155 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 25 November 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Define trouble makers. Most often when that term is applied some group or individual is silenced to benefit a few.

I think its pretty basic in that common rules of civility apply. Past that freedom of speech should be honored.

I won't define this, as I really don't have a problem with most players and it isn't my forum . But if PGI sees some language as being inappropriate, who am I to argue their decision. Their forum, their rules.

[Sam Slade]

there's another solutiuon...

robertsspacceindustries.com

[Joseph Mallan]

Sam Slade, on 25 November 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

there's another solutiuon...

robertsspacceindustries.com

No giant stompy robots that I know of there...

[Sandpit]

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 November 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

I won't define this, as I really don't have a problem with most players and it isn't my forum . But if PGI sees some language as being inappropriate, who am I to argue their decision. Their forum, their rules.

Well how do you feel about the founders purge after 3pv? I witnessed that and though a couple crossed the line, most did not. They were just silenced.

[DONTOR]

Its true... but I still wont do it!

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 25 November 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

Well how do you feel about the founders purge after 3pv? I witnessed that and though a couple crossed the line, most did not. They were just silenced.

How do I feel about "the Purge"... I don't. If the language was not within the DEVs liking, they had the right to silence them. When I spoke out against 3pV, my posts were not removed, nor was I silenced, so apparently, the DEVs do have some area that is considered acceptable disagreement.

[FupDup]

Sam Slade, on 25 November 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

there's another solutiuon...

robertsspacceindustries.com

It does not have giant robots. It is therefore invalid.

[Almond Brown]

FupDup, on 24 November 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

You didn't answer my question. We need/want a method to directly show that an entity is not properly "balanced," and does not rely on simply saying that something is imba by making a forum post, because forum posts don't usually get read (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse). What is that method?

Simply, as noted already, playing the game. The data metrics will reveal themselves through basic play (the more matches the better of course) but as was also noted, doing something out of character, just because you think it will wake the Dev, is like robbing your own bank, assuming they will tighten up, what you seem to think is as "lax security measures" after your gone to prison.

[FupDup]

Almond Brown, on 25 November 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Simply, as noted already, playing the game. The data metrics will reveal themselves through basic play (the more matches the better of course) but as was also noted, doing something out of character, just because you think it will wake the Dev, is like robbing your own bank, assuming they will tighten up, what you seem to think is as "lax security measures" after your gone to prison.

I'm having a hard time believing that people can influence some kind of gameplay change by literally doing nothing. What you're basically suggesting is that if people want world peace, they should simply continue to go to work every day and do the daily routine without doing anything they normally don't, instead of trying to get involved with certain organizations or w/e.

Edited by FupDup, 25 November 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I still say the best way to fix something that is OP is to fin a way to beat it. and don't stop till you do. I have yet to not find a way to beat FotM builds. I did not need Ghost heat to beat 6 PPC Stalkers When I was a Missile boat most fast lights and Mediums had a fair chance of defeating me. No the best way to fix the game is to find how to win v a strategy/build by trial and error.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 November 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

I still say the best way to fix something that is OP is to fin a way to beat it. and don't stop till you do. I have yet to not find a way to beat FotM builds. I did not need Ghost heat to beat 6 PPC Stalkers When I was a Missile boat most fast lights and Mediums had a fair chance of defeating me. No the best way to fix the game is to find how to win v a strategy/build by trial and error.

Learning to beat the FoTM's doesn't make people stop spamming them (thus matches can get boring), nor does it result in buffs to underloved items such as Narc or the Large Pulse Laser.

[Almond Brown]

FupDup, on 25 November 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

I'm having a hard time believing that people can influence some kind of gameplay change by literally doing nothing. What you're basically suggesting is that if people want world peace, they should simply continue to go to work every day and do the daily routine without doing anything they normally don't, instead of trying to get involved with certain organizations or w/e.

Or perhaps you could be a tad more patient as the Dev have been providing regular (bi-weekly as of 12 months) Patches and updates for 2 years now.

Just because your personal timeline is not being met doesn't mean squat.

And if everyone did just that, all over the world, who would have time for anything but Peace...

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 November 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

How do I feel about "the Purge"... I don't. If the language was not within the DEVs liking, they had the right to silence them. When I spoke out against 3pV, my posts were not removed, nor was I silenced, so apparently, the DEVs do have some area that is considered acceptable disagreement.

