240 replies to this topic

[Minoxen]

I'd like to have #17 and #18 combined, put the torso from 18 on the legs from 17 and I couldn't be happier!

I really like 17, but I think that its simply too close to the original marauder that HG wouldn't sign off on it. #18 Has more of an independent feel, even if ya swapped the legs out.

[Cimarb]

Reno Blade, on 15 November 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Hey guys.
Thank you very much for the replies and everything is welcome and no offense taken at all, no matter what you wrote/write

Speaking of focusing on the final image, if you like to add this to the post, or replace the image, it might also help, MoonUnitBeta.

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/1612/95ox.png

Art is very subjective. I mean, people actually like Van Gogh....bleh....

The designs that have the highest artistic skill are going to instantly rise above the rest, regardless of design features and other important criteria. It is that wow factor that makes people say, "I don't like this part or that part, but it looks soooo cool so I will vote for it anyways." Then you have the very technical designs. These will get a decent amount of votes because they address the important things, such as arm/torso/leg layout, weapon placement, etc. Then you have everyone that has a great idea, but can't make it look as good on paper because they don't have a skill to translate it well.

I like your design, and as someone mentioned, it would make a great nova or similar light mech, but it is not a Marauder to me. While I am amazed by the skill of many of the submissions, with my top three being Karyudo DS, Marcobra and (of course) Shimmering Sword, none of these really hit the mark for me as a Marauder. They are too heavy looking, generally, and would be better for IIC versions, or put on weight watchers for a few months first.

My favorites are actually Bishop Steiner and (oddly) Tyberian, for two different reasons. I love Bishop Steiners' because, although it is a bit of a departure from the traditional Marauder design, I see it as the most radical design that I would still identify as one. It is just a very well done interpretation of the design features with liberal artistic license. I love Tyberian's for pretty much the same reason, even though they are diametrically different approaches to art. While it looks like a simple design easily made into a GoBot action figure or four piece Lego set, it also hits all of the design components that I feel are important to a Marauder design: chicken legs, hanging arms mounted in front of the legs (not above them) and catapult-like torso with top mounted cannon. While it is quite square compared to lore, I think it deserves note because of its simplicity that still hits the target for me.

[Reno Blade]

Cimarb, on 15 November 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

I like your design, and as someone mentioned, it would make a great nova or similar light mech, but it is not a Marauder to me. While I am amazed by the skill of many of the submissions, with my top three being Karyudo DS, Marcobra and (of course) Shimmering Sword, none of these really hit the mark for me as a Marauder. They are too heavy looking, generally, and would be better for IIC versions, or put on weight watchers for a few months first.

Thank you! I appreciate your feedback.

[Shimmering Sword]

I'd like to throw in a word of defense for all the fat mechs (yes that includes mine).
Remember that most of these illustrations are delivered without an absolute scale indicator, also remember that (regardless of what may be in some novel somewhere) that the squat marauder isn't that tall of a mech. I sense that a lot of people are seeing these pieces and visualizing them as big as an assault mech, when in reality they're just the normal squat heavy mech they intend to be.

I feel it's a little unfair to disqualify someone's entry in your mind simply because "it looks more like a II or IIC". We aren't designing a Glaug, we aren't designing a IIC either, we're designing something different and something that (preferably) has the MWO style. Bottom line, you're not going to see what you expect all the time, but that doesn't make it wrong.

Other guys might have their own defenses, as for my own design: If you look at my piece and then look at the MWO cataphract concept art, comparing their scales via the legs, the torso on my Marauder doesn't have much more volume than the cataphract does (it's longer, but less tall). Being 5 tons heavier with largely identical arms and legs, you should expect the torso to be bigger.
I wont deny my submission is fatter than I would like, but time was a limiting factor. That doesn't make a slightly spacious 75 tonner suddenly jump up to 100 tons though.

So, I'm not saying "mine is right" here, I'm just saying to cut EVERYONE some slack in this very unique competition. Don't let your idea of II and IICs disqualify entries. Instead, work with your brain a little and imagine those mechs smaller (or bigger in the case of the skinnies) than you initially interpreted.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cimarb, on 15 November 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

hanging arms mounted in front of the legs (not above them)

Man you got no idea how hard I tried to implement those, but the actual builder in me just can't do it, because of ho much I would have to back weight the chassis not to through the balance all to {Scrap}. Not to mention that having them that far forward leaves too much torso exposed and leaves even more blind spots in the fire arc.

