17 replies to this topic

[INKBALL]

Hi guys,

I know, I cant put a patent pending on it, this build must have, in the past, kicked some butts. I'm asking cause grinding C-bill take years (note that I'm in MWO since the start of the month or around).

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b6efb431c8a73e

SO, is that mech viable ? FF-armor, Endo-structure, STD250 engine, 4x AC5 and, thats where the shoe pinches, 5packs of bullets.

I think 150(bullets) isnt enough, but it's still a 750 max dmg, and a real +/-425 if i can hit on 55% and survive long enough to shoot em all.

What do you guys think?

[Mahws]

An XL255 minus the FF will give you 240 rounds (48 shots up from 30) and two medium lasers as backup (with a little shaved off the legs). You'll die sooner every few matches, but probably far less often than you'd run out of ammo.

An XL255 is a good purchase, lightest full heatsink engine, so you'd get a lot of good re-use out of it in your other mechs as well.

[MalodorousMonkey]

I do the quad-AC5 build in the JM6-S, personally. Here's the build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...da697d121f87b93

Haven't booted the client to check to see if this is exactly the way I did it, but close enough. You might be able to fit a bigger engine in a cataphract, but I feel like you gain a great advantage having your arms up over your head rather than slung down below your waist.

[Sky Ferrix]

It works but it's tricky to master, so don't expect it to be an easy button. Don't consider it to be as good as having an UAC-20 either. A UAC-20 doesn't weigh 32 tons and severely limit your load out.

If you like to play suicidally, you'll probably break even just about every time. If you want to stay alive, here's a few tidbits I've learned from builds like these:

Close quarters you'll be able to overwhelm with sustained and accurate fire, but more than one mech pounding on you will go south fast, since being sustained and accurate with your shots won't allow for much maneuvering and damage distribution. In laymen's terms, baddie #2 will have easy shots on your valuable bits while you're maintaining constant aim on baddie #1. So, Unless you know you can catch an enemy by himself, you'll be better off laying out the lead at a moderate distance while sticking with the pack.

You'll especially want to avoid wandering off. (Goes double if you stuff an XL in there.) All it'll take are a few lights circling you and before you know it, you've lost an arm and are down 16 tons of dakka.

One last thing to mind are the low-hanging arms bearing those guns. I'd bind one group to the guns in the left arm, and another group the the guns in the right. This way if only one arm clears cover, you can selectively fire from that arm and keep a few of your rounds from needlessly eating dirt.

Good luck with it, if you decide to try it. In the right hands this set-up can be fearsome.

[TercieI]

This is what I'd recommend to start:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ecaece49b87add7

(adjust torso armor to taste, that's not quite what I actually run, just what I had saved in Smurfy)

As others have said, this is a tough build to run well. You're assault-like in your need to see ahead and pick your spots. But when you pick them right, it's brutal. I've had some great games in this beast (I actually cheat on armor in classified locations for an 8th ton of ammo since my trigger finger weighs more than the rest of my body combined, but wouldn't recommend that to others)

Edited by Terciel1976, 21 November 2013 - 08:34 PM.

[INKBALL]

Terciel1976, on 21 November 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

As others have said, this is a tough build to run well. You're assault-like in your need to see ahead and pick your spots. But when you pick them right, it's brutal.

its why i tried to not use xl, and picked smallest engine but with no need for heat sink (250)(to save slots). So you guys think with 37.5 shots i'll find myself dried before it ends ?

[TercieI]

INKBALL, on 22 November 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

its why i tried to not use xl, and picked smallest engine but with no need for heat sink (250)(to save slots). So you guys think with 37.5 shots i'll find myself dried before it ends ?

If you're doing it right, yes. I added the 8th ton because I shot through 7 pretty regularly. And I'm far from an expert on playing this (though I have Kong-sized trigger finger and heat barely punishes you here)

A good rule of thumb is 2 tons/gun, plus a little if you can find the space.

I do really think the 2ML are better than even more ammo, though. Taking that alpha from 20 to 30 at key moments is pretty helpful and you'll pretty much always have them as long as you're alive. The idea of going with 5 tons and no MLs will leave you unable to do damage a lot more often than you'd like (full disclosure, I feel naked if I don't have any energy backup, so I sneak a laser onto pretty much every build)

Edited by Terciel1976, 22 November 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[Elyam]

Whilst training the 'Phracts a while back, found that I preferred over-and-under AC/5s / AC/2s. The discordant fire rates caused a more disturbing fire suppression effect in the target. DPS was similar.

XL255, full armor (but 43 each leg), 11DHS, 2xMLAS, SSRM-2(50), 2xAC/5 (120), 2xAC/2 (300)

[Viges]

If that is hard to pilot - what do you call easy?

[warner2]

If you really want to use a dakka CTF-4X with a standard engine you might try to make a 4AC2 variant work. It's not the same as boating AC5 but it's similar. You'll be hotter so you'll have to do you're damage in bursts before retreating to cover, but you're DPS is higher and you've got more range. 3 or 4 AC2 on a mobile platform is a good build. The CTF-4X isn't the best for it but it'll do a job I'm sure.

