93 replies to this topic

[Whatzituyah]

I have been using energy weapons for a long time and as long as you have double heatsinks and stand still in a safe place to not get shot to cooldown aswell as take some fireing dissipline you will be fine. Turns out standing still actually makes the heat dissapate faster you know why? Its a rule of battletech and they implemented it in this game! True ballistics and LRMS maybe a little more op but its not to big of a deal for energy boats unless you just alpha a hot weapon with another then it is a problem. ER PPCS and PPCS are the ones needing a buff in reality of balance everything elses seems fine with some fireing dissipline.

I understand that its not ok too standstill its just that sometimes you have too just to get another shot. Speaking of shots bring CoolShots for emergency only.

Ignore my grammer and spelling errors. I am sorry you cannot understand.

I hope you learned something from me.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 01 December 2013 - 07:48 PM.

[Turist0AT]

as an LPL user, i dont agree with you.

[Whatzituyah]

Turist0AT, on 23 November 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

as an LPL user, i dont agree with you.

You don't have to agree with me! I just wish I could duel you ingame to prove what I am doing. But alas there is not an arena to do it on yet.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 23 November 2013 - 12:14 PM.

[Turist0AT]

You are saying that if i stand still ill be able to handle the heat better, i will try it out. How mutch better does it get?

[Whatzituyah]

Turist0AT, on 23 November 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

You are saying that if i stand still ill be able to handle the heat better, i will try it out. How mutch better does it get?

Tiny bit I knowticed once when moving me heat goes up 4% from the original 4% so its at 8% and it also dissapates slower so when you stop moving it dissapates faster basically when your engine isnt making you move its better.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 23 November 2013 - 12:23 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

I agree,

Medium Lasers and PPC's are pretty neat.

[Greyboots]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

I have been using energy weapons for a long time and as long as you have double heatsinks and stand still in a safe place to not get shot to cooldown aswell as take some fireing dissipline you will be fine. Turns out standing still actually makes the heat dissapate faster you know why?

No, it doesn't. Moving generates an amount of heat equivalent to the speed your mech is capable of moving.

Standing still doesn't make you dissipate heat faster, it makes you generate less heat.

Quote

ER PPCS and PPCS are the ones needing a buff in reality of balance everything elses seems fine with some fireing dissipline.

This view is very dependant on playstyle and mech size and is not a "universal truth".

Quote

I hope you learned something from me.

No, I didn't because this isn;t anything that's not been covered quite a lot. The simple fact is that AC mechs are far better at sustained firepower than Laser mechs. Why? Well, it costs you 12 tons for an AC 10 giving you 4 DPS.

It costs you 10 tons for 2 Large Lasers giving you a DPS of 4.24.

Both have an optimal range of 450m.

Medium lasers are still dealing damage at 450m so you can add a little more damage if you like. OR you can just add 2 medium lasers for them to be there. Then you trade out one large laser for an ER Large laser.

You now have one weapon firing at long range and fired solo so it's no heat issue allowing you to at least throw something back at the AC 10. You then get into the midrange and now fire the ER Large and the Large laser to get a DPS advantage.
Then you get into short range and you fire the Large LAser and the 2 Medium Lasers.

Long range: You potentially lose to the AC in DPS but a miss isn't a miss, you can drag the laser onto the target for partial damage.

Optimal range: You now have a higher DPS than the AC 10.

Short range: Medium Lasers have a DPS of 1.25 (x2 = 2.5). You fire 1 large laser and 2 medium lasers for 4.62 DPS (again you win) which the same heat as the ER Large BUT offers a higher DPS. You ALSO have the option of burst firing at 6.74 DPS.

The AC 10 is just 4 DPS no matter what.

The problem? The AC10 takes ONE hardpoint where the Laser setup takes 4.

This is why lasers are USUALLY backed by either missile or ballistic weapons except on rare mechs. These rare all-energy mechs are actually the only real issue.

The game simply doesn't allow all-energy wepaon mechs to be competitive above Mediums outside of a very narrow range of gameplay. You CANNOT build an all-energy weapon mech that will go toe to toe with a ballistic-heavy mech of the same size. The space and hardpoints required simply force you into inadequate or under-cooled setups that only work in the most narrowest of circumstances.

The ideal is that you avoid 100% Energy Weapon mechs completely unless you have a very compelling reason not to. They aren't for everyone and I doubt they ever will be again. If you want to go toe to toe with an AC mech? Take an AC mech. It's kind of that simple (though more experienced players will push the boundaries of that statement significantly).

That being said? Energy weapons aren't that bad. They only look bad when in isolation. When considered as part of a viable setup? There's many mechs making very good use of them.

Edited by Greyboots, 23 November 2013 - 06:25 PM.

[Whatzituyah]

Greyboots, on 23 November 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

No, it doesn't. Moving generates an amount of heat equivalent to the speed your mech is capable of moving.

Standing still doesn't make you dissipate heat faster, it makes you generate less heat.



This view is very dependant on playstyle and mech size and is not a "universal truth".



No, I didn't because this isn;t anything that's not been covered quite a lot. The simple fact is that AC mechs are far better at sustained firepower than Laser mechs. Why? Well, it costs you 12 tons for an AC 10 giving you 4 DPS.

It costs you 10 tons for 2 Large Lasers giving you a DPS of 4.24.