I hate that I can't let go of engineering flaws to just go "artistic", darn it!

I agree with a lot of your critiques in general though, including that. My biggest complaint on too many of the best artistic renderings is that they DO feel too massive. The Marauder is a top end heavy, but too many designs do feel like a top end assault, with proportions closer to what I envision a Stalker having, which to me, loses the grace and aggressiveness that epitomizes the MAD to my eyes.

The Marauder to me is like the Mech equivalent of Sagat from Street Fighter


but too many remakes feel more like


still menacing, but slow and cumbersome.

[Bishop Steiner]

Shimmering Sword, on 15 November 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

I'd like to throw in a word of defense for all the fat mechs (yes that includes mine).
Remember that most of these illustrations are delivered without an absolute scale indicator, also remember that (regardless of what may be in some novel somewhere) that the squat marauder isn't that tall of a mech. I sense that a lot of people are seeing these pieces and visualizing them as big as an assault mech, when in reality they're just the normal squat heavy mech they intend to be.

I feel it's a little unfair to disqualify someone's entry in your mind simply because "it looks more like a II or IIC". We aren't designing a Glaug, we aren't designing a IIC either, we're designing something different and something that (preferably) has the MWO style. Bottom line, you're not going to see what you expect all the time, but that doesn't make it wrong.

Other guys might have their own defenses, as for my own design: If you look at my piece and then look at the MWO cataphract concept art, comparing their scales via the legs, the torso on my Marauder doesn't have much more volume than the cataphract does (it's longer, but less tall). Being 5 tons heavier with largely identical arms and legs, you should expect the torso to be bigger.
I wont deny my submission is fatter than I would like, but time was a limiting factor. That doesn't make a slightly spacious 75 tonner suddenly jump up to 100 tons though.

So, I'm not saying "mine is right" here, I'm just saying to cut EVERYONE some slack in this very unique competition. Don't let your idea of II and IICs disqualify entries. Instead, work with your brain a little and imagine those mechs smaller (or bigger in the case of the skinnies) than you initially interpreted.

Sorry Shim, got to disagree.

Why?

Because this IS a fan art competition. What people envision as a "proper" Marauder is subjective. If one feels one version is too fat for their ideal Marauder, what slack is there to cut? That is their opinion and right, just as if it were too slim, too angular, or too whatever.

Is your interpretation right or wrong? All in the eye and the imagination of the Beholder. In fairness, while I wish I had 1/10th your talent for design and art, I have always felt that as awesome as your MADs were, (this and the previous) they did feel too massive, and lacked (to my mind) the agile look that I feel the fluff describes. I don't have the finish talent of you or many others, but I do tend to be pretty dang good at scale.

Am I right? Are you right? Are we both right? Doesn't really matter, because it is subjective. So while I can understand feeling defensive (I sure do when my stuff is called out), the critique, and reasoning is absolutely fair and reasonable.

[AoFMarauder]

Bishop Steiner
I like his compromises and find his cockpit very useable.

CarrionCrows
Kept the alien-ness of the original material -and those feet!

ResidentCrow
Okay, that's one bad mech! Is it legal to have a stock mech look so mean?

Blutbad
Brings back the T-Rex in the shape.

Hammer
Somehow MW4, distinct, and practical.

Vetal
Daring leg concept!

[Kael Tropheus]

11 and 18 are excellent looking, but not for the standard 75 ton Marauder. They are far too bulky and to me would be 100 tonners. 3 and 7 are my votes, marauder-esque without being too close to the classic but not the fugly piece of {Scrap} the Pheonix TRO had. I pray they ignore that abortion of a design and use something similar to these. Its easily one of the two most iconic mechs for battletech and they had better not screw it up.

[SloCat]

Shimmering Sword, on 15 November 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Instead, work with your brain a little and imagine those mechs smaller (or bigger in the case of the skinnies) than you initially interpreted.

I also disagree. Visual weight is important. You can’t just tell folks to use their brains to see something they don’t.

A few of these clearly look like assaults. Personally, I think yours is fine, although like I said before, it could use a bit more waist. What I don’t understand is why you would get flustered. I mean, clearly yours has a lot of votes. Why say anything at all?

