124 replies to this topic

[Xanquil]

Boating was/is not an issue, it is the way alpha strikes work with boated weapons that is the problem. Seriously you can still carry 4 PPCs you just can't fire them all at the same time. The reason for that is that they all hit the same place in MW:O, something the hit location system was never designed to take.

[Wispsy]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

It's not so easy to one shot a light here.

It is easy.

[Blacksoul1987]

Tombstoner, on 08 November 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

yea much less, what happens is the energy density drops so it looses its damage potential. lasers should flat out have much longer ranges with pin point accuracy then any auto cannon system. ballistic weapons should suffer from some form of COF but lasers should not and only have damage drop off.

If only the devs would stop and try to add some realism to the weapons systems and stop copying the old games and make this something special "good special" not short bus special.

at the ranges we fight at in mwo ballistics would not be inaccurate at all. if we fought at 6000meters as opposed to 600 meters then yeah ballistics would be pretty inaccurate. but realistically any large caliber rifle is going to be pretty much pin point accurate when you only fire it up to a kilometer. so realism doesn't really support your argument there I'll accept a cone of fire mechanic if you let me fire the gauss rifle with effective damage out to 100 miles like it would be realistically.

[GroovYChickeN]

I didn't vote because there wasn't a proper choice.

Boats are fine as long as they are the conically correct boats. A 4/6 ppc stalker goes against the purpose of the mech. The stalker was a mech that was feared because it has weapons for all ranges. Not because people made it a boat.

I have nothing against a Awesome being a boat because well it's supposed to be. Its supposed to be big and hot and hit like a truck from really far away. Its also an easy target.

I've said it before and I'll say it again boats and ghost heat are both fine and both can exist in this game as long as they are approached on a PER MECH basis. Devs should be using the quirks system to make the boats be exceptions to the host heat rules and give them a place on the battlefield that has been dominated by other mech simply doing their job better because of the nonrestrictive hard point system.

[Tombstoner]

Blacksoul1987, on 08 November 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

at the ranges we fight at in mwo ballistics would not be inaccurate at all. if we fought at 6000meters as opposed to 600 meters then yeah ballistics would be pretty inaccurate. but realistically any large caliber rifle is going to be pretty much pin point accurate when you only fire it up to a kilometer. so realism doesn't really support your argument there I'll accept a cone of fire mechanic if you let me fire the gauss rifle with effective damage out to 100 miles like it would be realistically.

Ranges are abstractions to fit on the kitchen table. no way a mg is limied to 3 hexes or 90 meters, so you cant extrapolate real word functionality into mwo on a one to one basis. accuracy needs to be intra weapon dependent. so lasers should be pin point and ballistics have a very small cof. then re-balance, best of both worlds like real life but the lead designer insists on magically accurate weapons. for some reason ballistics are longer ranged then lasers and do more damage go figure/ wish i knew what theses designers where thinking. this is a great opportunity to make BT 2.0 and kick eves but.

[Joseph Mallan]

What scares me is the apparent lack of military knowledge that the DEVs seem to have. It is equal to an Abrams shutting down in the middle of combat cause it fires its main gun and Machine Gun! They just do not have the right concept of what an Army needs/ would field.

[Sporklift]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

I think I saw the video of that!

I actually appeared in someone's game video?

[Bacl]

Boating never been a problem in the first place, now i see jagers packing 3 AC5, is boating starting at 4?.

There is nothing wrong having 4 PPC on a mech but back in the days when it was happening the PPC base heat was too low and people were abbusing. Ghost heat didnt nerf the boats, it just mostly affected energy builds and because of that we had the twin PPC with gauss combo. 6 Large lasers Stalker? It is a really hot build but it could rival the dakka mechs we have today, now with the ghost heat running 4 large lasers is hard and chaining them dont really get any points since they spread all over.

Today packing 2 ERPPC's on a single mech ( Cat -K2 for instance) filled wiith heatsinks will shutdown after 3 or 4 shots, your damage vs heat ratio dont make you an asset to your team but going 2 AC 10 and 4 medium lasers will exceed it in every ways.

If you cant boat lasers, how can you rival ballistics boaters?

[AC]

RolfS, on 05 November 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

I am pretty tired of all anti boaters hence i felt it was time to start a poll to get the boats back.
Stalkers with 4xPPC or 6xLLs aren't that effective if you look at the kill count neither is the ATLAS-RS with 4xPPC. If you run an ATLAS-RS 4xPPC you can get easily humiliated by a single commando that blast you from close range.

The lack of boating makes the battle field duller, not better. Having crazy mech builds in the game makes the game more casual more fun and simply better.

The only crazy mech build I can think of right now is using a Jager with 2xGauss and 2xPPC howver that build ain't fun with the current nerfed Gauss, which i Guess means there aren't any crazy mech build being used right at the moment.

You know this wouldn't even be an issue if PGI would have just implemented slot limitations? They anything can go anywhere mentality is what got us Ghost Heat and Gauss Delay. Not to mention making it hard as heck to balance weapons. (PGI isn't actually balancing weapons, they are trying to balance weapons based on what mechs can boat them.... this is a poor approach that will not end in balance.)

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 08 November 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

It is easy.

Not for average players such as me. Get your facts straight.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

4 PPCs is a boat? Does anyone remember the SIX PPC stalker?

Imo ghost heat needs to be removed. The PPC base heat is so high now, you couldn't run a 4PPC stalker even with ghost heat gone.

