220 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Troutmonkey, on 18 November 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

Currently I have been struck by 5 arty strikes.
1 of them took my head to red, and I was killed by a glancing laser blow a few seconds later
1 of them killed me instantly

That makes hmm... 2/5ths which is about, 40%?

I'm not counting the few that I have managed to avoid, because the problem only happens when you actually get hit.

5 is not a good sample it takes a 25 sample minimum to even establish rudimentary control limits. Bring more results to the table.

[Vodrin Thales]

Mcgral18, on 17 November 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Are they not already linked? 10 seconds before you can fire an Arty or Air if any friendly shoots one.

If not, yes that would be a good change. I think at least 15 seconds between, though it might take some testing for a solid number for balance.

They are already linked. Dropping either means you cannot use an arty or airstrike for 10 seconds.

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

5 is not a good sample it takes a 25 sample minimum to even establish rudimentary control limits. Bring more results to the table.

I've been hit by somewhere around a dozen of these things and have yet to take a head hit. Although I was one shotted by an air strike that back cored me. This data would seem to support your statement about his sample size. And for the record, I think they are both fine now.

[Ahja]

Best way to Balance this at the moment is for players to get out of the strikes AOE. Nuff said.

[Barantor]

I've been headshot twice by artillery now. Once in a catapult when I was firing LRMs (so to keep my missiles on target, cant see smoke behind me) and another when I was the last mech alive, in a jenner, had a glowing red torso and the enemy team dropped it on their base as I was capping. In the case of the jenner it didn't kill my CT, just took out my head....

It makes me wonder if it will happen more often to mechs with more cockpit open to the sky? Might never happen to an atlas, but might kill a catapult more often with headcaps.

I would like it looked at to see if some mechs are going to be cockpitted more often.

[Deathlike]

Barantor, on 18 November 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

I've been headshot twice by artillery now. Once in a catapult when I was firing LRMs (so to keep my missiles on target, cant see smoke behind me) and another when I was the last mech alive, in a jenner, had a glowing red torso and the enemy team dropped it on their base as I was capping. In the case of the jenner it didn't kill my CT, just took out my head....

It makes me wonder if it will happen more often to mechs with more cockpit open to the sky? Might never happen to an atlas, but might kill a catapult more often with headcaps.

I would like it looked at to see if some mechs are going to be cockpitted more often.

The cockpit probably does have something to do with it, given that the projectile is dropped from "the sky".

If some people have remembered the Lurmapocalypse when the Jager debuted, LRMs had a crazy tendency to headshot Catapults, but also Jagermechs due to the position of its head. I'm not sure if the Jager's head hitbox has ever changed, but anyways some mechs with the cockpit box will probably be more affected than others, so I would not rule it out.

Max armor for the cockpit is 33 (18 external, 15 internal), so one perfect hit to the head is possible, and that actually needs to be looked at. At worse, you'd have to lower the damage as the "lazy nerf", but the head hitbox needs to be looked at the devs seriously and/or adjusted to take less damage from the weapon.

Edited by Deathlike, 18 November 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[Taemien]

Troutmonkey, on 18 November 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

I would love to see a 30 second or more shared cooldown, and the ability for headshots to be removed. Apart from that they seem fine. But when arty can do anything from around 0-10% damage or randomly insta-kill mechs it doesn't seem right at all.

EDIT: THIS IS WHY HEADSHOTS NEED TO GO



The smoke was between my legs, and not visible. As you can see I took no other damage and it was only 1:50 into a match. Not cool at all.

This was common in MechCommander (was a little more common, since arty could actually explode out a mech's back armor if placed properly. People without situational awareness should and do get wrecked. Sorry, but I don't know why you thought sitting still when 'everything is quiet' was a good idea.

[Troutmonkey]

Taemien, on 19 November 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

This was common in MechCommander (was a little more common, since arty could actually explode out a mech's back armor if placed properly. People without situational awareness should and do get wrecked. Sorry, but I don't know why you thought sitting still when 'everything is quiet' was a good idea.

I was standing behind cover while shooting mechs that were out in the open, heading to our base. None of these mechs even looked in my direction. I had been positioned there no more than 10 seconds as it was early in the round and took a minute to get there. The smoke was positioned behind me, and I couldn't see it until my head exploded and I rolled down the hill.

After commenting about the headshot another player replied and I'm pretty sure it was a spider pilot who got me. Had this been a Guass headshot I would have still been angry but would have accepted his good shot (because it requires over 15 tonnes and skill), seeing as it was arty (which has absolutely no in game draw backs) I don't think it's very well balanced.

[Monkey Lover]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

5 is not a good sample it takes a 25 sample minimum to even establish rudimentary control limits. Bring more results to the table.

I will do by best to help you with this Troutmonkey

[Joseph Mallan]

Troutmonkey, on 18 November 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

I would love to see a 30 second or more shared cooldown, and the ability for headshots to be removed. Apart from that they seem fine. But when arty can do anything from around 0-10% damage or randomly insta-kill mechs it doesn't seem right at all.

