587 replies to this topic

[BlackWidow]

I have been playing since the second closed beta invites. I endured the lag, the imbalance, the lack of maps and mechs. Eventually, things got better. ECM almost killed it for me (still a POS in my opinion) as did 12 mans. Who would have thought that giving us what we wanted (more mechs on the field) would actually make it worse.

Eventually though, enough of my unit stopped playing on a regular basis, that I could not bear more than a few PUGs a night.

So I took a break. I have been playing World of Warcraft again, much to my dismay. Mechwarrior:Online was the ONLY game that was able to completely break my hold on that game after playing non-stop for over eight years! And ironically it was the same game that forced me to go back to WOW.

So, now I log into MWO about once a week. I play about 10 PUGs and have an absolute blast, win or lose. Love the new Crimson Straights map. Love the Battlemaster and all the other new mechs.

But, after those 10 matches...I realize it's still just TDM with no goals, achievements or consequences for my actions outside of how much (read: how little) money I make.

I used to be VERY active on these boards. Daily reads at least, if not posts.

Now, I check in once a week for Dev posts and skulk back out.

This game has HUGE potential....and I'm seeing hardly any at all.

Kudos to PGI for trying to tackle this for us. We loves us some Battletech. But, man, they should have had Chris Roberts handle the marketing, architecture and crowd funding for this.

I realize it's hind sight, but just stop for a minute and think what this game could have been like if they had gone SINGLE PLAYER first.....and implemented multiplayer after?

You would not have had ANY of the balance issues. Any of the ELO issues. You would have kept the audience captivated for MONTHS re-playing with different mechs. All the while bringing in money, keeping interest and building aniticipation of the ONLINE portion while you fixed DX11, Cryengine bugs and built out CW and UI 2.0

They did this whole thing BACKWARDS.

Peace out.

[Tolkien]

spectralthundr, on 19 November 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Fun fact, Battletech and Mechwarrior in general have always been an extremely niche title. You're never going to pull League of Legend numbers in a battletech game. Just isn't going to happen, CW or no CW. Even if every feature people wanted in was working and balanced to perfection. The fanbase for this IP doesn't have those kinds of numbers.

I'd be very interested in seeing sales numbers of the previous Mechwarrior titles, I'd imagine part of the reason MS went the "let's sit on the IP for years route" like they did is directly related to the fact that a Mechwarrior game is never going to push 5+ million in boxes purchased.

Best I can find with 1 minute in google is this tracking site http://video-games.f...r-4-Mercenaries

It estimates units in the 1-10 million range. Back then what was a full boxed video game? 44.99? Let's be pessimists and assume it was at the absolute low end of that estimate and we'll call it $50,000,000

[Joseph Mallan]

KinLuu, on 19 November 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Its not like they retain all their paying customers.

Don't need to, just a stream of folks willing to shell out. I really need a game and not a demo anymore to want to give them more money. Right now I have reached the limit f what I will pay for as I already have concurred the game so far.

[KinLuu]

Tolkien, on 19 November 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Best I can find with 1 minute in google is this tracking site http://video-games.f...r-4-Mercenaries

It estimates units in the 1-10 million range. Back then what was a full boxed video game? 44.99? Let's be pessimists and assume it was at the absolute low end of that estimate and we'll call it $50,000,000

If it was such a success, why was the series axed?

[Tolkien]

KinLuu, on 19 November 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

If it was such a success, why was the series axed?

If it wasn't successful (past tense) how did it get to 4+an expansion?

(I know this isn't an answer, but it's also an important question)

[Roadbeer]

KinLuu, on 19 November 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

If it was such a success, why was the series axed?

Who can understand the mind of M$, that company runs on equal portions of whim and spite.

[KinLuu]

Roadbeer, on 19 November 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

Who can understand the mind of M$, that company runs on equal portions of whim and spite.

But they do know how to earn monies.

[Spheroid]

Wasn't PC gaming in decline early last decade? Combined with the dumber tastes of the console crowd that largely explains the death of mech sims and many other genres.

[Dimento Graven]

spectralthundr, on 19 November 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Fun fact, Battletech and Mechwarrior in general have always been an extremely niche title. You're never going to pull League of Legend numbers in a battletech game. Just isn't going to happen, CW or no CW. Even if every feature people wanted in was working and balanced to perfection. The fanbase for this IP doesn't have those kinds of numbers.