Most of the time when I see threads locked, deleted, or jettisoned, it's not because of content, it's because it was either a duplicate, or jsut a troll thread.

When I see a player's post go through the same it's usually because it was the same thing as the above mentioned threads. But then the player wants to cry foul because they were "censored" and try to play the victim and say it was censored because they wrote something that PGI didn't agree with or it was "negative"

One quick look at the forums SHOULD leave no doubt in anyone's minds that players aren't allowed to criticize PGI or the game. You just have to keep it constructive and civil.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 25 November 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Learning to beat the FoTM's doesn't make people stop spamming them (thus matches can get boring), nor does it result in buffs to underloved items such as Narc or the Large Pulse Laser.

There are weapons I just would not use even if they are made par. I use what I like, an usually that isn't FotM weapons. As to those builds, I could care less if they are used a lot. Easily explained as I am facing the same enemy House fight after fight.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 November 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 25 November 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Most of the time when I see threads locked, deleted, or jettisoned, it's not because of content, it's because it was either a duplicate, or jsut a troll thread.

When I see a player's post go through the same it's usually because it was the same thing as the above mentioned threads. But then the player wants to cry foul because they were "censored" and try to play the victim and say it was censored because they wrote something that PGI didn't agree with or it was "negative"

One quick look at the forums SHOULD leave no doubt in anyone's minds that players aren't allowed to criticize PGI or the game. You just have to keep it constructive and civil.

As we can see, this is not something that seems to happen to me to often. Actually you can constructively criticize PGI, but as you said you have to be civil. I have many a post that says "PGI was dumb to have done X" an those posts are still on the forum.

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 November 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

As we can see, this is not something that seems to happen to me to often. Actually you can constructively criticize PGI, but as you said you have to be civil. I have many a post that says "PGI was dumb to have done X" an those posts are still on the forum.

exactly. I rarely (can count on one hand) have had posts deleted, etc. And I have MORE than bashed PGI on a few things because I felt they were bash worthy

[Navy Sixes]

Sandpit, on 24 November 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

That's pretty much what he's saying to do....

"Broken" "OP" and "Useless" are 3 of the most common words used here. If those posts were factually correct you would see nothing, and I mena absolutely nothing, but ballistic poptarts and lrm mechs on the field. You definitely wouldn't see anyone win a match in anything but those. Do you see what we're getting at?

Maybe I misunderstood the OT. If so, I apologize for going on a very long wall o text tirade when I pretty much agree with the OT. I actually wrote yet another wall of text post asserting that everyone should build and learn to run any mech they think is "OP-Broken" before they start the forum QQ circuit. It was jettisoned (probably for my liberal use of the term "lunchbox" to describe people who don't know what they're doing yet on the battlefield) but my point is that I wholly endorse the idea that players should understand a potentially broken system intimately before they start complaining. "It kills me a lot" or "look at this graph I made" is not enough to equal broken.

I thought the idea of the OT was that if you think something in the game is OP broken you should run it exclusively. You should boat the hell out of it. What's more (and here's where my problem is) you should be convincing everyone you can to run and boat it as well. The theory being that the devs will see the imbalance more clearly if we exaggerate the problem on the battlefield.

Hey, I'm all for communal action (power to the proles and allodat) but my problem is that invariably you will come across too many people who don't want to run your suggested build, no matter how many dps charts you show them, and the OT's plan will fail. At that point there are many who will cross the line between a suggestion and actively imposing their opinions on other players. This includes everything from verbal bullying in chat & forums ("Your build sucks!") to unit leaders enforcing "Run this mech or get out" rules, all the way to players TKing their own teammates for fielding "non-optimized" mechs in the PUGs.

I was trying to point out a bit of a conundrum at play, I think. For the OT's idea of communal action to work, at some point you are going to have to cross that line. And once you cross that line, you are more of a problem for the health of this game than whatever it is you set out to fix.

[Felio]

If they cared about gameplay statistics, we'd be seeing Trebuchet buffs by now. Among countless other things.

[Ngamok]

FupDup, on 24 November 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

You didn't answer my question. We need/want a method to directly show that an entity is not properly "balanced," and does not rely on simply saying that something is imba by making a forum post, because forum posts don't usually get read (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse). What is that method?

Challenge PGI to 12 mans then. Show them how to get rolled. What happened to collision again? Oh, that's right, the goons kept knocking over Paul to demonstrate it. Only way to show them is to do it directly.

Edited by Ngamok, 26 November 2013 - 10:49 AM.