125 replies to this topic

[GalaxyBluestar]

Daekar, on 07 November 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

"Mr. Harmony Gold, sir... we was hoping' to have a word wit' you."
"Very well, gentlemen, what can I do for you?"
"Well ya see, it's about my little brodda. I love my little brodda. And he loves his little Battlemechs. You know what Battlemechs are, Mr. Harmony Gold?"
"You could say I'm familiar with them."
"We thought you might be, didn't we Vinnie?"
"Yeah, we figured you was familiar, you could say that."
"So my little brodda, he wants to play with his favorite Marauder on the computer, see? Da t'ing is, we heard you said he couldn't do dat."
"Well, we at Harmony Gold feel it's important to maintain the value and security of our intellectual properties and - "
"Oh, I see! I definitely do see. I do sympathize with you Mr. Harmony Gold. Vinnie here sympathizes with you too. He's sensitive, Vinnie is. Like my little brodda."
"Well, sir, I sincerely regret that your brother has been negatively affected by other's unwillingness to properly license our valuable IP. I wish I could help."
"That's very kind of you, Mr. Harmony Gold. Very decent. He's decent, eh Vinnie?"
"Yeah decent. You'd figure a decent guy like that could work out a deal."
"A deal! Boy, ya know, it's a good thing I keep Vinnie around, he's so smart. Here was me, thinkin' there ain't nothin' you could do for my little brodda, and bam! A deal, Vinnie says! What kinda deal, Vinnie?"
"Oh, me, I don't do no fancy shmancy deals."
"Ah, a decent guy like Mr. Harmony Gold here don't mind some lowly type deals, do ya?"
"Well gentlemen, I'm afraid I really can't commit to - "
"Oh, it's nothing really! Nuttin' to commit to, is there Vinnie? Just an understanding."
" Yeah, an understanding. Cause it'd be a shame if Louie's brodda couldn't play with his little Marauder, wouldn't it?"
"Yeah, I can just see 'im now, cryin' on da floor his pretty little kneecaps all dirty. He has such nice little kneecaps."
"Ya know, Mr. Harmony Gold, I bet you have pretty kneecaps to. I can just tell, I'm gifted like that. Do ya like your kneecaps, Mr. Harmony Gold?"
"I'm not sure I see how that's relevant to our - "
"Not sure how it's relevant! Haha, he's a real joker, ain't he? A joker with pretty kneecaps, eh?"
"A real master alright, Louie, real funny guy."
"Well ya see the problem, Mr. Harmony Gold, is dat I promised my brodda you'd let him play his Marauder. I don't like to be made no liar, neither. Vinnie knows, I ain't no liar. And it makes to mad to think that you might make me a liar."
"You wouldn't like him when he's mad, neither. Goes crazy. Starts hittin' t'ings!"
"Dat's right. I start hittin' t'ings. T'ings like kneecaps. Right Vinnie?"
"Yeah, you don't wanna be messin' 'round with Louie when he's mad."
"Are you threatening, me sir!?"
"Threatenin'? Threatenin' you? Haha, threatenin' you.... that's a good one isn't it Louie?"
"We wouldn't never dream of threatenin' you! Nah, we never make threats, do we Vinnie? We make promises. Kinda like the one I made to my little brodda."
"And we don't never break promises, do we Louie?"
"Nah, we don't break no promises. Not promises. Sometimes odder stuff gets broke - "
" - Like kneecaps - "
"Yeah, like kneecaps. They get broke. But no promises. Capice, Mr Harmony Gold?"

[DirePhoenix]

Carrioncrows, on 09 November 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

Your ability to ignore evidence should be commended or your reading comprehension needs to be addressed.

If you want clarification on what is a pretty clear answer I suggest you ask Russ or PGI on the matter.

On to more important threads.

Check your own reading comprehension before making a judgement on others:

===========================================

• 
  
  Bhael Fire ‏@Bhael_Fire11 Oct
  @Locke_Jaw @russ_bullock @risko_vinsheen You can't make a completely redesigned Marauder? After all, the name is BT IP, right?
  Expand
  
  
• Bryan Ekman @bryanekman11 Oct
  
  @Bhael_Fire @Locke_Jaw @russ_bullock @risko_vinsheen We could. But the age old question - what are people's expectations?
  Expand

​==========================================

Key phrase: What are people's expectations?

