33 replies to this topic

[Mcchuggernaut]

Months back, when there were more serious problems with hit detection, HSR, what have you, I had a much harder time hitting lights. Things (at least for me) have drastically changed. The Spider is still the only mech I can't consistently nail with my weapons, and even it seems to be easier to damage than it was. It's hittable now instead of the bogeyman and bane of all big mechs that it used to be. This has caused me to see the following things:

Light swarms aren't nearly as dangerous as they once were, and teams with a high number of light mechs are starting to lose more frequently and much worse than they ever did in recent times. I used to see a lot of lights on my team and think "sweet, we will probably win this match!". Now, I see over a lance of lights on my side, and it's "{Scrap}, we are hugely out-weighed. We are about to get stomped.".

Anyone else noticing this? You light pilots out there feel like you are getting killed more easily? I just wondered if everyone is noticing this, or if it's just me. Thoughts, community?

[Lucian Nostra]

uhm honestly that should be about how it goes? honestly I enjoy my lights to a degree but it is silly how easily one can run around entire teams and be ok. lights are fine but high numbers of them shouldnt be a boon.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Lucian Nostra, on 21 November 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

uhm honestly that should be about how it goes? honestly I enjoy my lights to a degree but it is silly how easily one can run around entire teams and be ok. lights are fine but high numbers of them shouldnt be a boon.

Yeah, I like the way things are now, but people are still piloting them like they did when you COULD run through a whole enemy team and survive. They just get wasted now. You would think they would change their tactics...

[-Muta-]

People get better with much practice, plus now neraly everyone carries streaks+BAP

[Troutmonkey]

Just today my team got stomped by a 7 man light swarm on Terra Therma.
As we conga lined up towards kappa, the lights swarmed in and picked off the rear units one by one, I didn't even manage to damage any of them in my Streak equiped ShadowHawk because they had Raven 3L's too.

After about 7 of our team managed to group and turn against them, they scattered to the winds and proceeded to cap everything.

Light swarms are pretty scary, as are Assault Blobs. You never really hear about people cowering in fear over some Medium group ripping through anything. Though one game I played was like 8v8 lights, which was crazy fun. Should be a game mode.

Now I'm just rambling....

Edited by Troutmonkey, 21 November 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Troutmonkey, on 21 November 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Light swarms are pretty scary, as are Assault Blobs. You never really hear about people cowering in fear over some Medium group ripping through anything. Though one game I played was like 8v8 lights, which was crazy fun. Should be a game mode.

I pal around in a 4-person group, and we occasionally run spec'ed out Raven 3Ls. We essentially call those matches Mechwarrior: Quake. And they are damn fun.

I still sorta-kinda want a "Spider mechs with no armor and 1 PPC only" game mode. I think that's about as close to Quake/UT as this game could come, and it would be frantic.

[Nehkrosis]

Played an 8 man Medium swarm before(pre-12v12), and they are extremely devastating.

High speed, and decent damage.

[Alistair Winter]

Back in the day, there were a lot more 4-man premades with Ravens, because the Ravens were awesome at one point. Today, it seems that most 4-man premades go with Highlanders and Atlai, or just a random combination of hero mechs to farm C-bills. And a lance of Puggers in Ravens were still a big deal, whereas today light mechs aren't a huge problem unless they're part of a premade lance.

I'm still more scared of an organized Jenner lance than anything else though. At least I can outrun Highlanders.

[FerretGR]

Troutmonkey, on 21 November 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

Light swarms are pretty scary, as are Assault Blobs. You never really hear about people cowering in fear over some Medium group ripping through anything. Though one game I played was like 8v8 lights, which was crazy fun. Should be a game mode.

Dedicated foursomes of anything working together can "rip through anything". I've taken out HBK 4-somes and they were scary. Mixed cent, SHD, and HBK 4-somes or groups are certainly effective. And the same goes for the heavy class... I don't think anyone would balk at a 4 Jager drop.

[Troutmonkey]

Alistair Winter, on 21 November 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Back in the day, there were a lot more 4-man premades with Ravens, because the Ravens were awesome at one point. Today, it seems that most 4-man premades go with Highlanders and Atlai, or just a random combination of hero mechs to farm C-bills. And a lance of Puggers in Ravens were still a big deal, whereas today light mechs aren't a huge problem unless they're part of a premade lance.

I'm still more scared of an organized Jenner lance than anything else though. At least I can outrun Highlanders.

I can still do some real damage in my Jenner solo, but it takes a lot of nerves and reflexes to dodge all that AC fire. New hitbox fix for the Jenner could help a lot

[Sandpit]

There will constantly be new trends as things get adjusted.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

The shift you describe is one I predicted many times over the last half year or so, namely that players who previously enjoyed a malfunctioning hit-detection system and toted themselves good players are now realizing that *shocker* running in circles or directly through the opposing team gets them lots of holes, and not much to show for it. (I'm looking at you, 3ML 2SSRM2 3Ls)

Lights are still equally useful in this version of the game, but now they genuinely require skill and planning to be implemented correctly. Being small is a boon, but it isn't enough to keep you alive if you can't be bothered to make effort.

