64 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

basically OP jsut used what they knew would be a current bandwagon and hot topic to promote their ideas on another issue entirely so that they would get more views and start a brand new thread on an old topic

[Lykaon]

Bront, on 06 November 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

ECM's balance is that it only runs on some mechs. I'm not saying that's good balance, but it's balance. In most cases, the ECM mech is inferior to the others in some way (Commando 2D hardpoints aren't that great, Cicada-3M is OK, DDC hardpoints aren't as good as the D, Only the Raven 3L is superior in almost every way), but yes, there only reason to run an ECM mech without ECM is if you can't afford it, and that should be solved in a few matches. It's lightweight, and gives a huge battle advantage.

????

The ECM commando D has long been the go to mech for commando chassis it has 3 missile hardpoints (3 SSRMs)

The Cicada with ECM is arguably the best Cicada variant in addition to ECM.

And the Atlas DDc was probably the most commonly deployed Atlas before ECM. 2 Energy hardpoints 2 Ballistic hardpoints and 3 missile hardpoints.Maybe the RS varient was giving it a rn for it's money but ECM,now it's a no brainer for the DDC.

You are correct on the Raven 3L the other Ravens are second rate to every other light mech.

The simple fact is during closed beta testing (internal Dev testing at that) ECM was found to be to powerful to allow on every chassis.That is why ECM is limited to a handful of chassis.Because if it wasn't every mech would have an ECM.

[Captain Stiffy]

ECM is the ONLY thing standing between us an another LRMpocalypse.

I absolutely guarantee any further nerf to ECM and the LRM boats will be 8/12 on every team.

[Otto Cannon]

Captain Stiffy, on 06 November 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

ECM is the ONLY thing standing between us an another LRMpocalypse.

I absolutely guarantee any further nerf to ECM and the LRM boats will be 8/12 on every team.

*Wipes away tears of laughter* Oh, my sides...

[Mack1]

ECM was developed simply to bridge the gap between players that could use terrain such as hills and buildings to avoid enemy missiles and the morons that run around the map like noobs.

It will never get nerfed.

[Prezimonto]

The primary issue is that ECM extents to cover an entire team with no real consequence or effort.

If the ECM field size was related to the speed of the mech's travel it would have more balance than it currently does.

If at greater than 100kph the field only covered the mech in question
If at around 40kph the field could only cover ~40m (enough for a lance to pack in tightly)
If the mech had to sit still for the field to extend outward to 180, and if the mech moved it caused the field to collapse...

it would be much more balanced that it is. The issue really is a complete lack of lock ability against an entire team.

[Mr Andersson]

Captain Stiffy, on 06 November 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

ECM is the ONLY thing standing between us an another LRMpocalypse.

So nerf LRMs slightly. Problem solved.

[Captain Stiffy]

Mr Andersson, on 06 November 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

So nerf LRMs slightly. Problem solved.

Then LRM's become {Scrap} again. Maybe... just maybe... ECM and the way they work with missiles is in a good place now.

ECM is a part of the game and it's never going away.

Have fun.

[OneEyed Jack]

Prezimonto, on 06 November 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

The primary issue is that ECM extents to cover an entire team with no real consequence or effort.

If the ECM field size was related to the speed of the mech's travel it would have more balance than it currently does.

If at greater than 100kph the field only covered the mech in question
If at around 40kph the field could only cover ~40m (enough for a lance to pack in tightly)
If the mech had to sit still for the field to extend outward to 180, and if the mech moved it caused the field to collapse...

it would be much more balanced that it is. The issue really is a complete lack of lock ability against an entire team.

It's not some soap bubble floating around the mech, ffs. It's a jamming signal being broadcast. Any speed much below the speed of light isn't going to have much affect on that.

[Bront]

Lykaon, on 06 November 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

????

The ECM commando D has long been the go to mech for commando chassis it has 3 missile hardpoints (3 SSRMs)

The Cicada with ECM is arguably the best Cicada variant in addition to ECM.

And the Atlas DDc was probably the most commonly deployed Atlas before ECM. 2 Energy hardpoints 2 Ballistic hardpoints and 3 missile hardpoints.Maybe the RS varient was giving it a rn for it's money but ECM,now it's a no brainer for the DDC.

I'm admittedly not very familiar with the Cicada (though I know the X5 is considered to be a good Cicada chasis), but the 3M felt rather limited to me. Then again, maybe that's why folks don't like Cicada.

I've got the 2D, but prior to the speed bump, I liked the other chasis better, and if I was forced to run a commando without ECM, I think I like the 1B or 3A better, and the TDK is actually useful now. Then again, I was using them when streaks only did 1.5, which made them pretty useless.

The DDC is lacking compared to the RS (2 extra arm energy mounts, though a lack of Balistics means it's AC20, Gauss, or AC10 on the RS or you're doing it wrong), or the D (1 missile slot for 2 energy slot that allow you to zombie as an atlas), though the 3rd missile slot is nice for an SRM for brawling. With ECM though, the disadvantages are minor enough it's not a real issue.

