24 replies to this topic

[Felbombling]

Paul, are you going to add a critical hit slot and an extra ton to the new artemis launchers to get them in line with how artemis IV works in classic Battletech, or it is still going to be a simple adjustment based only on price?

[FupDup]

Artemis currently adds +1 slot and +1 ton to SRMs and LRMs, so why would this upcoming change remove that?

[101011]

FupDup is correct, the extra ton/crit is already in-game.

[Lyoto Machida]

What exactly is the change that is going to happen?

[FupDup]

Lyoto Machida, on 19 November 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

What exactly is the change that is going to happen?

http://mwomercs.com/...ork-to-artemis/

[Vercinaigh]

FupDup, on 19 November 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Artemis currently adds +1 slot and +1 ton to SRMs and LRMs, so why would this upcoming change remove that?

Because IIFC, that how it actually works is 1ton/crit per mech component that the launcher(S) are stored in, not per launcher. I could be wrong, lore guru's have fun with that, but that's my recollection.

[Lucian Nostra]

Vercinaigh, on 19 November 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

Because IIFC, that how it actually works is 1ton/crit per mech component that the launcher(S) are stored in, not per launcher. I could be wrong, lore guru's have fun with that, but that's my recollection.

It's a by launcher addition, it's adding a tracking system to the launcher hence the ton/slot. It doesn't lump 3 launchers into 1 artemis system if it's in a torso slot

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 19 November 2013 - 07:51 PM.

[Vercinaigh]

Lucian Nostra, on 19 November 2013 - 07:50 PM, said:

It's a by launcher addition, it's adding a tracking system to the launcher hence the ton/slot. It doesn't lump 3 launchers into 1 artemis system if it's in a torso slot

While I believe you, that pic tells me literally nothing and could have been omitted.

Edited by Vercinaigh, 19 November 2013 - 07:58 PM.

[Felbombling]

FupDup, on 19 November 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Artemis currently adds +1 slot and +1 ton to SRMs and LRMs, so why would this upcoming change remove that?

I was asking based on the transition for existing launchers in the inventory. It seems to me that they are rolling it all into one 'unit', based on the write up, so I was just trying to clarify if the launchers were going to be simplified to represent the artemis, or if the artemis was automatically going to add itself during the design process.

[Monky]

Effectively the only change that you will notice is there are now Artemis launchers and normal launchers available in the store/inventory.

[Sephlock]

I am intensely curious as to why this needed to be done.

It smacks of "rearranging the deck chairs", IMHO...

[mike29tw]

Sephlock, on 19 November 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

I am intensely curious as to why this needed to be done.

It smacks of "rearranging the deck chairs", IMHO...

Same here. There are far more pressing concerns that need their attention IMO.

Btw I'm don't have Artemis on any of my mech. Is this going to add more C-bill sink?

[Deathlike]

mike29tw, on 19 November 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

Same here. There are far more pressing concerns that need their attention IMO.

Btw I'm don't have Artemis on any of my mech. Is this going to add more C-bill sink?

In theory, yes.

Think of it this way.

You can't fit Artemis on the Shadow Hawk's head hardpoint. So it "eliminates" the missile slot altogether unless you use Streaks. If Paul's plan is implemented, you can have Artemis and non-Artemis weapons in use at the same time with the launchers you would prefer to use on whichever LRM/SRM you'd like, w/o making ALL of them Artemis enabled.


Unfortunately, it's just another C-bill sink, since all LRM/SRM launchers currently are considered Artemis on or off, depending if the current mech that has it added in. You have the "same" # of Artemis launchers for SRM+LRMs are you do with non-SRM+non-LRMs by design.

What Paul is trying to do is "sell you" another set of launchers which is Artemis enabled... which is a greater c-bill sink. The prices for the Artemis launcher is always current price (LRM/SRM) launcher + 100k C-bills.

Expect more C-bill sinks (especially if you are running heavy on Artemis). It "may" make financial sense to get the Artemis upgrade in advance before Paul's change.

For instance, the 6 LRM5 Catapult A1 boat:

Flat 750,000 C-bills + regular cost of LRM5 (6 * 50,000) = 1,050,000m C-Bills

New math:

250,000 C-bills + Artemis+LRM5 cost (6 * 150,000) = 1,150,000 C-Bills

Difference of 100k C-bills increase.

Here's another classic example:

2 LRM20 + 2 LRM5 with Artemis

Flat 750,000 + regular cost of LRM20 (2 * 500,000) + regular cost of LRM5 (2 * 50,000) = 1,875,000

New math:

Flat 250,000 + Artemis+LRM20 cost (2 * 600,000) + Artemis+LRM5 cost(2 * 150,000) = 1,750,000

You will "save" 125,000 with the new system.