I'd be very interested in seeing sales numbers of the previous Mechwarrior titles, I'd imagine part of the reason MS went the "let's sit on the IP for years route" like they did is directly related to the fact that a Mechwarrior game is never going to push 5+ million in boxes purchased.

MMmm... I have to disagree. While you are correct that the BT specific universe had a limited market, the fact is that the 'big stompy robot' market is much broader, and what that broad market requires is a 'Field of Dreams' venue, build it, they will come.

Also, keep in mind that there's a broader overall market of FPS consumers that will come over and play IF you build them a game worth their time.

The potential is here. I think we've established that, aside from a 'few' nagging issues, the core of this game is fairly solid, and those 'few' nagging issues are rather common in the FPS genre (HSR/lag/ping rates, hit box location, hit detection).

What this game really lacks is significant depth.

I'd like to point out that a few years ago there was no market for "top down strategic multiplayer on-line mythical creatures battle" games either, yet LoL is a game, when you come right down to it, that has surprisingly little depth. It's got a **** ton of characters, a **** ton of {Scrap} you can buy for your characters, a **** ton of enhancements for those characters and so on.

But actual depth? The last time I was logged in you had, what? Only 4 or 5 game modes and maybe 6 maps if I remember correctly... MWO has dozens of different mechs that can be configured hundreds of thousands of different ways, 11 maps, and 2 game modes.

I think the game is sitting on a decaying precipice, if PGI can get on the ball and push it the right way, we'll have something fantastic, to potentially rival LoL. If they take to long though, the precipice decays and the game falls backwards into obscurity and eventual unplugging.

[Tolkien]

Spheroid, on 19 November 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Wasn't PC gaming in decline early last decade? Combined with the dumber tastes of the console crowd that largely explains the death of mech sims and many other genres.

Which is arguably why MWO and Star Citizen both had very positive support from the kickstarting PC gaming community. We've been starved of intelligent complex sci-fi content because depth and substance are constantly sacrificed at the altar of accessibility/'broader appeal'.

Anyone who has played Deus Ex will see what happened between numbers 1 and 2. At least human revolution brought back most of the good stuff, even if things were still slightly streamlined.

Edited by Tolkien, 19 November 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Tolkien, on 19 November 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

Which is arguably why MWO and Star Citizen both had very positive support from the kickstarting PC gaming community. We've been starved of intelligent complex sci-fi content because depth and substance are constantly sacrificed at the alter of accessibility/'broader appeal'.

Anyone who has played Deus Ex will see what happened between numbers 1 and 2. At least human revolution brought back most of the good stuff, even if things were still slightly streamlined.

THIS!!!!! +1,000

And people wonder why any thread about porting to consoles gets a max font NO from me.

[Tolkien]

Dimento Graven, on 19 November 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

...

Excellent point! That might also be why pacific rim made a few hundred million dollars in profit.... http://en.wikipedia....ific_Rim_(film)

If this game fails and the devs blame it on the lack of appeal of the mech genre, we have to be prepared to shove the severe quality issues this game has suffered from right back to the forefront, and the serially missed deadlines and dissembling from the leads.

Edited by Tolkien, 19 November 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[MEGABOT 5]

Team Deathmatch is ******* BORING. So tired of how ******* slow PGI is rolling out updates, mechs, maps and NO NEW MODES.


Seriously. We need new match types. Destroy the enemy dropship. Escort a convoy. Destroy the enemy base, and so on. We need variety! I'm so bored with team deathmatch.

[Almond Brown]

Tolkien, on 19 November 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Best I can find with 1 minute in google is this tracking site http://video-games.f...r-4-Mercenaries

It estimates units in the 1-10 million range. Back then what was a full boxed video game? 44.99? Let's be pessimists and assume it was at the absolute low end of that estimate and we'll call it $50,000,000

The actual game company, much like today in fact, would receive about $3.00 per box sold. So your 50 mill number is like... LOL!

Thus the current Dev popularity of the F2P model.

Edited by Almond Brown, 19 November 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

You think they make that much Almond?

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

You think they make that much Almond?

Was trying to be kind to the other Poster actually.

[Dimento Graven]

Almond Brown, on 19 November 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Was trying to be kind to the other Poster actually.

