910 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

PappySmurf, on 21 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

I would love to fix the format Joseph but PGI just cannot seem to get WIN8 and there website to work properly when every one else on the internet can?

I can see where that would be a problem!

[Tactical Error]

o_0

[Squiggy McPew]

PappySmurf, on 21 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

I would love to fix the format Joseph but PGI just cannot seem to get WIN8 and there website to work properly when every one else on the internet can??

Off topic but I had this issue too in win7 with ie11. Whatever update m$ rolled out a week ago broke it badly and I had to entirely disable ie11 and go to chrome.

[Sandpit]

PappySmurf, on 21 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

I would love to fix the format Joseph but PGI just cannot seem to get WIN8 and there website to work properly when every one else on the internet can??

just FYI, it's not a windows thing, it's an explorer thing. Use another browser. That fixed the issue for me on my surface pro

[Mercules]

PappySmurf, on 21 November 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

I say you may be right in one way MWO is different than MW4 was in many things missile avoidance is one of them.But you proved my point that the missiles in MWO are like the missiles were in MechAssault auto tracking to a point they even fly around buildings that should provide cove but do not or any obstacle your trying to use for cover. I play assaults to mediums and I truly cannot avoid the missile spammers because the mechs are just to un maneuverable and slow turning rates and slow acceleration times.This along with by the time they lock-fire and hit you is just a matter of seconds 3-6 at the most which with the slow maneuvering mechs you cannot get undercover fast enough to avoid death 90% of the time.Plus like you said if they have a spotter ® ing you constantly with 2-6 missile boats your fried even in a faster medium.So in conclusion I would say they need to fix the missile arc lower make the mechs turning rate and acceleration faster just more maneuverable like in Mechwarrior4 and for the love of god fix the joystick problems so it was like in Mechwarrior4 where I can use my joystick again.

I avoid missiles in a Jagger and you can't in a medium? ...so at this point I just have to say:

120mm, on 21 November 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Off topic but I had this issue too in win7 with ie11. Whatever update m$ rolled out a week ago broke it badly and I had to entirely disable ie11 and go to chrome.

People use IE? I'm sorry.

[Drunk Canuck]

CapperDeluxe, on 07 November 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

The circle of OP crying life:

- LRM OP
- PPC OP
- Gauss OP
- SRM OP
- UAC OP
- PPC OP
- LRM OP

it just goes around and around and around

UAC's are underpowered with the cooldown nerf, but are still viable. LRM's need some tweaking to the arc of the launch because in terms of physics, missiles would need a long range in order to get to the kind of arc that they are currently capable of. Some may disagree with my current view, but there is no way in hell missiles should be able to literally travel almost straight upwards and come down on your head if you happen to move behind a rock or building and the enemy is less then 700 meters away. Missiles should require more distance and more time to get to a high elevation, and doing that would literally balance them out without adjusting damage. Make LRM launching require more distance for a bigger arc and that if your target closes the gap while your missiles are mid flight, they have to retain that arc and elevation gain, which could potentially cause the LRM's to miss because they wouldn't be able to retain the exact same trajectory all the time.

[Baltasar]

Lrms are about where they need to be (although I think they can do with a little bit in tweaking in speed). If you are having trouble here's some tips:

1. Pack AMS. AMS isn't meant to shoot down every missile (although it helps if there is a group that is packing AMS then it can shoot down a lot), but it will help you take less damage as you move from cover to cover (which brings me to the next step). The thing that annoys me most about AMS is that I can't turn it off when I'm behind cover and I'm wasting ammo.

2. Cover: You have to use it properly. Just because you can't see your enemy doesn't mean they can't hit you. Missiles arc. So you either have to be standing behind a tall enough vertical cover, or if the cover slopes, you have to move laterally so the missiles can't track you. Also, if the LRM boat had line of sight to begin, you break lock, and then I, or some one else, sees you again before the missiles finish their flight, My missiles can turn at weird angles when I re-acquire lock. So, wait for the incoming missile message to go away completely (and a little bit longer for some one else to pop out and get noticed).

3. ECM is your friend, so if the other team appears to be missile heavy and you have an ecm mech on your team, stay near by and watch out for being tagged.

If you are still getting hit by missiles then you either aren't learning to use your terain right or you are running into a LRM mech and/or spotter that are doing what they are suppose to do. I typically run a c1 with 2 lrm15, tag and a LL. I move fast enough where I can either keep up with my team staying about 300 m providing them with missile support to soften and kill mechs faster or I can flank and fire at you when you think you are behind cover from the other LRM mech or direct fire mechs. So you are getting hit from both sides and you can't hide.

