26 replies to this topic

[Degalus]

Hi Mechwarriors!

(Warning! Many grammar and spelling errors. Its not my native language ^^ )

After reading some posts about the MWO grinding, i was thinking "why?"
Why we have such a grindfeeling in MWO and other games with less reward not?
I checked some other grindy games and realised that the rewardsystem in other mmos give you less but have chance to get bigger rewards.
The C-Bill Reward is fine but other games gives you rare items and mission rewards.
So after a long grind you get something that let you think "YEA JACKPOT"
Here in MWO you dont have anything else then every time nearly the same numbers.
So letz come to my Suggestion, its not realy new. It was often suggested but mostly not realy economiefriendly (Billionarie in 2 weeks XD).

"Salvagesystem"
I remember the Mechcommander games where salvage was so rewarding. Every match you couldnt wait to see your supercool rewardsalvage.
Everything that survived the destruction was claimable also the mechs. (hell i try a match 15 times only to get a headshot on a Madcat)

But how does this work for MWO?
Lets say you kill Mech (A) (Catapult K2) with an loadout of 4x MLaser (Larm Rarm Lshoulder Rshoulder), 2x AC10 (Lshoulder Rshoulder) 1x DBL Heatsink (Larm), 300 XL Engine, 4t AC10 Ammo (Legs) in a match.
You will get a "Chance" to get something of his equipment.
But only that equip thats not was destroyed in the match.
So if you kill him through his Lshoulder, his XL Engine, 1x AC10 2x MLaser 1x DBL Heatsink is destroyed and only 1x AC10 2x MLaser 4x AC10 Ammo are left for Salvage (A).

Only lasthiter get salvage?
No, assistkills also can get it but with less chance than the killer.
So after you kill Mech (A) with 2 other players, you would have 5% (example) chance on every item of Salvage (A) to get it BUT the assistkillers get a 2% (example) chance on the items so it could be that you get nothing or everything or only one.
Items dont duplicate so if the 2 assist guys get the 2 MLaser you wont get one.
You can also get the XL Engine but only if you kill him with a headshot or legging and many luck because if you kill him with torso logical his engine get destroyed.

Balancing the chance is very important because you shouldnt be able to farm endless xls and sell them or only get 1 item a day.
But i think it is already pretty hard to get something with that system.
Many items get destroyed, rare to get engines because mostly they blowed up and the assistskillers also shrink your chance to get something.

Would that not lead to Solorunners?
I dont think so because its already hard enough to win or kill mechs.

Abuse? 24 syncdrop?
Sure they could make it like now buuuuut they would shrink their C-Bill Rewards for getting itmes. If you want the items in a syncdrop you need to kill them with headshots or legging. This means you do nearly no dmg and there is also no guarantee to get anything. So they have more C-bill reward when they make a 24 syncdrop and destroy every component and hit every mech for assist.
Salvage is more a luckgame with a chance on a jackpot and that can motivate incredible.

Think of getting an XL after an incredible fight and a headshot kill, i would yell "HELL YES"

For this system i would also take a c-bill reward reduction if PGI say its produce too many C-Bills.

What you think about it?

Edited by Degalus, 23 November 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Escef]

You already get bonus C-bills for salvage.

[Degalus]

Escef, on 23 November 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

You already get bonus C-bills for salvage.

I dont talk about C-Bill Bonus... I talk about real Salvage. About harvest items from your victims!
Ever played Mechcommander?
Mech Salvage Mechcommader 1
Mech Salvage Mechcommader 2

Would feel much more rewarding

Not to forget that you can get something usefull for your mechs.

Edited by Degalus, 23 November 2013 - 07:56 AM.

[fandre]

To make this idea more appealing to PGI you can reduce the chance for salvaging to 1% or lower and increase it while in premium time e.g. 2-4%.

Edited by fandre, 23 November 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[Escef]

Yes, I've played MechCommander. I've also played campaigns in table top Battletech/MechWarrior where we'd strip downed enemy mechs for parts if we couldn't get them back up and running.

I also don't like ANY of the options in your poll. All of them are either saying we need more c-bills, or to salvage junk, or both. How about, Hey, I'm content with it as is?

[fandre]

Salvage can also be limited to weapons and equipment but you get an larger amount of c-bills than now for salvaged mechs/ mech parts

[Degalus]

fandre, on 23 November 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

To make this idea more appeing to PGI you can reduce the chance for salvaging to 1% or lower and increase it while in premium time e.g. 2-4%.

