269 replies to this topic

[DrSlamastika]

Yes I know, I am best and my team usually winning all the time (just joke ) but this was to much, they do really nothing.

And thats the deffinitely matchmaking problem, thats not normal - "sometimes you win sometimes you loose".

Its just bad game blance I think.

[Viges]

Yea because in true sport everyone is equal in skill ...right? right? *facepalm*

[Barantor]

Even E sports have only the best character/tank/whatever on each team to the amount they can take.

Look at world of tanks, they have a 42 point system for a lot of their tournaments, meaning the tiers of your tanks have to equal 42 on each team, and you can have 7 players per team.

What happens?

They take 5 tier 8 tanks and 2 tier 1 tanks. Why do they do this? It maximizes their firepower and armor on those 5 tanks and they use the little tier 1 tanks for extra eyes. They get the absolute best tier 1s mathematically and then get lots of fast firing, hard hitting tier 8s with maybe one or two heavier armored tier 8s to take any hits.

Why does this matter?

If weight limits are on in MWO this is the same kind of meta that will happen. Class limits will be better for the CW game than weight balancing, unless mediums are made into some sort of more agile class of mechs. We will see.

[Vodrin Thales]

Void Angel, on 06 November 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

So were you a premade, or random team?

Those were two 12 man pre-mades.

[Vodrin Thales]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

Took folks a while to learn what I knew last December it seems. And those are Steiner wannabes. They aren't flying the Mailed fist.

Nope, but the mailed fist can feel free to hire us once CW comes out.

[Joseph Mallan]

Quote

It sickens me that there are people who run this sort of team. What is MWO coming to?

Zeta Battalion Wolf's Dragoons?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 November 2013 - 06:30 AM.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

I personally have no problem someone taking an all Atlas team to 12-mans. It's a bad combination

And obviously The Templars did this just for the giggles so I wouldn't be so stressed about it. If you want the "MWO e-sport" take part in Run hot or die... You can make a new topic after that. Full of tears

[Joseph Mallan]

IV Amen, on 07 November 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

I personally have no problem someone taking an all Atlas team to 12-mans. It's a bad combination

And obviously The Templars did this just for the giggles so I wouldn't be so stressed about it. If you want the "MWO e-sport" take part in Run hot or die... You can make a new topic after that. Full of tears

So a shenanigans drop?

[Kunae]

MWO will never be an "e-sport" because the people in control of balance at PGI have no clue, whatsoever. Anecdotal match "evidence" has no relevance.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

So a shenanigans drop?

Succesful trolling at least

[Fate 6]

Sandpit, on 06 November 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

No, just someone trying to propagate and fear monger new players and hoping that this helps strengthen some cause, probably to do with merfing teams because they're so "OP", but this one is versatile, it could easily go in one of the "too many assaults", atlas are op, MM in general, tonnage restrictions, but I'm betting some pugstomp slander personally

You're assuming a lot of things and making completely unfounded accusations, when the obvious issue here is 12v12 and tonnage limits in general (not the matchmaking system, that's a whole other can of worms). Please stay on topic.

MWO won't be a real esport if teams cannot realistically compete online. No ability to run our own private/custom matches, no good system for 12v12. Sure, teams can "practice" a bit, but it's never going to be anywhere near competitive enough to matter. And I'm not even going to get into all of the crippling balance issues (or bugs, depending on what PGI decides on any given day).

[Kunae]

Fate 6, on 07 November 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

And I'm not even going to get into all of the crippling balance issues (or bugs, depending on what PGI decides on any given day).

That was just their position at that time...

[Fate 6]

Kunae, on 07 November 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

MWO will never be an "e-sport" because the people in control of balance at PGI have no clue, whatsoever. Anecdotal match "evidence" has no relevance.

I think we can simply look at the non-anecdotal part of the post which is the fact that 12v12 is a complete free-for-all in terms of team composition/tonnage and there's hardly any competitive nature to it as it stands now. The "assertion" that Atlases are OP is opinion to an extent, but we all know that certain mechs/classes/chassis are significantly better than others and PGI doesn't balance that much either.

[Vodrin Thales]

DrSlamastika, on 07 November 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Yes I know, I am best and my team usually winning all the time (just joke ) but this was to much, they do really nothing.

And thats the deffinitely matchmaking problem, thats not normal - "sometimes you win sometimes you loose".

Its just bad game blance I think.

To blame that kind of match on the matchmaker is a bit of nonsense. If that is what happens in every match you play for 6 months then maybe, but much more likely some good players on the losing team had a bad game. I had a match where I dropped solo last night and did only 25 damage in one of my better mechs and my team was steamrolled. I followed that with a 12-10 win with 500 damage and 5 kills in the same mech. It was mostly the same pilots in both games, we just made some bad tactical errors in the 1st game. So to blame outcomes on the matchmaker with no evidence except the match had a lopsided outcome makes no sense whatsoever.

