1726 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 19 April 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

...

Link to that? Because there are significantly more issues here if they cant even figure out their own code O.o

It was said in the recent townhall. ( i did exaggerated in the not being able to figuring out part though )

Zeece, on 16 April 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

Questions:
...
#Clan LBX v UAC ammo swap

* Dead, former programmer code makes it neigh impossible to do in the near future.
...

listen for yourself at around: 2:30:40


I don't get the part when he says "former programmer"... if its a resource and effort issue then what it has to do with former programmer? only logical meaning that can be extracted here is that it will require significant effort and resources BECAUSE the former programmer is not around any more (if not.. then why relate it to a guy that used to work there at PGI?)

Edited by Navid A1, 19 April 2015 - 05:06 PM.

[Ialdabaoth]

Navid A1, on 18 April 2015 - 12:01 AM, said:

However... according to russ, Their former programmer has left PGI and they can no longer figure out the original code (it just hurts when i remember it )... so it may as well be impossible.

... what?

So, is his job available?

/out of work game programmer

[Lindonius]

Navid A1, on 19 April 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

It was said in the recent townhall. ( i did exaggerated in the not being able to figuring out part though )

listen for yourself at around: 2:30:40


I don't get the part when he says "former programmer"... if its a resource and effort issue then what it has to do with former programmer? only logical meaning that can be extracted here is that it will require significant effort and resources BECAUSE the former programmer is not around any more (if not.. then why relate it to a guy that used to work there at PGI?)

He may never have worked at PGI. There have been suggestions by some that the core game wasn't written by PGI at all, and that they bought the core code, perhaps from S&T, or from some other developer. It certainly makes sense when you consider everything that PGI have done to the game since closed beta has been detrimental in effect. Giant swathes of code just removed rather than fixed. And now, by the CEO's own admission, they admit to not understanding their own code in a recorded town hall. Who is this "former programmer"? The programmers who actually built the core game code that they bought? Or some early days programmers at PGI that actually had talent, but jumped ship a la Karl Berg?

[zudukai]

Lindonius, on 19 April 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

He may never have worked at PGI. There have been suggestions by some that the core game wasn't written by PGI at all, and that they bought the core code, perhaps from S&T, or from some other developer. It certainly makes sense when you consider everything that PGI have done to the game since closed beta has been detrimental in effect. Giant swathes of code just removed rather than fixed. And now, by the CEO's own admission, they admit to not understanding their own code in a recorded town hall. Who is this "former programmer"? The programmers who actually built the core game code that they bought? Or some early days programmers at PGI that actually had talent, but jumped ship a la Karl Berg?

if it really is as they claim it to be, then shame on them for not taking better care and keeping up with the code, or better yet shame on them for failing to get code they could actually work to begin with.

Edited by zudukai, 19 April 2015 - 10:39 PM.

[Ialdabaoth]

Keeping clean code when on a tight deadline is surprisingly rare - especially when you've got bad management pushing you all the time.

That said, I apparently do a pretty good job at cleaning up messy codebases and turning them into things that are easy to maintain, if there's interest

[Mad Cow Jenkins]

Lindonius, on 19 April 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

He may never have worked at PGI. There have been suggestions by some that the core game wasn't written by PGI at all, and that they bought the core code, perhaps from S&T, or from some other developer. It certainly makes sense when you consider everything that PGI have done to the game since closed beta has been detrimental in effect. Giant swathes of code just removed rather than fixed. And now, by the CEO's own admission, they admit to not understanding their own code in a recorded town hall. Who is this "former programmer"? The programmers who actually built the core game code that they bought? Or some early days programmers at PGI that actually had talent, but jumped ship a la Karl Berg?

You might be surprised at how many developers run away from some junk they threw into production because management had to much faith in them, shoddy code review, developer optimism (skill/task delusion) or whatever reason. Its always easy to blame management or inside the company blame the developer but a fair share of people stood by and let it happend because maybe they had too....
The worst part is that cleaning up when its in production fairly often takes far longer then creating it in the first place, given that you have to somehow maintain the current system adding tiny features, while migrating data and code on the side untill you can pull the plug.

[Vandul]

How did you get so far down the pages? Up you go.

