61 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

I'm convinced more than ever that too few people actually know what "balance" means in context to MW:O game-play...

For most of these people balance seems to translates into "Nerf anything that hurts me and buff anything I can't figure out how to properly maximize it's potential"...

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 25 November 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

I'm convinced more than ever that too few people actually know what "balance" means in context to MW:O game-play...

For most of these people balance seems to translates into "Nerf anything that hurts me and buff anything I can't figure out how to properly maximize it's potential"...

pretty much

[Roadbeer]

DaZur, on 25 November 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

I'm convinced more than ever that too few people actually know what "balance" means in context to MW:O game-play...

For most of these people balance seems to translates into "Nerf anything that hurts me and buff anything I can't figure out how to properly maximize it's potential"...

QFT. Proof of that when people say that Arty/Air is op

[akpavker]

Sandpit, on 25 November 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

you're making an assumption though. It just leads people to dismiss other points. Even when I was a noob in MWO I wasn't a typical noob. I understood Btech, the universe, weapons, mechs, movements, strategies, etc. so that would have been completely irrelevant even when I was a "noob". I was just trying to show that calling someone's opinion out based on the fact that they're a new player is no different than making other blanket stereotypical statements such as

Lasers are useless
AC are OP
PGI is trolling the players for a cash grab and want the game to fail

It just tales away from good points you make

the 3 points are very valid AC's are more powerful then lasers but the nerf crying has to stop. a good percentage of nerf posts come from new players. if any thing UP weapons need buffing not OP weapon being nerfed.

[Roadbeer]

akpavker, on 25 November 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

a good percentage of nerf posts come from new players. if any thing UP weapons need buffing not OP weapon being nerfed.

I could also point out that a good portion of the nerf/buff posts also come from those who are neither founders or phoenix purchasers. So with no proof that you've spent a dime on the game, what qualifies someone to make a post about it unless they have a financial interest in it succeeding?

How do we know that you aren't just a plant from another upstart game making willy nilly suggestions in order to damage production?

Glass houses and all that.

[akpavker]

Roadbeer, on 25 November 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

I could also point out that a good portion of the nerf/buff posts also come from those who are neither founders or phoenix purchasers. So with no proof that you've spent a dime on the game, what qualifies someone to make a post about it unless they have a financial interest in it succeeding?

How do we know that you aren't just a plant from another upstart game making willy nilly suggestions in order to damage production?

Glass houses and all that.

og its roadbeer the king of trolls!!


i wasnt here for the founders pack and i didnt think that the phoenix was worth what they were asking for. ive spent around $130 buying mech bays and hero mechs......

sorry for not having a tag next to my forum name!!

[Roadbeer]

akpavker, on 25 November 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

og its roadbeer the king of trolls!!

Thanks, it's always nice to meet a fan.

akpavker, on 25 November 2013 - 08:50 PM, said:

ive spent around $130 buying mech bays and hero mechs......

sorry for not having a tag next to my forum name!!

See, it's similar to the qualifier you've placed on the observations of new players and somehow their points are invalid due to the length of time they've been here. Someone could place the same qualifier on you for the amount of money you've spent.

Like I said, glass houses.

Oh, and one exclamation point is just as effective as two

[JudgeDeathCZ]

akpavker, on 25 November 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

the 3 points are very valid AC's are more powerful then lasers but the nerf crying has to stop. a good percentage of nerf posts come from new players. if any thing UP weapons need buffing not OP weapon being nerfed.

Yeah buff mah lazorz !

[akpavker]

Roadbeer, on 25 November 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Thanks, it's always nice to meet a fan.



See, it's similar to the qualifier you've placed on the observations of new players and somehow their points are invalid due to the length of time they've been here. Someone could place the same qualifier on you for the amount of money you've spent.

Like I said, glass houses.

Oh, and one exclamation point is just as effective as two

nope you get 2 exclamation marks sorry!!

[GalaxyBluestar]

akpavker, on 25 November 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

a good percentage of nerf posts come from new players.

found your problem, Lordz don't happen overnight and people need to explain this for everyone of these reactionary style threads.

would be handy if the OP hung around so finer points could be discussed so we could get down to the cruciable of the player's woes. it usually helps but lo and behold it's just another vent and dump wasted thread.

[warp103]

To me I am sick. Sick of the call to nerf this and nerf that. This is why we have {Scrap} like ghost heat. I do not care if the guy is boating 4ppc, 4 ac5, 5-6 ac2. I kill them all the same. Me with my 2LL and 2 lbx10. I have a 2.0 KTD. I sorry if this comes off wrong but i would not care if they the one trick pony 6ppc. This game has been nerfed in to the dirt. The favor of the moment is dakka dakka, Why because nerf to ppc. Before it was ppc why because lrms were nerfed. Before that it was Lrms why because srm were nerfed . Sense a pattern. It is simple each weapon have a counter build but the cry babys wined now it dakka dakka turn. Soon we will be throwing rocks. It a shame that i only use one mech know because the game is so vanilla that it does not matter the mech most builds are the same. Mack was right this game is turning in to .....Sh ite
first 3 min you will get the picture


or my pug life video. {not even a good pilot}

Edited by warp103, 25 November 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[Henry Morgan]

Roadbeer, on 25 November 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Oh, and one exclamation point is just as effective as two

Not really. Everyone knows that if you're REALLY wanting to make a point, a minimum of 15 exclamation points is required. Then, people know you're serious. All caps helps too.