[Kunae]

Fate 6, on 07 November 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

I think we can simply look at the non-anecdotal part of the post which is the fact that 12v12 is a complete free-for-all in terms of team composition/tonnage and there's hardly any competitive nature to it as it stands now. The "assertion" that Atlases are OP is opinion to an extent, but we all know that certain mechs/classes/chassis are significantly better than others and PGI doesn't balance that much either.

12v12(and 8v8 before it) has no weight-class matching, by design.

For a real "competitive" game, everything needs to be properly balanced, and consistent. This wildly changing extreme meta environment that PGI has created, just does not work for that purpose.

[Banditman]

So yes, this is my guys having a laugh. It happens to us too. For instance:



We don't come here and complain about it. We just move on. Most of the time you'll find our drops relatively balanced, unless we're having a laugh or trying something weird or new.

Like most everyone else, we're very much in favor of weight limits being imposed sooner rather than later.

[Fate 6]

Barantor, on 07 November 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

Even E sports have only the best character/tank/whatever on each team to the amount they can take.

Look at world of tanks, they have a 42 point system for a lot of their tournaments, meaning the tiers of your tanks have to equal 42 on each team, and you can have 7 players per team.

What happens?

They take 5 tier 8 tanks and 2 tier 1 tanks. Why do they do this? It maximizes their firepower and armor on those 5 tanks and they use the little tier 1 tanks for extra eyes. They get the absolute best tier 1s mathematically and then get lots of fast firing, hard hitting tier 8s with maybe one or two heavier armored tier 8s to take any hits.

Why does this matter?

If weight limits are on in MWO this is the same kind of meta that will happen. Class limits will be better for the CW game than weight balancing, unless mediums are made into some sort of more agile class of mechs. We will see.

They are, generally, more agile already. Just look at twist numbers on things like the Hunchback. You can basically shoot people behind you. They're also pretty fast (4P going 80 with 9ML is pretty easy to do). 12v12 makes the problem even worse since a single medium will die nearly instantly to a lance of assaults. In a situation of 8 Hunchbacks and 4 Atlases I would likely give the fight to the Atlases since they can pack a bigger punch, and generally do it at longer ranges for longer before overheating (unless they're rocking a full brawler build, and then 2-3 of those will 1shot a Hunchback).

Kunae, on 07 November 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

12v12(and 8v8 before it) has no weight-class matching, by design.

For a real "competitive" game, everything needs to be properly balanced, and consistent. This wildly changing extreme meta environment that PGI has created, just does not work for that purpose.

And there's the problem.

Honestly the game will never be balanced with the amount of bugs and inconsistency in the game. See: missiles, always, ever since closed beta. RIP SRMs and 2/3 of my medium mechs.

Edited by Fate 6, 07 November 2013 - 07:01 AM.

[Vodrin Thales]

Fate 6, on 07 November 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

They are, generally, more agile already. Just look at twist numbers on things like the Hunchback. You can basically shoot people behind you. They're also pretty fast (4P going 80 with 9ML is pretty easy to do). 12v12 makes the problem even worse since a single medium will die nearly instantly to a lance of assaults. In a situation of 8 Hunchbacks and 4 Atlases I would likely give the fight to the Atlases since they can pack a bigger punch, and generally do it at longer ranges for longer before overheating (unless they're rocking a full brawler build, and then 2-3 of those will 1shot a Hunchback).


And there's the problem.

Honestly the game will never be balanced with the amount of bugs and inconsistency in the game. See: missiles, always, ever since closed beta. RIP SRMs and 2/3 of my medium mechs.

I think it is way too early to make this kind of blanket statement. Weapons may be nowhere near balanced, but balance and general gameplay has improved greatly over the last 6 months. Tonnage limits are coming, and hopefully PGI will listen to the community feedback and place mech class limits in with them/instead of them. That will greatly improve gameplay in the 12 man queue in my opinion.

[Kunae]

Fate 6, on 07 November 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

They are, generally, more agile already. Just look at twist numbers on things like the Hunchback. You can basically shoot people behind you. They're also pretty fast (4P going 80 with 9ML is pretty easy to do). 12v12 makes the problem even worse since a single medium will die nearly instantly to a lance of assaults. In a situation of 8 Hunchbacks and 4 Atlases I would likely give the fight to the Atlases since they can pack a bigger punch, and generally do it at longer ranges for longer before overheating (unless they're rocking a full brawler build, and then 2-3 of those will 1shot a Hunchback).

The biggest problems that mediums face are Victors and similar. Heavies and assaults that run just as fast, or faster than mediums, pack more firepower, and are more agile than many meds.

This was a poor design/implementation choice.

Fate 6, on 07 November 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

And there's the problem.

Honestly the game will never be balanced with the amount of bugs and inconsistency in the game. See: missiles, always, ever since closed beta. RIP SRMs and 2/3 of my medium mechs.

I agree. The gutting of SRM's back in Feb/March, and previously with the spread in Aug '12, has hurt the balance of this game in innumerable ways.

Edited by Kunae, 07 November 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[Ngamok]

Purlana, on 06 November 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Should have used 12 Highlanders. Gotta follow the meta properly dudes...

That'll be the next screen shot.