As to the multiple LRM 10 stalker, 1 they are having to fight ghost heat to run it. 2. They are an assault mech they should be doing damage and be feared. If you are constantly getting hit by them then you are doing something wrong or they are doing something right. The A1 6 5lrms are too chancy for me. They rely too much on the other team being bad for my taste. Especially since the mech can't carry it's own tag.

As to the person getting their center melted by LRMs. 1 you probably didn't torso twist fast enough, 2 for most missiles to hit center they have to have LOS for artemis plus a tag has to be on you. That's 2 things that can be avoided or you are just in a bad spot and doesn't mean the weapon system is OP. ppcs and autocannons are more dangerous in the fact they can shoot and duck faster than an LRM mech (I have to hold lock where direct fire does not) That is why you see pop tarts with direct fire as the competitive meta and NOT lrms.

EDIT: TL:DR LRMs are fine, They have had their issues in the past, but they are finally about right. Learn to use the sickly amount of Hard counters to the weapon system.

Edited by Baltasar, 21 November 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

Baltasar, on 21 November 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

As to the person getting their center melted by LRMs. 1 you probably didn't torso twist fast enough, 2 for most missiles to hit center they have to have LOS for artemis plus a tag has to be on you. That's 2 things that can be avoided or you are just in a bad spot and doesn't mean the weapon system is OP. ppcs and autocannons are more dangerous in the fact they can shoot and duck faster than an LRM mech (I have to hold lock where direct fire does not) That is why you see pop tarts with direct fire as the competitive meta and NOT lrms.

Uhhh, numerous times in pretty much every Mech I have or had in my Mech Lab, has had the same issues with Artemis equipped LRM boats. I can still run behind cover and even with AMS, the majority of the missiles hit the CT and that includes torso twisting. Try it sometime, have someone lob 45 or 50 Artemis equipped missiles at you, duck behind cover while the missiles are tracking you, torso twist and see if it purely hits your arms and side torso. It doesn't, and that's why Artemis needs a spread change for LRM's.

[Cimarb]

Galenit, on 21 November 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

I have the impression that something wiht ams is wrong.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it works not.
Tonight in a match i was spectating a mech with ams and 700 ammo left, he was shoot by mass-lrm5, he died, the ams has still 700 ammo left.

Maybe its about the ping?
Like the hits that give no feedback ...

AMS does have a firing arc, at least on missiles fired at you, so the attacker just may have not been in that arc at the time. If it was firing, the AMS ammo would have went down. Since it didn't go down, that means it didn't fire.

120mm, on 21 November 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Off topic but I had this issue too in win7 with ie11. Whatever update m$ rolled out a week ago broke it badly and I had to entirely disable ie11 and go to chrome.

Chrome (or Firefox) are much more stable and usable than IE. Even Coast, which is the new version of Opera (and what I use on my iPad), is more usable than IE...

Drunk Canuck, on 21 November 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

UAC's are underpowered with the cooldown nerf, but are still viable. LRM's need some tweaking to the arc of the launch because in terms of physics, missiles would need a long range in order to get to the kind of arc that they are currently capable of. Some may disagree with my current view, but there is no way in hell missiles should be able to literally travel almost straight upwards and come down on your head if you happen to move behind a rock or building and the enemy is less then 700 meters away. Missiles should require more distance and more time to get to a high elevation, and doing that would literally balance them out without adjusting damage. Make LRM launching require more distance for a bigger arc and that if your target closes the gap while your missiles are mid flight, they have to retain that arc and elevation gain, which could potentially cause the LRM's to miss because they wouldn't be able to retain the exact same trajectory all the time.

Never go into a modern combat war with this thinking - you won't last long. MWO is set in 3048-3050, and even with the loss of technology during the Succession Wars, they are still immensely more technologically advanced than we are in 2013. We have had tracking missile systems for 20+ years, including fly-by-wire, laser guided, heat seeking and many other versions, and that is just the non-secret ones. They now even have a sniper rifle that you can purchase that will allow you to hit a small target from over 1000 yards without any skill in firearms. The technology we currently have is more advanced than what you are describing, and the technology in 3050 should be even more advanced! Considering the explosives packed in missiles this large, buildings should give little to no cover, since they would simply shoot right through most real buildings and make an explosion large enough that it wouldn't matter anyways, but instead the current MWO missiles are nothing more than large semi-guided bullets...