[Joseph Mallan]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 11 November 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

4 PPCs is a boat? Does anyone remember the SIX PPC stalker?

Imo ghost heat needs to be removed. The PPC base heat is so high now, you couldn't run a 4PPC stalker even with ghost heat gone.

• 
  

  Quote

  AWS-9Q A basic upgrade introduced in 3057^[6] for the 8Q and 9M Awesome, the heat sinks are upgraded to double heat sinks and are reduced to nineteen. The saved weight is used to add a fourth PPC to the 'Mech as well as a Guardian ECM Suite.

[Sixnations]

bring back the broken SRM hit dmg and detection so I can sneak, flank and solo all u boaters with my hunchy 4SP

Edited by Sixnations, 11 November 2013 - 05:07 PM.

[OuttaAmmo NoWai]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 November 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

I am more than aware tabletop 4PPC mechs exist that are considered boats
I was mentioning the fact that 4PPCs in MWO used to be considered a light loadout compared to six

[MustrumRidcully]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 11 November 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

I am more than aware tabletop 4PPC mechs exist that are considered boats
I was mentioning the fact that 4PPCs in MWO used to be considered a light loadout compared to six

The 6 PPC Stalker has always been more of a joke build - sure, awesome alpha, but after that alpha, you take forever to shoot again - which is bad if the enemy is getting closer and you can't hide, or if the enemy is engaging your allies and killing them while you are hoping to lose some heat. Too impractical and unforgiven.
With 4 PPCs you could equip more DHS and maintain a better firing speed.


Of course, theoretically a Hexa-PPCr could have been heat neutral in the table top, though I am not sure if it would be possible at 85 tons.

[Karl Streiger]

MustrumRidcully, on 12 November 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Of course, theoretically a Hexa-PPCr could have been heat neutral in the table top, though I am not sure if it would be possible at 85 tons.

The next to 60dmg alpha and heat neutrality is the clan Hellstar, or a Warhawk but trading 2 ER-PPCs and heatsinks for 2 GausRifles (of course you have to remove the Targeting Computer)

fast test:
85t clan mech with 4 ER-PPCs and targeting computer -> to cause the same damage as a hexa stalker - delivering 60 damage to a single location. That will cause 8-10 heat points - not really heat neutral (the reason why the Warhawk Prime is so stupid - but its great when replacing the ER-PPCs with ER-Large-Laser (same damage as a Quad PPC Stalker)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 12 November 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[FupDup]

MustrumRidcully, on 12 November 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

Of course, theoretically a Hexa-PPCr could have been heat neutral in the table top, though I am not sure if it would be possible at 85 tons.

You can get something exponentially more effective if you join into the Clan tech powercreep and fast forward to the year 3079:


A 95 tonner that goes at 64 kph (71 in MWO with speed tweak), carries Atlas-level armor (just 0.5 tons off), has longer range due to using ER instead of standard PPCs, and generates exactly zero heat from alpha striking unless standing immobile (or some sinks are critted out). Of course it would run crazy hot in MWO, but with 30 DHS it might actually be semi-tolerable if you don't drop on Mordor or other hot maps.

Edited by FupDup, 12 November 2013 - 05:25 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 11 November 2013 - 05:54 PM, said:

I am more than aware tabletop 4PPC mechs exist that are considered boats
I was mentioning the fact that 4PPCs in MWO used to be considered a light loadout compared to six

It is also a Canon design that folks here built as a make do. As we are limited on the chassis we have, we can and do rebuild what we have to fit what we want.
Jenner=Panther
Orion=Marauder
Cataphract=Warhammer
Hunchback=Blitzkrieg
Hunchback=Apollo
Centurion=Enforcer

And those are just some of the Mediums I have recreated so far.

[Bacl]

FupDup, on 12 November 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

You can get something exponentially more effective if you join into the Clan tech powercreep and fast forward to the year 3079:


A 95 tonner that goes at 64 kph (71 in MWO with speed tweak), carries Atlas-level armor (just 0.5 tons off), has longer range due to using ER instead of standard PPCs, and generates exactly zero heat from alpha striking unless standing immobile (or some sinks are critted out). Of course it would run crazy hot in MWO, but with 30 DHS it might actually be semi-tolerable if you don't drop on Mordor or other hot maps.

The Hellstar hold its name so well, facing one in TT or even in wizkidz mechwwarior clix was a nightmare, but high point value if i recall right tho. Anyhow the game is already in a pretty bad shape, clan tech will just storm everything left. I think they might just go lazy ( dont really have the choice) and make clan mechs like "skins" or the IS mechs we have now but with diferent looks, would be lame but the safest approach to be honest. I wouldnt really mind since we really dont need another balance nitghmare while they cant even balance our current weapons...

What do you guys think?

[Joseph Mallan]

Bacl, on 12 November 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

The Hellstar hold its name so well, facing one in TT or even in wizkidz mechwwarior clix was a nightmare, but high point value if i recall right tho. Anyhow the game is already in a pretty bad shape, clan tech will just storm everything left. I think they might just go lazy ( dont really have the choice) and make clan mechs like "skins" or the IS mechs we have now but with diferent looks, would be lame but the safest approach to be honest. I wouldnt really mind since we really dont need another balance nitghmare while they cant even balance our current weapons...

What do you guys think?

I think I want to know the fear of the Hellstar and Dire Wolf. If a ire Wolf is only going to be a Atlas with a new skin, then this in't the game I came to play.