Then again, that's my opinion.

If they really want an inferior mech to get ECM, give the Stalker 4N ECM. It's by far the worst stalker with no advantages (no bonus twist) and the fewest hard points (missing a 10 tube missile launcher with no comps, one 2 stalkers with less than 10 hardpoints, the other being an LRM20 capable mech.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Ecm is in a decent place right now but if you bothered to bring tag, it shouldn't take longer to get a lock with your missiles, it should take a normal amount of time to get a lock, unless you have Artemis, then it should take about as much time as if you had an artemis, currently that is my only real complaint. I mean, if I decided to waste a ton on tag, it should give me locks at the very least at my normal speed of locking, whether it be artemis enhanced or not. Considering that ecm automatically hides all targets under it's umbrella from normal indirect bombardment via sensor locks from allies and that I'll have to expose my self and leave myself open while I attain a lock on my intended target I think its perfectly fair to allow me to attain said lock at my default speed.

[Prezimonto]

OneEyed Jack, on 06 November 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

It's not some soap bubble floating around the mech, ffs. It's a jamming signal being broadcast. Any speed much below the speed of light isn't going to have much affect on that.

Actually, I don't care what's believable. We're playing a game with Giant Stompy Robots and missiles that travel less than 150kph. All I care about is game play balance... and that idea would help with balance.

... and if you want to rationalize it, the ECM needs to turn to the local surfaces to provide an appropriate jamming signal. That makes as much sense as anything in this game.

Edited by Prezimonto, 06 November 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[Goose]

ECM shuts down the R key entirely, requiring extraordinary preparation to counter: The kind of prep you'll never see from PuGs, whom, honestly, are just trying to drive a build they like.

Four or more PuGs on a team facing ECM means the games in undertime …

Separate Elos for being in and out-of a team might cover this, but I have my doughts, at this late date …

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Captain Stiffy, on 06 November 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

ECM is the ONLY thing standing between us an another LRMpocalypse.

I absolutely guarantee any further nerf to ECM and the LRM boats will be 8/12 on every team.

I think we've already been seeing a resurgence in LRMs with all the new (non-ECM) Phoenix mechs on the field and fewer ECM mechs being run. However, my new twin-AMS Jester eats LRMs for breakfast...

[Murphy7]

Actually, I thought LRMs were making a slight comeback in the LRM5 x (a bunch) troll builds, and the occasional stomping artillery piece. I think we would see LRMs more reliably if we had any clue in advance of the type of map we're going to be on.

Of course, that goes for many other builds as well.

[Captain Stiffy]

Murphy7, on 06 November 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Actually, I thought LRMs were making a slight comeback in the LRM5 x (a bunch) troll builds, and the occasional stomping artillery piece. I think we would see LRMs more reliably if we had any clue in advance of the type of map we're going to be on.

Of course, that goes for many other builds as well.

I think generally the problem with LRM boats is that in the current game they are too slow. Getting left by your team to die to lights sucks and it happens a lot at < 60 KPH.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Captain Stiffy, on 06 November 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

I think generally the problem with LRM boats is that in the current game they are too slow. Getting left by your team to die to lights sucks and it happens a lot at < 60 KPH.

It can be an issue but I usually just keep a good eye on my team and try not to be the last one to move. Lrms would actually be in a good place where it not for TAG not being a very effective counter to ecm.
Compare it to BAP it increases sensor range, decreases the amount of time it takes to get detailed target info, completely blocks out ecm within 150 m and can detect powered down mechs within 180 m, its a superb counter to ecm for anybody that uses streaks, compare it to tag, it gives a decrease to lock time when you get a lock within 750m or less and it will break through ecm, slowly I might add. It's a lacking counter for anybody that's an lrm boat and it uses an energy hard-point, the BAP in comparison does not.

On top of all that, you have to spend a good three seconds exposing yourself as an lrm boat and get a LOS on the enemy for about 3 seconds to even break that ecm, and there really is nothing Tag can truly do about your ability of indirect fire being snatched away. I also wonder why lrms have 2 counters dedicated to it. AMS was already enough but did they really need ecm on top of that? Lrms seem like they have been put under the Bus by PGI, for what reason I cannot truly fathom, would it kill them to make TAG preserve your lock speed against ecm? Is it asking too much to have tag be able to do that?

Edited by PalmaRoma, 06 November 2013 - 04:39 PM.

[Mycrus]

Please do beat the dead and burried horse...

ECM has been nurfed to the ground and is only situationally useful at best...

L2
BAP
PPC
TAG
UAV
RANGE

[Murphy7]

Mycrus, on 06 November 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

Please do beat the dead and burried horse...

ECM has been nurfed to the ground and is only situationally useful at best...

L2
BAP
PPC
TAG
UAV
RANGE

Oh, well if you put it that way.... No.

[Dirkdaring]

Want to know the real kicker with ECM?

In Battletech it didn't make mechs not able to be locked on for LRMs. It only affected fire controls like Artmis and Narc Beacons.

Normal LRMs? Unaffected by ECM.