[Kutfroat]

lrms = the way of the unskilled poossies. even worse than artillery in wot ever was.

Edited by Kutfroat, 21 November 2013 - 01:45 PM.

[Cimarb]

Drunk Canuck, on 21 November 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Uhhh, numerous times in pretty much every Mech I have or had in my Mech Lab, has had the same issues with Artemis equipped LRM boats. I can still run behind cover and even with AMS, the majority of the missiles hit the CT and that includes torso twisting. Try it sometime, have someone lob 45 or 50 Artemis equipped missiles at you, duck behind cover while the missiles are tracking you, torso twist and see if it purely hits your arms and side torso. It doesn't, and that's why Artemis needs a spread change for LRM's.

You are doing it wrong or grossly misrepresenting your point. When you say "the majority of the missiles hit the CT", how are you judging that? With 50 missiles (just to make the math easier), you are talking about 50 points of damage. If you torso twisted the heck out of it like you should have and got it evenly distributed across all five upper hitboxes (arms and torsos), you have 12-13 damage to every component, which is going to be a substantial amount of damage but likely wouldn't even penetrate the armor in any of those areas. If you had that same amount of damage done with any other weapon system, such as five PPCs, you would have received it all in one single location and likely lost the section and everything in it, whether you torso twisted or not. Which would you prefer?

[Sandpit]

Kutfroat, on 21 November 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

lrms = the way of the unskilled poossies. even worse than artillery in wot ever was.

Thank you for your informative and constructive post. This is exactly the kind of intelligent conversation the community and forums have needed for a long time now

[Mercules]

Drunk Canuck, on 21 November 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Uhhh, numerous times in pretty much every Mech I have or had in my Mech Lab, has had the same issues with Artemis equipped LRM boats. I can still run behind cover and even with AMS, the majority of the missiles hit the CT and that includes torso twisting. Try it sometime, have someone lob 45 or 50 Artemis equipped missiles at you, duck behind cover while the missiles are tracking you, torso twist and see if it purely hits your arms and side torso. It doesn't, and that's why Artemis needs a spread change for LRM's.

1. If Artemis is making a difference then you are in direct LoS of the mechs using it. Your weapons probably travel faster than theirs. Maybe shoot them?

2. If you duck into cover and just stand there you are going to get hit. I have been telling you this.

3. If you twist, yes it DOES hit arms unless you are using a mech that has tiny arms.

4.

[Kutfroat]

Sandpit, on 21 November 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Thank you for your informative and constructive post. This is exactly the kind of intelligent conversation the community and forums have needed for a long time now

lrms should´nt even be discussed in their current state. autolock/autoaim is ok for ssrms, as a short range defense against fast moving light mechs. lrm flooding is just a sad trolling mechanism for bored or unskilled players. make them indirect firesupport incapable of killing or force some skill based gamplaymechanic onto them. and the sad part is, the way lrms work now, they don´t even need a brain or any sense of srategy/tactic to be used, just lameness. they only favor the same boring gamplay as artillery in wot did...just stay as close as possible to cover and jumpjet-snipe.

[Cimarb]

Kutfroat, on 21 November 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

lrms should´nt even be discussed in their current state. autolock/autoaim is ok for ssrms, as a short range defense against fast moving light mechs. lrm flooding is just a sad trolling mechanism for bored or unskilled players. make them indirect firesupport incapable of killing or force some skill based gamplaymechanic onto them. and the sad part is, the way lrms work now, they don´t even need a brain or any sense of srategy/tactic to be used, just lameness. they only favor the same boring gamplay as artillery in wot did...just stay as close as possible to cover and jumpjet-snipe.

Troll be trolling.

LRMs require more skill than direct fire because you have to retain a lock. Fire, twist to absorb a hit, then fire again? Nope, can't do that with LRMs. Want to fire quick before ducking behind a building to avoid return fire? Nope, can't do that with LRMs. Want to shoot anything at brawling distance? Nope, not with LRMs.

At this point, and probably for all thirteen pages as a matter of fact, anyone complaining about LRMs is either trolling or very inexperienced (which may be the same thing).

[Kutfroat]

Cimarb, on 21 November 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

Troll be trolling.