Also, Today's patch addresses the Champion/Non-Champion version of the A1. Woot

"Catapult CPLT-A1(C) Quirks have been corrected to match its non-Champion Variant."

[Nathan Foxbane]

Ialdabaoth, on 19 April 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

Keeping clean code when on a tight deadline is surprisingly rare - especially when you've got bad management pushing you all the time.

That said, I apparently do a pretty good job at cleaning up messy codebases and turning them into things that are easy to maintain, if there's interest

I do wish people would comment their code more. Makes it hell when one actually has to figure out what they are trying to accomplish in the first place before one can figure out how to clean up the mess.

[XphR]

Nathan Foxbane, on 21 April 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

I do wish people would comment their code more. Makes it hell when one actually has to figure out what they are trying to accomplish in the first place before one can figure out how to clean up the mess.

Some people consider it added job security.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tennex, on 19 April 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

There are so many great ideas in this thread. Saddest thing is that PGI will never see any of them

saddest thing is they dont have coders who understand their own game to do them

Mad Cow Jenkins, on 20 April 2015 - 05:08 AM, said:

You might be surprised at how many developers run away from some junk they threw into production because management had to much faith in them, shoddy code review, developer optimism (skill/task delusion) or whatever reason. Its always easy to blame management or inside the company blame the developer but a fair share of people stood by and let it happend because maybe they had too....
The worst part is that cleaning up when its in production fairly often takes far longer then creating it in the first place, given that you have to somehow maintain the current system adding tiny features, while migrating data and code on the side untill you can pull the plug.

There was this game called Sword of the Stars 2.... The developer launched it describing it as

Quote

Martin describes the current build as containing “a pile of blown apart code and unstable features” and promises that all effort will initially go toward fixing stability. His final word is on refunds and other forms of recompense.

http://www.rockpaper...ev-vows-to-fix/

They spent the next two (I think) years making the game playable. This SHOULDNT be the norm.

[Nathan Foxbane]

XphR, on 21 April 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

Some people consider it added job security.

And if said person gets incapacitated for whatever reason it still screws everyone over. Good way to get fired after they have come back and fix it.

[XphR]

Indeed

[Alex Morgaine]

Ok that was a stupid post, but I do hope you get employment. And that pgi fixes out gets someone qualified to fix the broken features, and fast/soon.

XphR, on 21 April 2015 - 08:49 PM, said:

Indeed

I thought it was standard to document your coding so people could figure out wtf your brand of madness means.

Edited by Frosty Brand, 22 April 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Nathan Foxbane, on 21 April 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

And if said person gets incapacitated for whatever reason it still screws everyone over. Good way to get fired after they have come back and fix it.

Hey look; thats exactly what happened here

[zagibu]

Nathan Foxbane, on 21 April 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

I do wish people would comment their code more. Makes it hell when one actually has to figure out what they are trying to accomplish in the first place before one can figure out how to clean up the mess.

Actually, code has to be structured and written so that code comments are rarely needed. If you need a lot of code comments to explain what you are doing, your code is probably crap. Of course, this is a generalization, and there are complex algorithms that are hard to grok without comments, but for the largest part of the codebase, an excessive amount of comments is actually an indicator that bad programmers are at work.
I know they teach otherwise at schools and university, but this is the reality I have encountered on the job.

[XphR]

Frosty Brand, on 22 April 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Ok that was a stupid post, but I do hope you get employment. And that pgi fixes out gets someone qualified to fix the broken features, and fast/soon.

I thought it was standard to document your coding so people could figure out wtf your brand of madness means.

I am guessing you intended the first part of your post for someone else? As for standards, they are not always followed or met in any field. Not that it makes it right, its just a matter of fact.

[Tennex]

Guys this thread is 1 and 0.5 years old

[Juodas Varnas]

Tennex, on 22 April 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

Guys this thread is 1 and 0.5 years old

And it's still RELEVANT to this day!

[MeiSooHaityu]

It's relevancy won't change until the Catapult geometry changes...for the better.

[Tennex]

Juodas Varnas, on 22 April 2015 - 11:28 AM, said:

And it's still RELEVANT to this day!

i'm not saying its not. I'm just saying its sad how long PGI has allowed to last, and how long they've ignored player feedback for