If your expectations are the Macross art, then absolutely not. However, time and time again, we see that the Macross designs are exactly what people are expecting.

==========================================

• Serious Table @SeriousTable11 Oct
  
  bryanekman @Bhael_Fire @Locke_Jaw @russ_bullock @risko_vinsheen Have your concept artist draw a few designs, then have the community vote!
  Expand
  
  
• Russ Bullock @russ_bullock11 Oct
  
  SeriousTable @bryanekman @Bhael_Fire @Locke_Jaw @risko_vinsheen its not that simple..HG needs to vote as well and they always vote no

==============================================



Russ is definitely wrong about at least one of two things. Either:

• 1) HG does not "need to vote", or
  
• 2) HG does not "always vote no".

As evidenced by Catalyst/Topps continuing to make art for the "Unseen" with their own art for the past 10 years unhindered by HG for those designs.


The only reason HG would "need to vote" would be if they met "people's expectations" of it looking like the Macross art, which in that case, HG would most certainly "always vote no". BUT if we make new original designs, as we've seen Catalyst/Topps do, then HG has absolutely no reason to be involved.

And also nowhere in there was any evidence that they have ever actually taken anything to HG, as you claimed earlier.

Carrioncrows, on 09 November 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Don't you think that PGI hasn't already thought of the reseen mechs? Listen to the dev speak and interviews, so far all the designs they have taken to HG have been voted down. They may not look like anything close to their previous incarnations but because HG can claim that they were inspired or based upon their licensed material.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 09 November 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[stjobe]

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

And it is precisely this attitude that will ensure we never get a representation of the Marauder in MWO.

No, you're misunderestimating me.

I'd accept anything even remotely Marauder-like that Alex would make, since that fits the style of the other MWO 'mechs (none of which really look like the original TRO art - look at the Centurion, just for one).

It just needs to be done with love, then it'll be all right. It'll even be a godsend, since we'd be rid of all those abominable Reseen variants.

[WarReaver]

I miss the Marauder. Yes i did tweek it alittle, but it stayed almost identicle in load out or accepted book variants. I would be willing to keep an open mind to an "updated" version of it

[Nik Van Rhijn]

The shoulder mounted ballistic(s) would be handy like the S'Hawk. Whose to say that they haven't got another "pack" prepared for when the Clans launch to give the IS diehards something to spend their money on?

[General Taskeen]

DyDrimer, on 08 November 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

If we got the Marauder the forums would just whine about the CT being to big, or the arms being to easy to shoot.

Not if the CT and hitboxes are designed logically, like MW4. The CT sticks out, but when you shoot the side of it, that's your ST getting hit.

[Hexenhammer]

This dead horse issue is so dead we've started beating Patrick.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 10 November 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[DarkDevilDancer]

Whats a patrick?

[stjobe]

DarkDevilDancer, on 10 November 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Whats a patrick?

Dunno, but it looks a bit like a Reseen Marauder, doesn't it?

[DirePhoenix]

General Taskeen, on 10 November 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Not if the CT and hitboxes are designed logically, like MW4. The CT sticks out, but when you shoot the side of it, that's your ST getting hit.

That Marauder was created for a fan-created mod, and not the actual retail MW4 btw.

[Hans Von Lohman]

The Unseen mechs are popular with the fan base, I get it, but I think at this point they would have made them already if they thought they could. Nobody is silly enough to think the players wouldn't buy them.

Right now the best we can hope for are other mechs that are so similar that you can make it work to be in one mech and have it setup as if it were another.

The Firebrand Jeagermech is such a design, which can be rigged up as a Rifleman.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 11 November 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[Damia Savon]

Just to point out something...

People keep referring to patents but this is not a patent issue. It would be a patent issue if someone actually built a battlemech and someone tried to copy it.

It is an intellectual property issue. HG licensed the use of Macross from the original creators to use in Robotech. That includes the type of mechs in Macross/Robotech. The same would hold true if mech designs from Mospeada were used.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Answer to this question is...


If they decide to redesign the marauder, is it still actually the marauder?