LRMs require more skill than direct fire because you have to retain a lock. Fire, twist to absorb a hit, then fire again? Nope, can't do that with LRMs. Want to fire quick before ducking behind a building to avoid return fire? Nope, can't do that with LRMs. Want to shoot anything at brawling distance? Nope, not with LRMs.

At this point, and probably for all thirteen pages as a matter of fact, anyone complaining about LRMs is either trolling or very inexperienced (which may be the same thing).

are you serious? are you seriously implying that lrms - the lock on and keeping it - require any skill at all? be honest to your self! maybe if you´re 80+, blind on one eye and only got one hand. your´re so far away that you barely need to move the crosshair to keep it on target...if you really think lrms need the slightest skill, you really should stick to other games. if you really struggle to keep the target locked besides losing the lock because you have no line of sight or no ally targeting for you, this is definitely not your game.

[Mercules]

Kutfroat, on 21 November 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

are you serious? are you seriously implying that lrms - the lock on and keeping it - require any skill at all? be honest to your self! maybe if you´re 80+, blind on one eye and only got one hand. your´re so far away that you barely need to move the crosshair to keep it on target...if you really think lrms need the slightest skill, you really should stick to other games. if you really struggle to keep the target locked besides losing the lock because you have no line of sight or no ally targeting for you, this is definitely not your game.

Do you honestly think moving your mouse 2 millimeters to the right requires any skill at all?


LRMs need a spotter or a distraction. PPC/AC/Laser shots hit long before LRMs hit the person shooting them so you need to have a spotter so they can't shoot you directly or you need to pick targets that will be engaged in a way that allows you to launch of them without retaliation.

Most weapon systems let you fire and then duck into cover. LRMs might allow you to fire from cover but only if you have someone else spotting. Otherwise you have to be out of cover the entire time you track that mech and exposed. If not you have to communicate with your teammate or be almost presentient as to what targets are going to be available the whole time your slow weapons crawl across the sky.

They are negated by your opponent breaking LoS, using geography to block them despite you seeing them clearly, ECM, AMS, and when up close.

Most LRM focussed pilots need to keep very keen situational awareness or they will find themselves flanked and killed up close. They have to shift with their team all the while likely trying to hold locks on targets that their team is grabbing for only moments.

LRMs are incredibly easy to use poorly and very hard to use well.

[Kutfroat]

Mercules, on 21 November 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

Do you honestly think moving your mouse 2 millimeters to the right requires any skill at all?


LRMs need a spotter or a distraction. PPC/AC/Laser shots hit long before LRMs hit the person shooting them so you need to have a spotter so they can't shoot you directly or you need to pick targets that will be engaged in a way that allows you to launch of them without retaliation.

Most weapon systems let you fire and then duck into cover. LRMs might allow you to fire from cover but only if you have someone else spotting. Otherwise you have to be out of cover the entire time you track that mech and exposed. If not you have to communicate with your teammate or be almost presentient as to what targets are going to be available the whole time your slow weapons crawl across the sky.

They are negated by your opponent breaking LoS, using geography to block them despite you seeing them clearly, ECM, AMS, and when up close.

Most LRM focussed pilots need to keep very keen situational awareness or they will find themselves flanked and killed up close. They have to shift with their team all the while likely trying to hold locks on targets that their team is grabbing for only moments.

LRMs are incredibly easy to use poorly and very hard to use well.

this is pointless. lrms are the most broken weaponsytem in the game when boated, because they need no effort at all to hit. just sit back and shoot whatever gets targeted by your team. maybe they are team dependent, but they for sure need no personal skill to be used.at all.

[Nimura Nekogami]

Why? Why are people complaining about LRM`s now?

LRM`s are about right at the moment. Without spotting you do nothing with it. It is only an "fire-support" weapon system.
(they are not doing an large amount of dmg! )
They are of tactical value. Yes. It makes people pay for theyr own "fails".

Thats it.

Some acting like LRM-Armageddon v. 2.0

(sry.....i dont get it....im calm down now )

[Mercules]

Kutfroat, on 21 November 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

this is pointless. lrms are the most broken weaponsytem in the game when boated, because they need no effort at all to hit. just sit back and shoot whatever gets targeted by your team. maybe they are team dependent, but they for sure need no personal skill to be used.at all.

Stop... people at work are looking at me funny from me bursting out laughing.

Exactly what do you consider "skill"? Please tell me it isn't, "I can point at stuff with my mouse and push buttons!"