85 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Training Instructor, on 11 November 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Most of my romantic thoughts involve 20 year old girls, not 20 ton mechs.

If there's one thing I enjoy in a competitive team game, it is being a liability to my team. You see, my job is to make my team better by dying as early as possible, or doing trifling amounts of damage, which forces the rest of my team to work harder to win. Working harder makes them better players.

I'm pretty happy that PGI has produced a mech that is almost custom built for this very important role I've chosen.

Your sarcasm is enjoyable. Weak. But enjoyable. You act as if the Locust hasn't suffered as a whipping boy for almost 30 years! If you want to use one you have to accept the weaknesses along with the strengths. And the only strength of a Locust is... Its fast. There is no other virtue this weight class has. It's ONE job does not have a place in MW:O at the present.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 November 2013 - 06:17 AM.

[Chavette]

Deathlike, on 09 November 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Don't bother. Commandos do things Locusts can't do. Like, survive longer than 10 seconds in light vs light combat.

Never understood the hype around a 20 ton mech when we already had a 25 ton mech thats better in just about every form.

Edited by Chavette, 11 November 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[Shadey99]

Used correctly the 3M is highly effective. I'll even add that in the right conditions the 1V and 3S can be effective, though unlike the 3M they need other lights to run with.

I had the only 2 kills on my team in a game this morning with my 3M, having taken out a Blackjack by myself and then finished an Atlas... I nearly had a Victor as the enemy team won by cap in Assault.

I did a few other matches including several where I out fought most of my team. However what a Locust does least well is fight other lights. Against most Heavies and Assaults (even fast Victors or BMs) a Locust can run circles around them and do hit and fade tactics. But against a light... Well they just aren't fast enough and their armor is paper (ironic as stock they have some of the best armor on a light). So of course they die light on light. Your best bet is to do fighter tactics and stick to the rear of other lights.

They are not however useless, just not as optimal as some others.

Edited by Shadey99, 11 November 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[stjobe]

Shadey99, on 11 November 2013 - 06:21 AM, said:

(ironic as stock they have some of the best armor on a light)

Er, no. No, they don't. Their armour follow the same rules as anyone else (based on chassis tonnage), and no 20-tonner has ever had "some of the best armour on a light".

And yes, the 3M is the semi-viable variant; that doesn't make it good.

[Shadey99]

stjobe, on 11 November 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Er, no. No, they don't. Their armour follow the same rules as anyone else (based on chassis tonnage), and no 20-tonner has ever had "some of the best armour on a light".

They had 4 tons (3 on some versions) of armor stock. Which for stock was higher than the stock armor of Spiders (3-3.5) and matched Commandos (3-4) and Jenners (3.5-4). The Raven at 4.5 tons of armor is the only one to beat it among the mechs we have...

I think you missed 'stock' from what I said...

Edit: I double checked my numbers. All now match their 3025 and 3050 numbers.

Edited by Shadey99, 11 November 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

stjobe, on 11 November 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Er, no. No, they don't. Their armour follow the same rules as anyone else (based on chassis tonnage), and no 20-tonner has ever had "some of the best armour on a light".

And yes, the 3M is the semi-viable variant; that doesn't make it good.

I think he is referring to that A stock Locust is pretty near fully armored vs say a Jenner or Commando... Specially a Spider.

by Shadey

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 November 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[stjobe]

Shadey99, on 11 November 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

I think you missed 'stock' from what I said...

I did. I also missed the "ones we have available", but perhaps you didn't say that. There's plenty of lights with more armour stock than the Locust in the TROs.

[Tombstoner]

Encountered my first locust this weekend after reinstalling the game.... I was in my 4 mg 1 mpl spider. the locust didn't have a chance. i just cut off one leg and then the other. encounter was over in under 8 seconds. we made about 4 circles and he gave up after loosing one leg. later i gutted a stalker and battle master. what took me down was an ac-20 in the back torso at a range of a few meters. i learned my lesson buying the specal mechs like yen lo wang and founders. im so glade i refunded my massive shadow hawk 55 tone mech the size of and 80 ton.

[Ari Dian]

You act like you are surprissed that a 20t mech is worse than a 35t mech. You know the way of the matchmaking, the way the mechs are designed, the way the armor and weapons are calculated. And still come here and say its not fair?