My understanding is different, that for boxed games the publisher received upwards of 90% of the sales, netting a profit of AT LEAST %50/box sold, but admittedly, this is dated 'single source' information...

[Scromboid]

This game needs both free and paying players to survive. 'Free' players are content for the paying players, FWIW. They are also your source of new revenue if you hook them quickly enough and get them interested.

I think Star Citizen has the Chris Roberts appeal to it, which is what is making it shine so much. PGI, being nobodies, will never get that sort of reaction and ~certainly~ not after MWO.

Focus now on repairing the relationship with your community and finding new ways to engage them should be paramount, but here we are, again, at a standstill of information with them and not being invited to help/assist or add valuable input. Why are the test servers not running 24/7 for example? Some form of sign from them letting us know where UI2.0 is on the timeline to complete as well as CW would be great as well (put that **** into MS Project and show us the graphs. It ain't hard, unless you are terrified of the results because they do not show CW complete until 2015)

The only folks that keep you in the dark about what they are selling are the folks that are scared you will figure out they are fooling you. The snake oil salesman never stayed in town for long...

[BlackWidow]

Dimento Graven, on 19 November 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

MMmm... I have to disagree. While you are correct that the BT specific universe had a limited market, the fact is that the 'big stompy robot' market is much broader, and what that broad market requires is a 'Field of Dreams' venue, build it, they will come.

Also, keep in mind that there's a broader overall market of FPS consumers that will come over and play IF you build them a game worth their time.

The potential is here. I think we've established that, aside from a 'few' nagging issues, the core of this game is fairly solid, and those 'few' nagging issues are rather common in the FPS genre (HSR/lag/ping rates, hit box location, hit detection).

What this game really lacks is significant depth.

I'd like to point out that a few years ago there was no market for "top down strategic multiplayer on-line mythical creatures battle" games either, yet LoL is a game, when you come right down to it, that has surprisingly little depth. It's got a **** ton of characters, a **** ton of {Scrap} you can buy for your characters, a **** ton of enhancements for those characters and so on.

But actual depth? The last time I was logged in you had, what? Only 4 or 5 game modes and maybe 6 maps if I remember correctly... MWO has dozens of different mechs that can be configured hundreds of thousands of different ways, 11 maps, and 2 game modes.

I think the game is sitting on a decaying precipice, if PGI can get on the ball and push it the right way, we'll have something fantastic, to potentially rival LoL. If they take to long though, the precipice decays and the game falls backwards into obscurity and eventual unplugging.

Yeah, but LOL operates under the mantra of EASY TO LEARN...DIFFICULT TO MASTER. This is the type of game play that easily sucks casual players in (and CASUAL is where the mass numbers are) and keeps them there as they incrementally try to get better.

MWO, on the other hand, is like MMORPGs prior to World of Warcraft. If you didn't already understand the basic concepts of gameplay you were hopelessly lost and gave up before you had a chance to get hooked. I loved Asheron's Call but gave up on Everquest as it took me a whole evening just to get out of the Dark Elf city! Yeah, I were a noob.

As I mentioned in my previous post, if PGI had focused on a tight single player game first, they could get the casuals in. Then, adding in multiplayer and CW would keep them coming back for more.

But that Jumpship has sailed.

[Tolkien]

Almond Brown, on 19 November 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

The actual game company, much like today in fact, would receive about $3.00 per box sold. So your 50 mill number is like... LOL!

Thus the current Dev popularity of the F2P model.

Joseph Mallan, on 19 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

You think they make that much Almond?

Almond Brown, on 19 November 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Was trying to be kind to the other Poster actually.

I have zero insight as to how many dollars a company gets for a boxed copy sold, so it could be $3 for all I know about the industry.

Back to the question of did it make money though, I have to believe it either made someone money or came dangerously close to it multiple times or they wouldn't have made MW1, MW1 SNES, Madcat3025 SNES, MW2+expansion, Mech commander, MW3, MW3 pirate's moon, MW4, MW4 black knight, Mech commander 2, and I'm sure I'm missing others.

Edit: Food for thought.
When we hear that a game, TV show, movie, album or anything else dealing with the broad entertainment industry is unprofitable, take it with a grain of salt.

How Hollywood Accounting can make a $450 million film 'unprofitable'

How can a movie that grossed $475 million on a $32 million budget not turn a profit?" read the article and find out

Edited by Tolkien, 19 November 2013 - 09:52 AM.