67 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Saxie, on 19 November 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

So your solution is to just ban the tournaments?

I don't believe that is what I said. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. The solution is to play the game. It will undoubtedly take a little longer to get the required drops in, but that's a small price to pay for the consideration given to the other side. Obviously the dearth of 12-mans is a little over exaggerated or there wouldn't be a need for the op.

[ApolloKaras]

Heffay, on 19 November 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

The premise that PGI is unfairly picking on the leagues is ridiculous, and K-town is actually better than this thread deserves.

If you fail a sync drop, play it out with the other team. Guess what; the other 12 man you were trying to sync drop ALSO got another match to play. All you're doing is screwing over 24 other people who just want to do some 12 mans.

It also says a bit about the 12 man queues if sync drops aren't a reliable way to face your opponent. Guess the 12 man queues aren't as dead as some people would like you to think!

Who is saying that the Temps are doing sync drops lol.

[Heffay]

Saxie, on 19 November 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Who is saying that the Temps are doing sync drops lol.

I don't know. Who is saying that?

[BlackDrakon]

Great job moderator, nice way to threat the leader of a group of 300+ MERCS. Now I see how the ball rolls here.....

[Roadbeer]

Lulz,

Your "illustrious"

leader advocated

a violation of the

ToS/CoC.

Derp.

Not to mention

there isn't a single

provable fact in

his rant.

It's all "My friends,

cousin, sister said"

Edited by Roadbeer, 20 November 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Thumper3]

Randalf Yorgen, on 19 November 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

It is you who don't understand a thing, I know the 12 man situation just fine but what you are suffering now isn't just something that affects you little 12 mans, it affects the whole game and it's time for you to stick your head up out of the sand and joint he rest of us or just quit the game because we don't have time for your tantrums.

Actually, we are not really suffering at all....we don't sync drop. Sure, the harassment we get for simply playing the game and being in the que and then being matched up with those trying to sync drop is a bit annoying. But we're tough, we can take some verbal call outs both for things we do as well as what we don't do.

I'm not sure you understand what "elitist" means.....since the purpose of this thread was to help others who are feeling the crunch and getting frustrated. Elitist would be more like telling everyone to eat cake and suck it up, your way or the highway...........yeah.......that would be a classic elitist response.

[RG Notch]

Thumper3, on 20 November 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Actually, we are not really suffering at all....we don't sync drop. Sure, the harassment we get for simply playing the game and being in the que and then being matched up with those trying to sync drop is a bit annoying. But we're tough, we can take some verbal call outs both for things we do as well as what we don't do.

I'm not sure you understand what "elitist" means.....since the purpose of this thread was to help others who are feeling the crunch and getting frustrated. Elitist would be more like telling everyone to eat cake and suck it up, your way or the highway...........yeah.......that would be a classic elitist response.

And by helping you mean ruining games for people and basically throwing a tantrum until you get you way? I don't think it's elitist at all, just selfish and arrogant. You can help by not dropping in the 12 man queue in order to help out. Why not do your part and stop ruining these folks chance to have the match ups they want? You should be spending that time harassing the devs into doing something.
So nope not elitist, just selfish and childish. So basically this thread is right where it belongs.

[Marlowe Lecter]

Roadbeer, on 19 November 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

So much douche

in so few posts.

I wouldn't call your 3895+ posts "so few"

[Roadbeer]

Marlowe Lecter, on 20 November 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

I wouldn't call your 3895+ posts "so few"

I see what

you did there.

[Farix]

PGI set some very specific rules on how players are to behave themselves in the game and on the forums. Among those rules is that players cannot, under any circumstances, willfully self-destruct. team killing, and/or disconnecting from the match. Any violations of these rules can result in a ban. And frankly, you should be glad that PGI simply let those teams off with just a warning.

League and tournament players are no more "special" than other players. They have the follow the exact same conduct rules the rest of us are required to follow. And while the lack of private matches does make the logistics of a tournament more difficult, it is never an excuse for willfully break the conduct rules established by PGI. You can either conduct the tournaments within PGI's rules or accept the consequences of breaking those rules.

[Heffay]

BlackDrakon, on 20 November 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Great job moderator, nice way to threat the leader of a group of 300+ MERCS. Now I see how the ball rolls here.....

Hi PGI,

I run a large merc corp with hundreds of pilots. Why can't I get a special exemption of the rules? I can see how they could apply to small groups of 50-100, but 300? We're big! We deserve to not be treated like everyone else!!

[Demosthones]

Heffay, on 20 November 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Hi PGI,

I run a large merc corp with hundreds of pilots. Why can't I get a special exemption of the rules? I can see how they could apply to small groups of 50-100, but 300? We're big! We deserve to not be treated like everyone else!!

Hmm really? Do you not read the whole thing before you start posting? The Templars do not participate in tourneys. Any day of the week we have 3-5 12mans dropping. We make up a huge portion of that 12man queue. Since open Beta these tourneys have been going on and people have been suiciding when they miss their synch. Now PGI has decided to enforce a rule they were not enforcing in the 12man queue for the past year. Why punish these tourney teams now? It is PGIs fault for not implementing private lobbies or CW not these tourney teams that are just trying to come up with reasons to keep playing the game.