Something like this (although 7 tons of ammo is probably not quite enough):

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...68c96579668fc9a

[TercieI]

Viges, on 22 November 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

If that is hard to pilot - what do you call easy?

Something you can reposition. This build, like an assault, has to win every engagement it enters (or die). That's actually very difficult to manage, IMO.

[VikingN1nja]

Try my 3x ac2/ac10 build is good for lols.

[Viges]

Terciel1976, on 22 November 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

Something you can reposition. This build, like an assault, has to win every engagement it enters (or die). That's actually very difficult to manage, IMO.

Are you saying that most heavies and assaults are hard to pilot? And then lights and mediums are easy to manage?

Anyway 65 kph is ok for heavy - its not slow, 20 (+10 from 2ml) damage every 1.5 sec with little heat, nice armor and hitboxes - ctf-4x with 4ac5 is one of the best (and easy) brawlers atm.

Quickdraw - that is hard to manage.

[Zordicron]

The loadout is potent. I went away from it as I found there is a lack of "fear" when fireing in group fire, and chainfire loses the whole convergence thing while shooting at moving targets.

Despite being a solid brawler, the 4X with the AC5 loadout needs a wingman. it does much, much better when it is playing buddy up with a HGN or Atlas that draws more fire, as it allows the player to slow down a bit to align shots more easily without fear of getting the same done to them. The firepower adds up fast.

Now, as I play mostly pug, I found it was quite difficult to reliably come up with a wingman that wasnt a total wuss bag chicken backing down from an engagement with a hunchback. So I needed to add some of my own suppression to create a disbalance in my foe. I switched to some AC2. I am experimanting with AC5 and UAC5, as the tonnage is almost moot, and ammo is moot. The difference is fire rate and jam. SO far, I lean towards UAC5 as the AC2 tends to run too hot for sustained fire in several maps. Bursts(when jam is nice to you) of AC2/UAC5 is very distrubing to most foes. Where I was seeing brazen foes advance right into my quad AC5 fire(despite eating a significant bit of dmg to do it) the more rapid and staggered pace of the AC2/5 combo creates more backpeddleing and twisting from foes. Creating imbalance and causing them to be on the defensive is like having extra armor. So while it is less heat effiecient, and likely even less dmg efficient, the AC2/5 combo creates more pug friendly, solo sustainability. Not to say you can Rambo into the enemy, but when Wingman pusses out and leaves you hanging, you can focus down a threat yourself a bit with rapid bullet spew.

IMO, an XL isnt the grandest thing in a 4X, as you really cant gain extra speed for it over a std, it just makes for available tonnage instead for weapons. When choosing XL over Std, my personal taste is not to devote 100% of gained tonnage to weapon loadout. I tend to upsize the engine some to gain speed also, or entirely some times as speed is key to offset XL vulnerability except in some outlying cases where you can pick up enough brute force to create DPS advantage.

As for the ammo in question, i figure if you run out of ammo, and you did what you should, like not miss 50% of shots and not fire it into arms and legs all match- by the time you are out of 500 dmg worth (avg) of ammo, you should be on the winning team. if not, well, how much more were you planning on carrying your team anyway? there is only so much one should expect out of a team mate.

Oh one last thing, I find the 4X in general to be a hideous addition to any team on conquest mode. bad at fast movers, bad at moving fast, and thats 3/4 the fight on conquest mode.

[DONTOR]

Put as much ammo in head and legs as possible

[INKBALL]

Eldagore, on 23 November 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Oh one last thing, I find the 4X in general to be a hideous addition to any team on conquest mode. bad at fast movers, bad at moving fast, and thats 3/4 the fight on conquest mode.

Well, i usually play ''all'' mode. And even there, with the 250engine, speed isnt ''bad'', with 65Kph. But i must agree, 65 isnt fast, and, in close quarter, not a lot of ppl get scared by 4xAC5 (so in conquest, and head to head, i'd go for another build)

[Zordicron]

Update. In my experiments with AC5/UAC5, I decided, why not both? LOL, so I put one of each on. Now that is some staggered dakka. When the UAC5 jams, it cuts the DPS but not as bad as having 2 mounted and having both jam, which renders dmg output pretty much down to {Scrap}. With only one ultra, the double fire of the ultra, single of the ac5, and twin ac2 really slings some lead down range. I am going to mess with some weapon groups to see if I can create a pseudo macro buy using chainfire on one trigger and group fire on another to get a really quick staggered fire effect started with chainfire and then switch to group. not something new, the multi AC2 jager guys do this all the time, but I need to experiment with the grouping I think to see how I can time the AC2/ultra double fire out.

[Arctcwolf]

I tend to chain fire the ac5s on their own trigger and keep ac2s on separate trigger. I like control over ammo usage thus if I'm moving into or out of range for ac5 then I can tweak which I fire when. Anyone can fire all weapons at once. My other setup is left side/right side...allowing me to pop half out of cover and pound away while the other half is protected.

Also I'm not in need of a heavier cover mech as I prefer a lrm boat and scout. Lrm boat covers me with missiles while scout either distracts or kills from behind.