[Blurry]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 25 November 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

Yeah buff mah lazorz !

I was just cleaning it and it went off honest.

Sorry but it doesnt take long to see where things are at with this game. After 15 - 20 matches you have a good idea of what is doing the damage. And no the first instinct isnt to run to the forums.

the first instinct is to see what did the damage and where then go to the testing grounds and see, Again doesnt take long to see what weapons do what and why things are op.
It isnt nubs running to the forum - a waaaaa i got hit -i died
That is the game - you shoot, you hit, you die - and you do it over and over and over. It doesnt take long to see what is giving the better advantage.

[Joseph Mallan]

WandiXXL, on 25 November 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

I read the word BALANCE in the board title. What balance?


Weapons:

Atm Ballistics and Missiles are overpowered, especially SMALL Ballistics. Not even talking about the Gauss-Rifle.

Small Autocannons (5/2) should have a minimal range , for short Range you have AC 10 or 20, But a 4 x AC5 Mech is more effective than a single AC 20 Mech.

Energy-based Mechs are the stepchild atm, because heatmanagement is a mess, You do more damage with a Small AC mech , and you are more heat efficient, as DOUBLE HEAT-SInks only do 1,4 heat.

If you don't have an AMS OR the invisiblemaking ECM ... LRMs literally kill you before you see the opp mech. They are Killers while fired indirectly. Although indirect fire should be harder, it is easier in MWO.

oh and that firing beyond range thing is funny two ..LRMs/SRMs explode at their max range... but you can sniper with ac20s???

To correct you. Ballistics and Missiles are the FotM. Ballistics have not gotten OP in the 9 months I have used them. 4 AC5s are just as rough as they were 6 months ago. BEFORE they were being whined about. Twin AC20 are a perfect wrecking ball, as they should be. And Missiles are only a problem when they are launched in storms! For the Love of Unity. It is a combat game, in combat folks die both quickly and drawn out. The Better the player the longer they live. So if we are dying to fast... maybe we are not as good as we would like to be. Lets earn our 2.0+ K/D ratio and stop asking for it to be handed to us.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadbeer, on 25 November 2013 - 08:54 PM, said:

Thanks, it's always nice to meet a fan.



See, it's similar to the qualifier you've placed on the observations of new players and somehow their points are invalid due to the length of time they've been here. Someone could place the same qualifier on you for the amount of money you've spent.

Like I said, glass houses.

Oh, and one exclamation point is just as effective as two

You mean like that I spent $260 in one weekend on my 4 Accounts back in March? Is that kinda what you were eluding to Beer?

No harm Meant AK. I did this to point out of how silly it is to form an opinion on worth by how much money one spends, posts one has, or Time in game one logs.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 November 2013 - 05:01 AM.

[WandiXXL]

akpavker, on 25 November 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

er 6500 drops and 60+ leveled mech on my account i think this puts a massive gap between me and him. to be honest i don't really care if you call/think i am a noob. and im not saying he cant have an opinion.



he has the right to do and say what ever he likes but a new player calling for multiple nerfs after 4-5 weeks of gaming is laughable. its not my fault he is standing still in the middle of the battle field not taking cover and getting owned buy these weapons. i could've run with the old L2P rant so i guess you could say i was being nice.



i don't want the game to sink at all but at the same time im sick of nubs that have been playing for 5 minutes dieing and coming to the forums complaining about the first weapons that kills them. sorry but a dumb idea is a dumb idea, idc if you have been playing for 2 years or 2 weeks and i have no problem pointing that out. i mean honestly.......



ballistics are over powered and he isn't even talking about the gauss??? is he saying the gauss is actually useful?? last time i checked its a steaming pile of **** that is worthless. it has a 1 second charge up time and a 4 second cool down thats 1 shot ever 5 seconds if you get a target to shot in the .75 second window you have to fire it. really were going to compare them.....there is no comparison!



here we talk about AC's having a minimum range........???really???
since when has a ac 10 been considered as a short range weapon.......450 range 1350 max its still more then useable at 800 meters that's not really short ranged.
and as fare as the 4 ac 5 mech being more effective then a ac20 that maybe not to fare off correct but for a load out like that you are limited......

1. your going to have a XL engine thus leaving you easy to kill
2. your guna need lots of ammo which isn't easy to fit in with 4 AC5's
3. your slow and can be a easy target

seen a 4 ac jager yesterday he moved at 43 kph top speed



this i would say he is right about how ever lasers should be buffed instead of nerfing ballistics. possibly even removing ghostheat would be a good idea. at least lift the LL heat penalty limit to 3 even better 4.



this once again leaves me thinking that he is running around in the middle of the paddock getting owned like new players do.LRM's are possibly in the best place for balance that they have ever been. if your dumb enough to stand out in the open they will kill you. if you cant lose lock from missiles being fired from 600-800 meters away you need to learn how to use cover better or kill the light that is spotting.