[Axesci]

I have liked four of the designs. I am new to the battletech universe, sadly not been much of it where I live. That will change with MWO though

I can't really say that I know that much about the lore of BT (yet). So I don't know how much my voice should count. I have tried to do a little research, but I have mostly gone by what I like, not so much what would be right in case of lore/canon.

Marcobra--I do love the feet on this mech, even though I get that it is not quite canon. Those are the reason I have this mech as my favourite though, because it is different.
ResidentCrow--I love this one too. Crazy about the arms and the protection for the cockpit.
Bishop Steiner--Cockpit seems a bit too large, but other than that a solid design.
Fherot--I like the shape and feel, but cockpit too small and hidden, feet not quite right.


Thanks to everyone for the amazing artwork. Cya in battle!

[Shimmering Sword]

The reason I posted was for the sake of possibly spurring some consideration that may not otherwise happen, not so much an attempt to directly shift opinions. Jus a simple "huh, I never thought of it that way" potential.
My entry is floating around 3rd place, and I'm happy with that (I think Marcobra takes the cake), which is why my point was for the sake of all submissions who have been acused of being 100tons, I'm hearing that opinion fly around a lot.
MWO has repeatedly shown that volume does not equal weight. We've got a massive Shadow Hawk, a small Stalker, and various other mechs who's appearance definitely doesn't match the general notion of their weight.

I just seek to attempt a little education, as a fan of battletech, of scifi, and as an artist, that an artist should be given a little more credit for their choices. At the end of the day we all are entitle to our opinions though.

[Devillin]

I liked a lot of these designs a lot, some more than others:
A couple I thought were very good designs and artwork, but looked way too much like ED-209 from Robocop (#1 from Apocalips07 and #20 from Nomorga).

#10 by Hammur was a very good design, but it was too spindly for a Marauder. Maybe if there was a lighter MAD, something in the 50 ton scout killer.

#21 by Plexi looked like an awesome design for a mech derived from the Marauder, like the Cataphract or something.

#27 by Silversword looked kind of sweet, but is the same MAD-3R that is already banned.

#30 by Tyberion is so cute. It makes me think of a Super-Deformed or Mini-Marauder. I would love to see this in one of the comedy comics.

#28 by SloCat is a really nice "early model" Marauder, like something the Star League would have used when it first came out.

#2 by Bishop Steiner is a very unique take on the concept of the Marauder.

#24 by ResidentCrow is a very scary looking design. The only problem I have with it are the handles, unless this is the Clan version (where the Elementals can hang off them). Otherwise, I have this image in my mind of BattleMasters and Atlases grabbing those handles and using your weapons against your own lance mates.

#4 by Dadrick and #17 by Karyudo are both very clean, very rugged looking designs. I love them both, especially Dadrick's since it looks like something that would look awesome in MWO.

#7 by Blutbad and #25 by Shimmering Sword are like brother designs, with Blutbad having the details that the SS is missing in going for a slick, smooth design.

But my favorite is the Marcobra (#18). That is just so fierce. It has a great blend of spindly fast walker, combined with bulky and blocky heavy armor. My only concern is, I don't think the in-game graphics could do it justice.

[ZnSeventeen]

Awesome job guys, just awesome. And just because I didn't vote for you doesn't mean I didn't love it, some just felt out of place in MWO, some were just too close to the original, and some just didn't seem like a marauder (We need those low arms to put the MAD in Madcat.)

[Fherot]

I have to defend my poor Blutbad's cockpit finally..!

I went by the fact that the original Macross 'Marauder' had just one eye/viewport which was really a sensor module in Robotech/Macross.

The qualities listed on Sarna.net:

Design Quirks

The MAD-4X Marauder variant is subject to the following Design Quirks:^[24]

• Combat Computer
  
• Cramped Cockpit
  
• Difficult to Maintain
  
• Improved Cooling Jackets (Binary Lasers)
  
• No Ejection System

And by the novels in that most mechwarriors relied on visual cameras to turn a 360 degree battlefield into a 120 degree screen around them. The Blutbad has a TIE-fighter'esque viewport and cameras/sensors along the 'mouth'.

/Selfjustification....


It's hard for me to vote, there's so many good ones. I like the criticism, but I have to say I love any positive feedback even more. As my first painting project I am really nervous about how I'll do. Motivating me to get my graphic novel back on track, have to finish pesky 90th page and figure out how to make a website...