Good Idea! But i dont think we can say exact % numbers. Maybe its too low maybe its too high. Only a testrun would show how many we need.
But +1 for Premtime Salvage Bonus ^^

[Degalus]

Escef, on 23 November 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

Yes, I've played MechCommander. I've also played campaigns in table top Battletech/MechWarrior where we'd strip downed enemy mechs for parts if we couldn't get them back up and running.

I also don't like ANY of the options in your poll. All of them are either saying we need more c-bills, or to salvage junk, or both. How about, Hey, I'm content with it as is?

Poll corrected. Feel free to vote

[Iqfish]

Please, give me a proper salvage System, with fancy animations and a Jackpotty feel.

PLEAS!

[fandre]

Degalus, on 23 November 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

But i dont think we can say exact % numbers. Maybe its too low maybe its too high.
But +1 for Premtime Salvage Bonus ^^

You are right, % have to be properly adjusted. My numbers are only examples to illustrate the concept ;-)

Edited by fandre, 23 November 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[Degalus]

fandre, on 23 November 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Salvage can also be limited to weapons and equipment but you get an larger amount of c-bills than now for salvaged mechs/ mech parts

I would like to see an jackpot XL Engine drop. I dont think we need to limit it, because the rare Headshots, sharing chance with other players and low % chance that anyone get it.
Sure legkills would rise but the playerbase would also just rise the armor in the Legs.

[Mawai]

It's a cool idea.

However, lets consider what the drop rate would need to be for it to work ...

Currently, the salvage bonus is based on the cbill value of surviving equipment on opposing mechs and then divided equally among the players on the winning team.

To keep this revenue neutral you would have to eliminate the salvage bonus and substitute a rare chance to obtain an item instead.

I think the chance would be so rare that the system would not feel very rewarding.

The average salvage payout to the winning team is about 20,000 cbills/person ... 240,000 cbills for the team.
This would mean you could award an AC20, ERPPC about once every match or two ... but it would be the ONLY salvage. If you want to throw an XL engine into the mix ... which is worth about 2.5 million then you would have about 10 matches with absolutely NO salvage ... and on the 10th match ... one person of the 12 winning players could get an XL engine. Considering that you want to give out some other salvage as well ... it might be an XL every 50 matches with 10 yielding no salvage and the rest averaging one AC20/ERPPC or equivalent ... which would be about 6 medium lasers.

Even after winning this "rare" loot .. most folks would turn around and sell it since they might not need it or can't use it or would rather have something else .. or they just end up accumulating. For example ... I have 44 medium lasers, 22 streak srm2 and an unknown but very large number of single heat sinks.

[Degalus]

Mawai, on 23 November 2013 - 07:21 PM, said:

It's a cool idea.

However, lets consider what the drop rate would need to be for it to work ...

Currently, the salvage bonus is based on the cbill value of surviving equipment on opposing mechs and then divided equally among the players on the winning team.

To keep this revenue neutral you would have to eliminate the salvage bonus and substitute a rare chance to obtain an item instead.

I think the chance would be so rare that the system would not feel very rewarding.

The average salvage payout to the winning team is about 20,000 cbills/person ... 240,000 cbills for the team.
This would mean you could award an AC20, ERPPC about once every match or two ... but it would be the ONLY salvage. If you want to throw an XL engine into the mix ... which is worth about 2.5 million then you would have about 10 matches with absolutely NO salvage ... and on the 10th match ... one person of the 12 winning players could get an XL engine. Considering that you want to give out some other salvage as well ... it might be an XL every 50 matches with 10 yielding no salvage and the rest averaging one AC20/ERPPC or equivalent ... which would be about 6 medium lasers.

Even after winning this "rare" loot .. most folks would turn around and sell it since they might not need it or can't use it or would rather have something else .. or they just end up accumulating. For example ... I have 44 medium lasers, 22 streak srm2 and an unknown but very large number of single heat sinks.

THATs the Feedback i wanted

You are right! This give me some to think.

I realy dont want to kill the economie, it only should generate some excitement like in mechcommander. Sure this was a Singleplayerfeature and you had more then enough at the end but it feels so rewarding.
I forgot that Mechwarrior 3 and 4 also had that feature
Mechwarrior 3 Salvage
Mechwarrior 4 Salvage
It should have a place in MWO too.
Dont forget that a Jackpot like a XL shouldnt need that you dont get any salvage for 2.5 mil value.
A Jackpot should give you way more then u spend or its not a jackpot. Its the low "chance" to get a Jackpot thats motivate.
Maybe some of the following points can help with the problem you mentioned.

Variable Droprate:
Different % for every Item. Like a Medium Laser have %5 chance and a XL Engine 1%. (would be a hell of a job to balancing this)
It would produce like you already mentioned, many heatsinks and ammo that you just sell but you have still the "i get something, maybe better luck next time" feeling. In other MMOs you grind a instanz for a week just for 1 item or you get it in the first try. The chance to something great can motivate incredible.