The proof to this lies in the few remaining players who can and do actually make ample and successful use of lights, even ones such as the LCT-3S and 3M, or non-5D spider variants. Capable commando players have also taken to the field.

The problem is that now, too many players who frankly have no business touching a light at their current level of skill are being matched against a meta that focuses far too heavily on using the biggest guns and highest tonnage. (A meta that needs to be reeled in with per-lance tonnage limits quickly, but will probably have to wait for UI 2.0)

This only further obviates the need for more restrictions as to which mechs are matched against which others. I believe a limit of a 5-ton difference is necessary. IE locusts would only be matched against other locusts, commandos and fleas. Jenners and Ravens could only be matched against themselves, cicadas or spiders, and spiders would fall into a middle ground. I need not explain how much this would alleviate the issues between mechs of even higher weight-tiers, especially for mechs like the awesome. (The atlas would be the exception, of course, being a 100t mech with only highlanders to match, for now)

You can complain all you want about matches taking longer, but would you rather wait a minute or two for a game that is actually well-balanced and enjoyable, or fifteen seconds for a one-sided weight-measuring contest? This is Mech-Warrior, not ******* Call-of-Duty.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 21 November 2013 - 11:51 AM.

[Ngamok]

Nehkrosis, on 21 November 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Played an 8 man Medium swarm before(pre-12v12), and they are extremely devastating.

High speed, and decent damage.

Yea, I remember doing 8 mans and there was a team running pretty much 8 Centurions I believe. Died

FerretGR, on 21 November 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

... I don't think anyone would balk at a 4 Jager drop.

Did somebody say Jagers?

http://cloud-2.steam...3CFED4CCFD9217/

[SniperCon]

Lights are not entitled to being hard to hit. As a light pilot if something bigger is looking at me, it's because I made a mistake. Lights need to live on the edge of battle, taking shots at distracted enemies. Lights should not be the distraction!!!

[Eleshod]

Soon as my Raven's overly large leg hitboxes are fixed ill be back in, supporting my team, but in the ballistic meta, as it sits, in a light you either hide or get crushed.

[Troutmonkey]

SniperCon, on 21 November 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Lights are not entitled to being hard to hit. As a light pilot if something bigger is looking at me, it's because I made a mistake. Lights need to live on the edge of battle, taking shots at distracted enemies. Lights should not be the distraction!!!

Small and fast = Hard to hit. I think Lights are entitled to that. They're also entitled to die if they screw up and stop moving or if they run in a straight line at the enemy. Hit and Run!

[FerretGR]

SniperCon, on 21 November 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

Lights are not entitled to being hard to hit. As a light pilot if something bigger is looking at me, it's because I made a mistake. Lights need to live on the edge of battle, taking shots at distracted enemies. Lights should not be the distraction!!!

I'm gonna be that guy and bring up TT. I used to LOVE Spiders because I could do exactly what you're suggesting... jump around in the middle of the enemy forces, distracting the {Scrap} out of them until I get into range with the rest of my mechs. They were certainly difficult to hit in TT, even up close, when they were jumping 8 or 9 hexes and landing behind cover. Another instance of the realism of MWO Spiders: I recently played a game where my wife had me down to a single Spider who lasted for about 10 rounds, just jumping and taking potshots: I felt like I was playing MWO

[SniperCon]

Troutmonkey, on 21 November 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

Small and fast = Hard to hit. I think Lights are entitled to that. They're also entitled to die if they screw up and stop moving or if they run in a straight line at the enemy. Hit and Run!

We're talking about 30 ton battlemechs not GI Joe power suits. Small (and light for that matter) is a stretch.

Fast = quickly take cover before the Victor turns around.

[Troutmonkey]

SniperCon, on 21 November 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

We're talking about 30 ton battlemechs not GI Joe power suits. Small (and light for that matter) is a stretch.

Fast = quickly take cover before the Victor turns around.

Relatively speaking lights are much smaller and thus much harder to hit than Assaults, especially if you are in said Assault and your torso twist isn't high enough to keep up with that spider biting your ankles. The main reason lights are harder to pilot now is because in 12v12 it's harder to catch out mechs running around on thier own.

[Mcchuggernaut]

A lot of valid points. My question then is: Is gameplay fine how it is (read: properly balanced) or are there some tweaks that anyone can think of that wouldn't give too much advantage to one class or another, and would improve gameplay for everyone? What I mean is: reward good play and practiced skill, and add depth and layers to the game. Lets hear em'!