HOWEVER, if you keep buying Artemis and not putting some back in the inventory, the costs add up more with the new system. The "old system" considers LRM/SRMs as "the same thing", so you don't really buy more unless you use up more. The only penalty is the initial cost to move to Artemis. The "new system" considers LRM+Artemis differently from LRM-Artemis, and you'll end up paying a lot more in Artemis as more mech designs need them. The penalty is where you keep buying Artemis and not having enough of an internal supply. It's kinda like paying double the costs....

I hope that clears this matter up.

Edit: Moved stuff around and crossed out stuff and added real math

Edited by Deathlike, 19 November 2013 - 11:41 PM.

[BUDFORCE]

Sephlock, on 19 November 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

I am intensely curious as to why this needed to be done.

It smacks of "rearranging the deck chairs", IMHO...

I couldn't agree more.

And while they fiddle around with trivial things like that, that really make no real difference to the end users experience what so ever, they are further delaying real content additions.

[627]

Deathlike, on 19 November 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

In theory, yes.

Think of it this way.

You can't fit Artemis on the Shadow Hawk's head hardpoint. So it "eliminates" the missile slot altogether unless you use Streaks. If Paul's plan is implemented, you can have Artemis and non-Artemis weapons in use at the same time with the launchers you would prefer to use on whichever LRM/SRM you'd like, w/o making ALL of them Artemis enabled.


Unfortunately, it's just another C-bill sink, since all LRM/SRM launchers currently are considered Artemis on or off, depending if the current mech that has it added in. You have the "same" # of Artemis launchers for SRM+LRMs are you do with non-SRM+non-LRMs by design.

What Paul is trying to do is "sell you" another set of launchers which is Artemis enabled... which is a greater c-bill sink. The prices for the Artemis launcher is always current price (LRM/SRM) launcher + 100k C-bills.

Expect more C-bill sinks (especially if you are running heavy on Artemis). It "may" make financial sense to get the Artemis upgrade in advance before Paul's change.

For instance, the 6 LRM5 Catapult A1 boat:

Flat 750,000 C-bills + regular cost of LRM5 (6 * 50,000) = 1,050,000m C-Bills

New math:

250,000 C-bills + Artemis+LRM5 cost (6 * 150,000) = 1,150,000 C-Bills

Difference of 100k C-bills increase.

Here's another classic example:

2 LRM20 + 2 LRM5 with Artemis

Flat 750,000 + regular cost of LRM20 (2 * 500,000) + regular cost of LRM5 (2 * 50,000) = 1,875,000

New math:

Flat 250,000 + Artemis+LRM20 cost (2 * 600,000) + Artemis+LRM5 cost(2 * 150,000) = 1,750,000

You will "save" 125,000 with the new system.

HOWEVER, if you keep buying Artemis and not putting some back in the inventory, the costs add up more with the new system. The "old system" considers LRM/SRMs as "the same thing", so you don't really buy more unless you use up more. The only penalty is the initial cost. The "new system" considers LRM+Artemis differently from LRM-Artemis, and you'll end up paying a lot more in Artemis as more mech designs need them. It's kinda like paying double the costs....

I hope that clears this matter up.

Edit: Moved stuff around and crossed out stuff and added real math

This s wrong, you can't mix artemis and non-artemis weapons. Only exceptions are streaks.

Think DHS - it will be the same like that, you have SHS in your inventory and seperate DHS. Buy the upgrade and equip DHS, don't and use SHS.

This will be the same for LRMs. Buy the (now cheaper) upgrade and equip A-LRMs, don't do it and equip normal LRMs. Both will have a sperate stock as different items.


ProTip:
Before the patch add alll spare LRM/SRM to Artemis mechs, after the patch these will be converted to A-LRM/A-SRM and will be worth more.

Drop the engines and everything if needed to fit more LRMs the mech don't have to be functional, only the missiles have to be mounted.

Edited by 627, 19 November 2013 - 11:45 PM.

[Deathlike]

627, on 19 November 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

This s wrong, you can't mix artemis and non-artemis weapons. Only exceptions are streaks.

I crossed it out for good reason. I was kinda confused.

This is a different kind of C-bill sink... and a very bad one at that.

[627]

Deathlike, on 19 November 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

Edit: Moved stuff around and crossed out stuff and added real math

Lol and I just wondered what happened to my quote from your post

[Victor Morson]

More pressing stuff, hogwash!

Artemis clearly is the priority to re-price. Narc beacons, command consoles, two skills in the pilot tree that don't do anything at all... none of that stuff is pressing. Clearly, Artemis pricing is what's important!

[Deathlike]

627, on 19 November 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

Lol and I just wondered what happened to my quote from your post

Well, it boggles my mind that Paul is doing this in the first place. If you want to redo missiles, fix NARC first.

[627]

And Narc would be so easy to fix... all this fear to test some numbers up and down... there's always only the big buff or big nerf, never baby steps...