[SloCat]

Shimmering Sword, on 15 November 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

The reason I posted was for the sake of possibly spurring some consideration that may not otherwise happen, not so much an attempt to directly shift opinions. Jus a simple "huh, I never thought of it that way" potential.
My entry is floating around 3rd place, and I'm happy with that (I think Marcobra takes the cake), which is why my point was for the sake of all submissions who have been acused of being 100tons, I'm hearing that opinion fly around a lot.
MWO has repeatedly shown that volume does not equal weight. We've got a massive Shadow Hawk, a small Stalker, and various other mechs who's appearance definitely doesn't match the general notion of their weight.

I just seek to attempt a little education, as a fan of battletech, of scifi, and as an artist, that an artist should be given a little more credit for their choices. At the end of the day we all are entitle to our opinions though.

Understood. All good points.

I'm just disappointed that I let myself down. Not a cry for sympathy, or votes at all. Just bummed that I missed the mark on my favorite chassis. Wish that I would have discovered this earlier so that I had more time, but thats just an excuse. I'm glad Baristan told me about this-- otherwise I would not been able to enter anything at all.

[Fherot]

SloCat, on 15 November 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Understood. All good points.

I'm just disappointed that I let myself down. Not a cry for sympathy, or votes at all. Just bummed that I missed the mark on my favorite chassis. Wish that I would have discovered this earlier so that I had more time, but thats just an excuse. I'm glad Baristan told me about this-- otherwise I would not been able to enter anything at all.

Same here, I found out about this on the Sunday before the deadline. Talk about a scramble. Luckily my er work has... windows of opportunity to mess around in photoshop.

[Karyudo ds]

Shimmering Sword, on 15 November 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

So, I'm not saying "mine is right" here, I'm just saying to cut EVERYONE some slack in this very unique competition. Don't let your idea of II and IICs disqualify entries. Instead, work with your brain a little and imagine those mechs smaller (or bigger in the case of the skinnies) than you initially interpreted.

Well that's the problem with something like this (as you see with every official MW:O mech). People see and judge things like size very critically with inaccurate representation or anything good to make the comparisons on. Also, it's hard not too. Beyond all the mechs in the franchise and how old it is. Then there's also that side of people judging the art but it's to be expected.

Thing about the II's and IIC's people compare to is that those would get new designs as well if anything so "what a IIC is" ends up change, but we all have things in mind for what everything should be. I just hope anyone asking what we expect to see enough of a trend here to get an idea if anything.

Bishop Steiner, on 15 November 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

Man you got no idea how hard I tried to implement those, but the actual builder in me just can't do it, because of ho much I would have to back weight the chassis not to through the balance all to {Scrap}. Not to mention that having them that far forward leaves too much torso exposed and leaves even more blind spots in the fire arc.

Yeah I sat on that one for a bit. The arms being forward sort of created a sense of motion in the design to me and were part of the look. Which was why I tried to compromise there and keep them close to the center. It's tricky, but what you get when the original design was intended for something very different.

[GalaxyBluestar]

this competition is unique, it can be voted on in many ways;

art quality: currently topping

my expectations for MWO implementation: second voting persuasion

my expectations for a marauder design: these are the swaying votes and the decider for the final 5

desgin ideas: currently not the biggest seller.

usually the one on the bottom is my first consideration i've not voted for mechs that have little imagination and/or focus to heavily on copying and pasting exsisting design, my voting priorities run from the bottom up because my interpretations is tha this is a design competition. however this is also an art and a my fav mech competition so the next vote should be really interesting...

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 15 November 2013 - 06:24 PM.

[Devillin]

SloCat, on 15 November 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Understood. All good points.

I'm just disappointed that I let myself down. Not a cry for sympathy, or votes at all. Just bummed that I missed the mark on my favorite chassis. Wish that I would have discovered this earlier so that I had more time, but thats just an excuse. I'm glad Baristan told me about this-- otherwise I would not been able to enter anything at all.

Don't feel down, man. I thought your Marauder would make an excellent Star League model. It has an early model\prototype look to it that would be perfect for that era. Even if it turned out to not be great for this game, it would be perfect as a replacement image in the Star League Sourcebook.

[ArchApollyon]

1) Bishop Steiner
2) ResidentCrow

I have always been a fan of Bishops Marauders, and I still think its the best (I actually did a solid works version of his Marauder II, though it doesn't do it complete justice). Residents is a close second, I would love if either of these came to the game, or any of these great works made it in.