Dynamic Droprate:
The % on every item is here also different but it also change on how many you already get. So if u get too many in too short time your chances sinks. Can be based on a Salvage value per hour.

Salvage Poll:
The Salvage poll have a limited amount of Points and at the end of the Match you need to choose what you want. The Pool resets every day like the first win of the day. Lets say the Pool have 100 points, a Medium Laser cost 10 and a XL engine 80. This could also help PGI to control the amount of C-Bill production.

Discount:
Or you get salvage for a reduced Price. So you can redeem a 5 mil XL Engine for 2,5 mil. When CW comes out and the costs are dynamical it should calculate the price on the current marketprice.

What you think?

Edited by Degalus, 24 November 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[luxebo]

Wait, so what happens if everyone starts headshotting beginners in champion trials? I can't imagine what would happen if someone just walks to a cap point, headshots a not really afk person (not dcd, but afk) and earns full salvage along with an XL?

[990Dreams]

I personally think that salvage should have a separate mode (like hardcore). But I like my Mechs in my Mech bay, and don't want someone stealing them.

EDIT: Now I wouldn't mind more bonus for salvage, but I want to keep my Mechs (especially the ones I payed MC for). Keep in mind it will encourage people to not fight much and just get participation reward. AND it iwll encourage people to "tank" it (max armor and only headshots with super destructive weapons). AND and splash weapons (Long Tom) will be a nightmare even more with the salvage system.

Summed up:
IDC as long as I keep my Mech

Edited by DavidHurricane, 24 November 2013 - 01:57 PM.

[Appogee]

Bobble Heads. We need to be able to salvage Bobble Heads.

[Degalus]

luxebo, on 24 November 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Wait, so what happens if everyone starts headshotting beginners in champion trials? I can't imagine what would happen if someone just walks to a cap point, headshots a not really afk person (not dcd, but afk) and earns full salvage along with an XL?

They would have a chance to get something. Currently exactly this can happen already. I killed many nonmoving afk like mechs (many componets destroyed for more c-bill) and close before death he start moving. Too bad they was zombiemechs anyway. But i dont think Afk Mechs are the Meta ^^

DavidHurricane, on 24 November 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

I personally think that salvage should have a separate mode (like hardcore). But I like my Mechs in my Mech bay, and don't want someone stealing them.

EDIT: Now I wouldn't mind more bonus for salvage, but I want to keep my Mechs (especially the ones I payed MC for). Keep in mind it will encourage people to not fight much and just get participation reward. AND it iwll encourage people to "tank" it (max armor and only headshots with super destructive weapons). AND and splash weapons (Long Tom) will be a nightmare even more with the salvage system.

Summed up:
IDC as long as I keep my Mech

You misunderstand me here. You dont lose anything. Currently you also dont need to rebuy destroyed items. With items dont duplicate i only talk about the salvage for the killer and assistkiller. Also if Headshot would be so easy, would we not all do it currently?

Appogee, on 24 November 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Bobble Heads. We need to be able to salvage Bobble Heads.

A must have

Edited by Degalus, 24 November 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[990Dreams]

Degalus, on 24 November 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

You misunderstand me here. You dont lose anything. Currently you also dont need to rebuy destroyed items. With items dont duplicate i only talk about the salvage for the killer and assistkiller. Also if Headshot would be so easy, would we not all do it currently?

Ohh. In that case, sure. Lets add a salvage screen (a good idea would be to have the option to repair not-totally-destroyed items [i.e if one XL shoulder dies you might repair the engine])

[fandre]

For me, the idea of getting a discount on parts is the most interesting one. Say, you have a X% chance to salvage an item (X depending on the item?) then you wont get the item but a X% discount for buying such an item in the mech bay. The discount can also depent on some parameters and it should be summing up, when you get multiple discounts for one item.

You can also interpret it as getting a damaged item and you have to pay for the repair of it (or discard it for free -> not using your discount)

Edited by fandre, 24 November 2013 - 03:26 PM.

[Degalus]

fandre, on 24 November 2013 - 03:24 PM, said:

For me, the idea of getting a discount on parts is the most interesting one. Say, you have a X% chance to salvage an item (X depending on the item?) then you wont get the item but a X% discount for buying such an item in the mech bay. The discount can also depent on some parameters and it should be summing up, when you get multiple discounts for one item.

You can also interpret it as getting a damaged item and you have to pay for the repair of it (or discard it for free -> not using your discount)

A discount for later? hmm i think you should be forced to choose it after the match if you want it or not. Save a discount for later sound not right for a salvagesystem.