end of things. We have engineering working on it right now and as soon as that is fixed, the bind will be available to you all again. Sorry for the inconvenience but this was something we did after watching new players have a problem with the current implementation.

New players? Here's an idea how about a tutorial video? hell even a tutorial page with pictures. Also the "new players" aren't the ones dropping over a hundred dollars into this game not including my founders package maybe you should think about the people who are paying money. Also im expecting a reimburse on the day of premium time i lost today please and thank you

[Roadbeer]

Firewuff, on 06 November 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

<editied as I was commeting on the wrong thread>

Its not "completely unplayable" ... its annoying I occasionally use the selected we group but there are ways around

I generally map my buttons as follows

mouse1 - > group 1 Right arm weps or balistics
mouse 2 -> group 2 left arm weps or lasers
Left shift -> group 3 MG or SRM
space -> Group 4 LRM
mouse 5 -> group 5 Tag

I move JJ to caps lock (so if you see me in game with all caps thats why)

Not everyone uses a mouse/keyboard. Some because of personal preference, some because of physical limitations. So, yes, it does make the game UNPLAYABLE, not just inconvenient.

Chrysato Bahrudin, on 06 November 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Also im expecting a reimburse on the day of premium time i lost today please and thank you

You're assuming it's only going to be a day... my money is on a bit longer.

[HUBA]

edit
ok I was to quick. It will be changed again

/edit

Give Me Back My Fire Current Selected Option

I'm a bit upset, frankly PGI there are bugs to fix and many requested features to implement, why did you spent time and remove useful features? If you are bored and didn't know what to do in the next hour ask me (or anyone else) I have many suggestion. Support the mouse wheel properly, make a zoom out option. maybe make the last team member not indivisible on the map when he is out of LOS...

Edited by HUBA, 06 November 2013 - 04:28 PM.

[Celtic Warrior]

I use a joystick, I can't shoot anything unless its set to 1 config. So basically this has eliminated my ability so play the game, alpha strike = over heat! If this is not brought back then I should get a refund on the mech packs I purchased since I can't play the game anymore.

[Kunae]

Weird Beard, on 06 November 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Right. Well I'm glad it is coming back. I can only ask that you guys in PGI consult more with your player base before making changes.

Why would they? They've never done so before.

They have egos that tell them they are "professional game designers", when all they've done before are some crappy console games. They do not listen to the players unless a huge, and I mean HUGE, stink is made, on the forums and every other contact method.

Edited by Kunae, 06 November 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[NuclearPanda]

Kunae, on 06 November 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Why would they? They've never done so before.

They have egos that tell them they are "professional game designers", when all they've done before are some crappy console games. They do not listen to the players unless a huge, and I mean HUGE, stink is made, on the forums and every other contact method.

I'd say they listen to players.... this is why there is a patch feedback thread IMO. Just my two cents. They don't always make the right decisions though

[Kunae]

NuclearPanda, on 06 November 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

I'd say they listen to players.... this is why there is a patch feedback thread IMO. Just my two cents. They don't always make the right decisions though

No, there is a patch feedback thread so they can find out which things are broken, so they can fix them 6 mos from now with a complicated new system which breaks 5 other things. It's also here so they can dupe people into thinking they listen. It's a facade.

They have changed nothing major, nor NOT put something in that they were planning, because of "listening to the players". Examples:

ECM.
DHS.
3PV.
Going OB.
Going Launch.
Ghost Heat.
Coolant pods.

To name a few.

Edited by Kunae, 06 November 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[NuclearPanda]

Kunae, on 06 November 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

No, there is a patch feedback thread so they can find out which things are broken, so they can fix them 6 mos from now with a complicated new system which breaks 5 other things. It's also here so they can dupe people into thinking they listen. It's a facade.

They have changed nothing major, nor NOT put something in that they were planning, because of "listening to the players". Examples:

ECM.
DHS.
3PV.
Going OB.
Going Launch.
Ghost Heat.
Coolant pods.

To name a few.

Life is a facade good sir.... and so is the term "free to play". I'm just rolling with the punches honestly and attemping to enjoy what I can while giving feedback where I'm apparently "supposed" to. *shrugs*

I know what you mean though