EDIT: THIS IS WHY HEADSHOTS NEED TO GO



The smoke was between my legs, and not visible. As you can see I took no other damage and it was only 1:50 into a match. Not cool at all.

You wanna play a fighting game, but you don't want to accept the consequences! That makes no sense to me.

Quote

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevent him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. In Street Fighter, for example, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations "cheap." So-called "cheapness" is truly the mantra of the scrub.

I don't get this line of thinking. Never have.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 November 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Wait, airstrikes are killing people now? Couldn't you just, I don't know...move out of the way???

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcchuggernaut, on 20 November 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

Wait, airstrikes are killing people now? Couldn't you just, I don't know...move out of the way???

It takes to much effort to move away from the smoke.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 November 2013 - 10:11 AM, said:

It takes to much effort to move away from the smoke.

Ahaha! I just tried one for the first time ever and WRECKED this Catapult that was sitting back using lurms when I put it right behind him. Maybe there is something to this artillery strike thing after all...I shall experiment further now.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 20 November 2013 - 10:33 AM.

[Taemien]

Troutmonkey, on 19 November 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

I was standing behind cover while shooting mechs that were out in the open, heading to our base. None of these mechs even looked in my direction. I had been positioned there no more than 10 seconds as it was early in the round and took a minute to get there. The smoke was positioned behind me, and I couldn't see it until my head exploded and I rolled down the hill.

After commenting about the headshot another player replied and I'm pretty sure it was a spider pilot who got me. Had this been a Guass headshot I would have still been angry but would have accepted his good shot (because it requires over 15 tonnes and skill), seeing as it was arty (which has absolutely no in game draw backs) I don't think it's very well balanced.

Yeah but you were standing still. You're not going to be able to get around that fact. Same thing happened in MechCommander. Someone would be controlling their scouts, looking for their enemy. I'd engage their scout with my own, and they'd be focused on that little battle, while I dropped Arty on their main lance standing in a base. Drop 2 of their mechs, and severly damage the other two. Thats when I'd move in and mop them up. Usually they left the game by that point and call me names. But they'd still have to report the win on the league database as going to me.

You got nailed by tactics used 2 decades ago. Need to adapt, its not too late for that.

[anonymous161]

basically it's an answer for those pesky players that just camps in one spot and snipes at your team.

[xMEPHISTOx]

While airstrikes/artillery can be annoying they are certainly not problematic imo. I have been hit for minimal damage on many occasions but for the most part I see smoke or a team mate warns me of the smoke and I move away. Never have I been one shot killed by an artillery or airstrike. If it were to happen I would no doubt be aggravated but after that I would accept that it was my own fault for not having moved out of the way.
Should their damage be reduced or aoe smaller? No to both imo. Every time I have been hit by either arty or airstrike the damage is very minimal. The only time it is threatening is when in organized 12 man drops where teams are calling down multiple arty/airstrikes simultaneously...now that can hurt. But I don't blame the item/mechanic in that situation, its just good team play on the opponents part.

[Sug]

I really haven't seen them in games except in the matches I played on a brand new account. In those it seemed like everyone had them.

[James Montana]

That artillery smoke needs to go... ugh. Anyway, I like where they are going with arty, though vast dynamic improvements and effects are still needed (different types, different effects dependent upon environment, etc.). I think an arty round crashing through a cockpit is reasonable. I have been on the recieving end of many, many indirect fire attacks in an armored vehicle, and the danger of being 'crited' was ever present in my mind. So, eh. Keep the head shot possibility, as long as it's random. On a similar note: Where the hell is the Long Tom and Arrow IV?

[Mcchuggernaut]

James Montana, on 20 November 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

On a similar note: Where the hell is the Long Tom and Arrow IV?

Where, indeed?

[Taemien]

James Montana, on 20 November 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

That artillery smoke needs to go... ugh. Anyway, I like where they are going with arty, though vast dynamic improvements and effects are still needed (different types, different effects dependent upon environment, etc.). I think an arty round crashing through a cockpit is reasonable. I have been on the recieving end of many, many indirect fire attacks in an armored vehicle, and the danger of being 'crited' was ever present in my mind. So, eh. Keep the head shot possibility, as long as it's random. On a similar note: Where the hell is the Long Tom and Arrow IV?

I dunno if the smoke needs to go or not. I kinda like it because it lets me know when a friendly just dropped one. Don't want to get friendly fired by one of those. But the smoke is a helluva lot less noticable than the MechCommander bright big Orange rings.

Its pretty easy to distract someone enough so they don't notice the smoke. Just look at the screenie posted above lol.

[Vodrin Thales]

Taemien, on 19 November 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

This was common in MechCommander (was a little more common, since arty could actually explode out a mech's back armor if placed properly. People without situational awareness should and do get wrecked. Sorry, but I don't know why you thought sitting still when 'everything is quiet' was a good idea.

That's the real take home. Assume an enemy is going to drop arty on you if you sit still and act accordingly.