[Ghogiel]

Allen Ward, on 09 November 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

That design is definitely a Marauder rip-off and HG would successfully sue PGI over it. Any giant robot design that has the characteristics of a Marauder will make them smile coldly and dial their laywers number. The legs, the typical arms/cannons with those edges, the back mounted AC cannon design, crooked stance, it is not possible to design a Marauder that looks like a Marauder for us but not for Harmony Gold.

It's funny since the word on the grape vine is IWM are going to produce the MAD- 4X based on shimmys redesigned MAD.

Should be due out this month apparently

So basically you wrong.

Edited by Ghogiel, 11 November 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[Damia Savon]

DirePhoenix, on 09 November 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

And it is precisely this attitude that will ensure we never get a representation of the Marauder in MWO.

There is a difference between a representation of a marauder and the actual design. Nothing is stopping PGI/Catalyst from designing something vaguely resembling a Marauder. The images you posted are just that which is why HG cannot sue them. Obviously you are happy with the designs you posted and would purchase and play them. PGI could simply name them something different and go from there.

There is a portion of the community that associates a name with a particular image. If you call it a Marauder then it should be a Marauder. Any design close enough to the original that part of the community will accept will need HG's approval which HG will not give.

Take a look at cars, the Corvette for example. Some like the original and others like the 70s, 80s or later models. People will argue endlessly over which model is the "real" Corvette. Only the original design is designated a classic car and people into classic cars want the originals. Others are happy with anything called a Corvette.

Representation vs. Original is an apple vs. oranges type argument.

[Damia Savon]

mwhighlander, on 11 November 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Answer to this question is...


If they decide to redesign the marauder, is it still actually the marauder?

Exactly, that is the central issue. If you call it a marauder then it should look like, if not be, the original. Otherwise it is not a marauder and you might as well call it something else like the Vampire or Werewolf.

[Ghogiel]

Damia Savon, on 11 November 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

Exactly, that is the central issue. If you call it a marauder then it should look like, if not be, the original. Otherwise it is not a marauder and you might as well call it something else like the Vampire or Werewolf.

I thought similarly and really I wasn't all that enamored with any previous redesign efforts on the MAD.





But then I saw this image of shimmies take on it next to a macross glaug and just changed my mind on the notion.

[Hexenhammer]

mwhighlander, on 11 November 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Answer to this question is...


If they decide to redesign the marauder, is it still actually the marauder?

Exactly. It's all about the looks and for some that's okay.

On a side note I think the marauder might be at a disadvantage in the current AC meta game.

[GalaxyBluestar]

mwhighlander, on 11 November 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

Answer to this question is...


If they decide to redesign the marauder, is it still actually the marauder?

well apparently the reseens have been enough to pull the wool over peoples eyes for a decade so. so for plenty it doesn't matter what it looks like, if it's got a loadout from BT and has a tag called marauder tied to it, then anything is exceptable as a maurder to some people. some poor misguided people.

Damia Savon, on 11 November 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

Exactly, that is the central issue. If you call it a marauder then it should look like, if not be, the original. Otherwise it is not a marauder and you might as well call it something else like the Vampire or Werewolf.

plenty are too impatient they're quiet happy to see a catapult with a cannon on top and some arms stuck on the sides or something like the reseen which has a bunch of visual features like a shadow cat. if the marauder ever got to MWO it mustn't be a copy pasta of something else, except something slightly simillar to the phract for lore reasons. if it looked anything like a pult or shadowcat i'd couldn't play the game anymore, it'd be a step too far in the wrong direction. that's saying something considering what's happened to the game this year!

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 11 November 2013 - 02:33 AM.

[stjobe]

Damia Savon, on 11 November 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

Exactly, that is the central issue. If you call it a marauder then it should look like, if not be, the original. Otherwise it is not a marauder and you might as well call it something else like the Vampire or Werewolf.

I don't think it's necessary to have the original; it wouldn't look at home in MWO anyway. But it needs to be instantly recognizable as a Marauder, and not be the fugly mess the Reseen designs are.

I'd love to see Alex take a stab at it, but I guess that's not happening until (if) it gets green-lighted for inclusion in MWO.

Oh, and I'm about as hard-line a TRO:3025 player as you can imagine, but I think Alex and the rest of the Art guys have made incredible work on redesigning the current 'mechs (as well as the Phoenix/Saber ones) for MWO, so I'm positive they'd do a great Marauder as well. As long as it's not the Reseen monstrosity, I'll probably be fine with it.