Both have an optimal range of 450m.

Medium lasers are still dealing damage at 450m so you can add a little more damage if you like. OR you can just add 2 medium lasers for them to be there. Then you trade out one large laser for an ER Large laser.

You now have one weapon firing at long range and fired solo so it's no heat issue allowing you to at least throw something back at the AC 10. You then get into the midrange and now fire the ER Large and the Large laser to get a DPS advantage.
Then you get into short range and you fire the Large LAser and the 2 Medium Lasers.

Long range: You potentially lose to the AC in DPS but a miss isn't a miss, you can drag the laser onto the target for partial damage.

Optimal range: You now have a higher DPS than the AC 10.

Short range: Medium Lasers have a DPS of 1.25 (x2 = 2.5). You fire 1 large laser and 2 medium lasers for 4.62 DPS (again you win) which the same heat as the ER Large BUT offers a higher DPS. You ALSO have the option of burst firing at 6.74 DPS.

The AC 10 is just 4 DPS no matter what.

The problem? The AC10 takes ONE hardpoint where the Laser setup takes 4.

This is why lasers are USUALLY backed by either missile or ballistic weapons except on rare mechs. These rare all-energy mechs are actually the only real issue.

The game simply doesn't allow all-energy wepaon mechs to be competitive above Mediums outside of a very narrow range of gameplay. You CANNOT build an all-energy weapon mech that will go toe to toe with a ballistic-heavy mech of the same size. The space and hardpoints required simply force you into inadequate or under-cooled setups that only work in the most narrowest of circumstances.

The ideal is that you avoid 100% Energy Weapon mechs completely unless you have a very compelling reason not to. They aren't for everyone and I doubt they ever will be again. If you want to go toe to toe with an AC mech? Take an AC mech. It's kind of that simple (though more experienced players will push the boundaries of that statement significantly).

That being said? Energy weapons aren't that bad. They only look bad when in isolation. When considered as part of a viable setup? There's many mechs making very good use of them.

I swear your wrong about the heat dissapation it goes down slightly faster then normal when standing still and if you dont believe me then I guess its just my opinion now is it? Still energy weapons have a huge advantage over ammo weapons because they are just pure energy no ammo is needed. Also while I am at it let me ask you this question. What will happen if everything is nerfed? A boring game thats what.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 23 November 2013 - 06:31 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

mwhighlander, on 23 November 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

I agree,

Medium Lasers and PPC's are pretty neat.

*edited for mispasting.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 23 November 2013 - 06:33 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

He gets it.

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

He gets it.

lol, that was erroneous pasting on my part ... been fixed.

[Whatzituyah]

xMEPHISTOx, on 23 November 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

*edited for mispasting.

Still get it.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

Still get it.

Do you...do you really...? Or is this just an easy way for you to up your post count.

[Whatzituyah]

xMEPHISTOx, on 23 November 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Do you...do you really...? Or is this just an easy way for you to up your post count.

Nope not really saying ppcs are good is just proving my point

[Wolfways]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Still energy weapons have a huge advantage over ammo weapons because they are just pure energy no ammo is needed.

But you have to cram as many DHS into the mech as possible instead.
Ammo = 1 ton and 1 crit.
DHS = 1 ton and 3 crits.

[Whatzituyah]

Wolfways, on 23 November 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

But you have to cram as many DHS into the mech as possible instead.
Ammo = 1 ton and 1 crit.
DHS = 1 ton and 3 crits.

Your telling me that ammo weapons don't generate heat either....

[Wolfways]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 06:43 PM, said:

Your telling me that ammo weapons don't generate heat either....

Not even close to what energy weapons generate.

[Sandpit]

STK-5M

Firing discipline is more important than anything else. Chain fire is your friend and learning WHEN to risk an overheat on an alpha.

I don't agree with the whole "standing still" thing but I do think you have to be very aware situationally. You have to be very aware of your location and enemy positions. It's always a good idea to have a plan to be able to pull out of the conflict for a few seconds to cool off when needed. You're not going to out brawl anything. You can do just as much if not more damage but you can't fire off all your weapons as often as those brawl builds can especially when dealing with a dakka dakka.

Edited by Sandpit, 23 November 2013 - 06:48 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Whatzituyah, on 23 November 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Nope not really saying ppcs are good is just proving my point

I do fine w/them as do many others that I play with. Maybe your just bad?

On another note. I tire of complaints on simple things at this point. The game has improved greatly since alpha and closed beta. I do not want to drown the devs in work at this point that to me is low priority. The game plays better than it has at any previous time. What I do want them working on is Community Warfare, UI2.0 and a lobby system. Further fine tuning of weapons and the like can be done anytime but the longer we do not get CW the more people that get bored and lose interest and just move on.

[Mcgral18]

Sure, energy weapons aren't that bad, but they aren't that good, especially when compared to ACs and how the heat system is handled. Between low cooling rates and ghost heat, energy boats just are not as good as ballistic boats.

[Sandpit]

Mcgral18, on 23 November 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Sure, energy weapons aren't that bad, but they aren't that good, especially when compared to ACs and how the heat system is handled. Between low cooling rates and ghost heat, energy boats just are not as good as ballistic boats.

That's your opinion though. I do better in energy builds than I do ballistics. So my opinion is that they're actually better than dakkas.