[RG Notch]

Demosthones, on 20 November 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Hmm really? Do you not read the whole thing before you start posting? The Templars do not participate in tourneys. Any day of the week we have 3-5 12mans dropping. We make up a huge portion of that 12man queue. Since open Beta these tourneys have been going on and people have been suiciding when they miss their synch. Now PGI has decided to enforce a rule they were not enforcing in the 12man queue for the past year. Why punish these tourney teams now? It is PGIs fault for not implementing private lobbies or CW not these tourney teams that are just trying to come up with reasons to keep playing the game.

So again, just quit playing in the 12 man queue and ruining it for these folks. You're a part of the problem. Why not be part of the solution and stop running 12 mans?It seems like its your fault as much as PGIs. If you want to help out that's where you can start.

[Egomane]

Just because they didn't enforce them before, didn't mean they'd never enforce them. The rule was there for all to see. Ignoring it, denying another team the match it dropped for (or two if the planned sync-partner is doing the same) is clearly stated as griefing for a year now.

"But dear judge, I've come away with robbery till today, why punish me now?"

[Ehecatl]

I do understand the "just play the game" argument, but remember what Bandit said in the OP: facing tourney teams doing a half-arsed job of the match because they're in a hurry to die and move along is hardly my idea of a satisfying game. It's just suiciding with a dash of stupidity. Maybe some people get their kicks from easy wins – who am I to judge? – but I also know plenty who feel the best games are the ones where you actually have to put lots of effort in for your victory.

Bandit presented an opinion and a plea based on his (and his unit's) experiences. The replies so far have been surprisingly combative – on both sides of the discussion. Simmer down, Temps, or I'll sic Ninjaphobos on you!

(And if a single word was the reason for the jettison, couldn't the thread simply move back with some editing? Getting hung up on the word "harass" is just silly; raising awareness on the forums has always been the primary channel of direct feedback to the devs.)

Edited by Ehecatl, 20 November 2013 - 05:29 PM.

[RG Notch]

I know this idea might sound crazy, so bear with me. What if you just play out your match and since the other team also missed, they play out the match and you try to synch again after. Then everyone at least gets a good match, or is the tourney more important than 24 other people having a good match? If so then I think PGI is right to ban folks that inconsiderate.
Like I said, playing out the match as normal is really asking alot and also such a terrible chore. What so ever was I thinking.

[BlackDrakon]

RG Notch, on 20 November 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

I know this idea might sound crazy, so bear with me. What if you just play out your match and since the other team also missed, they play out the match and you try to synch again after. Then everyone at least gets a good match, or is the tourney more important than 24 other people having a good match? If so then I think PGI is right to ban folks that inconsiderate.
Like I said, playing out the match as normal is really asking alot and also such a terrible chore. What so ever was I thinking.

We do not sync drop. We are no part of this leagues or tournaments.

[Heffay]

Demosthones, on 20 November 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

It is PGIs fault for not implementing private lobbies or CW not these tourney teams that are just trying to come up with reasons to keep playing the game.

It is not PGIs fault that certain groups of people choose to break the rules.

[Farix]

Demosthones, on 20 November 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Since open Beta these tourneys have been going on and people have been suiciding when they miss their synch. Now PGI has decided to enforce a rule they were not enforcing in the 12man queue for the past year. Why punish these tourney teams now?

Because at some point, PGI needs to enforce its rules fairly on all players. If they don't, what is the point of having those rules in the first place? And if not now, when?

Demosthones, on 20 November 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

It is PGIs fault for not implementing private lobbies or CW not these tourney teams that are just trying to come up with reasons to keep playing the game.

Private matches should come with UI 2.0 (hopefully). Until then, you have to play within the structure PGI has created.

And finally, if the Templar players aren't participating in the tournaments, why are you complaining? The Templars are the only ones making the enforcement of the conduct rules into an issue. Why are the Templar's speaking on behalf of the tournament organizers and participants? The fact that the tournament organizers and participants haven't said anything about PGI's renewed enforcement of the rules means that they understand PGI's position and are at least willing to work within the framework that already exist instead of asking for "special privileges".

[Egomane]

Ehecatl, on 20 November 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

(And if a single word was the reason for the jettison, couldn't the thread simply move back with some editing? Getting hung up on the word "harass" is just silly; raising awareness on the forums has always been the primary channel of direct feedback to the devs.)

That's not the sole reason this thread has been send here.

The OP is also criticizing that PGI is actually enforcing the rules, which are as much a part of the game as the game itself. You can't have one without the other. This specific rule is available in written form since November 29, 2012.

The tournament players, on whose behalf the post was made (yes, even if the templars themself do not particiapte, you are taking sides here (why aren't the actual tournament players complaining?)), who deny other 12-man teams the joy of a battle, because they believe their tournament somehow to be more important than rules or other players. They found themself a match and the other side is willing to give them a good time.

Lets take a real life example:
What do you believe would happen to a professional sports team if they don't show up to a scheduled game, because they decide they have something better to do. Or if they do show up, only to leave the field the moment the referee started the match. Do you believe they would just get a loss accounted, or would there be a sanction for them afterwards? I'm pretty sure that they would be fined and possibly even excluded from future events.

In MWO the Matchmaker is the official scheduler for all matches and IGP and PGI are the officials who make and enforce the rules. Player created leagues, while a welcome sight to the game, are not free to ignore the officials, if they want to use assets provided to them by the game. They can work within the rules and with the scheduler to create their own sub-system, but they will always be a part of the whole game and have to adapt to incorporate the default rules into their own creation or face punishment if they do not.