AC20 have a range of 270 with a max 810 range. at 780 meters they are likely to hit you for 2 or 3 points of damage so sorry they are not really a sniper weapon!

Actually I think I have more background knowledge of the game than you think. Therefor YES I can have an oppinion. Only because you think you are a SHOOTER PRO doesn't mean you have any clue of TRUE BATTLETECH

The reason I didn't mention the gauss is because of 234463 other Gauss Threads (that the gauss aim time is a joke we don't need to discuss )

Due to the firing duration of the AC5 , I get 2 or 3 hits with the AC20 in that time the AC5s perforated my mech. And as in all Mechwarrior Games the mechs have double armor in their locations even a Jagermech can survive 2 -3 hits (can NOT will) That imho is more than enough pros to the cons.

LRMs : NO i don't stand on the open field, most of the time i hide behind buildings and the LRMs still get me or even better , crimson straid , the tunnel or the parking area : The missiles can't hit me but they drain my AMS , and when I get out there or an SRM mechs closes in I don't have any AMS ammo

akpavker, on 25 November 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

the 3 points are very valid AC's are more powerful then lasers but the nerf crying has to stop. a good percentage of nerf posts come from new players. if any thing UP weapons need buffing not OP weapon being nerfed.

It would help if they use DOUBLE HEAT SINKS the way they are meant ^to be and not how they think they should be. Still Mechwarrior is based on one of the oldest TTs there is
^^

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 November 2013 - 05:01 AM, said:

You mean like that I spent $260 in one weekend on my 4 Accounts back in March? Is that kinda what you were eluding to Beer?

No harm Meant AK. I did this to point out of how silly it is to form an opinion on worth by how much money one spends, posts one has, or Time in game one logs!!!!!!!!!!

Fixed that for ya lol

Road was just pointing out to the gentleman earlier that it's silly to dismiss someone's opinion because they're "new" and pointed out how ridiculous it would be for him to dismiss his opinion because he doesn't have any badges so he must be a free player

[Cyberiad]

warp103, on 25 November 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

To me I am sick. Sick of the call to nerf this and nerf that. This is why we have {Scrap} like ghost heat. I do not care if the guy is boating 4ppc, 4 ac5, 5-6 ac2. I kill them all the same. Me with my 2LL and 2 lbx10. I have a 2.0 KTD. I sorry if this comes off wrong but i would not care if they the one trick pony 6ppc. This game has been nerfed in to the dirt. The favor of the moment is dakka dakka, Why because nerf to ppc. Before it was ppc why because lrms were nerfed. Before that it was Lrms why because srm were nerfed . Sense a pattern. It is simple each weapon have a counter build but the cry babys wined now it dakka dakka turn. Soon we will be throwing rocks. It a shame that i only use one mech know because the game is so vanilla that it does not matter the mech most builds are the same. Mack was right this game is turning in to .....Sh ite
first 3 min you will get the picture


or my pug life video. {not even a good pilot}

This needs to be stated more. Yes, the game needs to be gradually balanced, but the balance seems to be only going one way, the way of nerfing: first LRMs, then all energy weapons, then gauss rifle and probably more nerfs in the future. My theory is that PGI wants games to last longer by making weapons bad, thus reducing cbill earnings per time spent even more to encourage people to buy MC. They already did it with the cbill nerf which they excused by saying it was an adjustment for 12 v 12 matches, however 12 v 12 matches does not increase your cbill earnings per time spent, it decreases it since now matches last longer. Everything has a business angle to it, and PGI is a business, they are here to make money, not to make a fun game.

Edited by SiliconLife, 26 November 2013 - 06:57 AM.

[DaZur]

SiliconLife, on 26 November 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

This needs to be stated more. Yes, the game needs to be gradually balanced, but the balance seems to be only going one way, the way of nerfing: first LRMs, then all energy weapons, then gauss rifle and probably more nerfs in the future. My theory is that PGI wants games to last longer by making weapons bad, thus reducing cbill earnings per time spent even more to encourage people to buy MC. They already did it with the cbill nerf which they excused by saying it was an adjustment for 12 v 12 matches, however 12 v 12 matches does not increase your cbill earnings per time spent, it decreases it since now matches last longer. Everything has a business angle to it, and PGI is a business, they are here to make money, not to make a fun game.

No offense... But I don't have enough heavy-duty tinfoil to craft the hat necessary to buy into that theory.

[Farix]

I'll say the exact same thing that I've said in every other topic about general weapons balance. Balanced is a matter of opinion. Each person has their own opinion of what balance should be and they are all different from one another. But the opinions that matter are those of PGI's balance team.

Personally, I think most things are fairly well balanced. DHS could use a buff from 1.4 to 1.6, which would benefit most energy weapons and the AC/2, but not the other ballistics. If you want to compensate, you could increase the AC/2's recycle rate to 0.6 (giving a DPS equivalent to the AC/5) or 0.7 (which makes the AC/2 less efficient to the AC/5, but you have the ability to carry more ammo/armor/equipment/etc.).