You can see it in two ways. It is a 15t difference or even more extrem, a mech, nearly twice the weight. It is the same like comparing a Hunchback to an Atlas, and saying the Hunchback is to weak.

You might find the compare a little unfitting. But see it this way. The Jenner has nearly twice the internal structure and armor compared to a Locust.


And on the other hand, once the weight matching is coming (2016 or so), it will become more important. It just give your team more free room if you take a Locust over a Jenner.
It is the difference from an Orion to a Highlander or from a Centurion to a Jaggermech.

And in all honest. I have seen a team of 4 Locust taking out single mechs in no time. Or able to cap. Sure, 4 Jenner can do the same, but 4 Jenner weight 140t compared to the 80t of the Locust. And on this number it make already influence on the rest of the team.

stjobe, on 11 November 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I did. I also missed the "ones we have available", but perhaps you didn't say that. There's plenty of lights with more armour stock than the Locust in the TROs.

Wolfhound........

[Shadey99]

stjobe, on 11 November 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I did. I also missed the "ones we have available", but perhaps you didn't say that. There's plenty of lights with more armour stock than the Locust in the TROs.

Well for this era:
Wasp WSP-1A/WSP- 3M - 3 tons/2.5 tons
Stinger STG-3R/STG-5M - 3 tons/3.5 tons
Javelin JVN-10N/JVN-10P - 4 tons
Urbanmech URB-R60/URB-R63 - 6 tons
Valkyrie VLK-QA/VLK-QD - 6 tons
Firestarter FS9-H/FS9-S - 5.5 tons
Ostscout OST-7J/OST-7K - 4.5 tons
Panther PNT-6R/10K - 6.5 tons
Flea FLE-17 - 3 tons
Hornet HNT-151 - 3.5 tons
Mercury MCY-97 - 3 tons
Falcon FLC-4P - 6 tons
Firefly FFL-4B - 6.5 tons
Hermes HER-3S - 2.5 tons
Wolfhound WLF-2 - 7.5 tons

So yes... Some light mechs do have more armor, though most of those are slower. That a Jenner can go as fast as a Locust, outgun it, and have twice the armor is what kills even the 3M from being 'optimal' or 'competitive' (leaving out SSRMs).

Edited by Shadey99, 11 November 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[stjobe]

Shadey99, on 11 November 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

So yes... Some light mechs do have more armor, though most of those are slower. That a Jenner can go as fast as a Locust, outgun it, and have twice the armor is what kills even the 3M from being 'optimal' or 'competitive' (leaving out SSRMs).

And that's the problem with
1. Unlimited customization, and
2. Pilot skills that actively hinder weight class balance (I'm looking at you, Speed Tweak/Twist X/Twist speed/Arm reflex/Anchor Turn).

[Shadey99]

stjobe, on 11 November 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

And that's the problem with
1. Unlimited customization, and
2. Pilot skills that actively hinder weight class balance (I'm looking at you, Speed Tweak/Twist X/Twist speed/Arm reflex/Anchor Turn).

While I'm not one for limiting customization to much, I would have supported armor weight limits much like engine limits (Though the Commando now surpasses it's engine limit, so they don't seem to really care anymore about such things). Lack of some limits makes the JR7-F the best Jenner and arguably the best light in MWO.

As for pilot skills... I'd rather have mech specific tweaks, so some mechs could become incredibly fast or have better sensors and others would turn faster or cool better. However PGI has shown little interest in that for a long time.

[stjobe]

Shadey99, on 11 November 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Lack of some limits makes the JR7-F the best Jenner and arguably the best light in MWO.

Not arguably, it is simply the best; it's even better than some of the mediums.

Shadey99, on 11 November 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

As for pilot skills... I'd rather have mech specific tweaks, so some mechs could become incredibly fast or have better sensors and others would turn faster or cool better. However PGI has shown little interest in that for a long time.

Which is too bad; the ideas in Dev Blog 4: Role Warfare were what sold me (and, as I understand, many of the other Founders as well) on this game and I still think they need to go back and implement those.

[WildeKarde]

From having played a locust a bit I have to agree it's really poor in the current game. We know it's the lowest of the mechs to be used but I think the point is for matchmaking a stock 1V is equal to a fully upgraded jenner.

We can see higher tonnage does not guarantee a better mech nor does matching a same tonnage mean they are equal. Tonnage limits could work but I think we need to rate mech builds (BV for the sake of simple term) as this would allow sides to be equivalent if not the same make up.

The locust will likely still be a one shot mech but won't be the equal to a bigger, better armed and armoured mech.

The pilot skills could even have something simple like higher speed tweak for a 20ton compared to a 25ton or higher

[Livewyr]

You have a good 20kph on them.. don't get into a scuffle with them. (If they chase you.. run back to your team...)

You're a scout.. not a guerrilla fighter.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Livewyr, on 11 November 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

You have a good 20kph on them.. don't get into a scuffle with them. (If they chase you.. run back to your team...)

You're a scout.. not a guerrilla fighter.

The issue players are having is the Locust isn't a fighter at all, and designed entirely around lance/team oriented play but PGI is such a merciful and benevolent company they offered the Locust to anyone willing to buy one. Forcing players to purchase one of those turds for $20 in order to unlock higher tiers of the phoenix package was percisely the reason I didn't purchase one despite how badly I'd like a gryph or wolvie.

[Joseph Mallan]

lockwoodx, on 11 November 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

The issue players are having is the Locust isn't a fighter at all, and designed entirely around lance/team oriented play but PGI is such a merciful and benevolent company they offered the Locust to anyone willing to buy one. Forcing players to purchase one of those turds for $20 in order to unlock higher tiers of the phoenix package was percisely the reason I didn't purchase one despite how badly I'd like a gryph or wolvie.

It is not a Lance friendly Mech unless we are including weight caps we on't have right now. All a Locust has ever been good for is allowing heavier allies.

[Training Instructor]

Livewyr, on 11 November 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

You have a good 20kph on them.. don't get into a scuffle with them. (If they chase you.. run back to your team...)

You're a scout.. not a guerrilla fighter.

You have to torture yourself through basics on three variants and then another 8.5k xp on the 3M after that before you're faster than Jenners who have been mastered for months.

[Peter2k]

sorry to say this, but I sold my locust and never will run any of those
too little armor, no ecm and no jump jets

I bought the package because I wanted to support PGI, but I knew the locust would be no good realy
there is no real padding on the back here, if youre good in a locust, than u would be stellar in some other light with JJ for instance, even if it ever goes beyond 200kph(which I would agree it should, to make it somewhat viable), there is no way the locust is gonna be more viable than a light JUST a bit heavier

spider is better, even commando
and those are nearly the same weight anyway
if we talk about weight limits: whenever they come, we still have to see anything planed, like actual limit, if in all matches, if matchmaker gives it up to pull in more people to fill up slots
-thats actually what happens now; match maker tries to fill classes /weights on bove teams, but if he doesnt find throws it out the window and trys to fit ELO at least
AND
I could also drop one large pulse laser on my highlander, it would loose 7t, and my lancemate could take a jenner over another light; will weight limits look into the real weight of a mech (100t Atlas, but xl engine as weight saver?, but same armor)
I dont know, it might; might not

until then; a light with ecm and JJ will of course outperform other lights; if piloted by the same skilled person

and youre 4 man locust lance is destroyed if they run into 2 or more streak taros;
or in competetive play, streak scout ,55t, fast shadowhawks with JJ

but 4 Raven 3l's might have worked against those u know

we will also see if lights have a real survival chance once hit detection/hitbox changes have been optimized
and we have regional servers (if MWO becomes big enough I guess) and everyone has Pings under 30 or something

I still see so many times a AC20/PPC (put in other direct damage weapon of youre choice in here) hit but not register, or completly opposite, fly right over the mech I was aiming at, but I scored a hit; spacemagic I guess :-)

I manage to kill Jenners reliable, running fast and jumping/flying around, commandos too, locust/ dont get me started, but spiders dammn

I also feel like I'm sort of invincible in a spider, but gotta be carefull in my Jenner for some reason, same speed, same JJ

[Deathlike]

Training Instructor, on 11 November 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

You have to torture yourself through basics on three variants and then another 8.5k xp on the 3M after that before you're faster than Jenners who have been mastered for months.

Look at it this way:

You can torture all the Locust pilots that are trying to grind out their three variants with a Commando or Spider, and you'll collect plenty of C-bills and XP for that trolling to level those three variants faster than the Locust pilots.

Win-win!

Edited by Deathlike, 11 November 2013 - 12:48 PM.