109 replies to this topic

[Odanan]

Hyphon, on 25 November 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Clans = Phew... I know the concept from Japanese mid-age culture (Warriors leading civilians), but I'm not sure about the original concept.

Clans = Fascists, Militarists, warrior tribes.

[Rogue Jedi]

RichAC, on 25 November 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

You know Mother Africa, where All life started, the center of maps, and in reality bigger then North America and Europe Australia asia and then some combined!

Sorry, I saw some factual problems with that paragraph, and felt the need to point them out.

Humans may have evolved in Africa, but we cannot be sure of that (especially as evolution is still just a theory), however all life most certainly did not begin on Africa, point of fact if we accept the theory of evolution, it suggests life began in water, and continental drift combined with the fossil record tells us life existed long before Africa was formed.

Asia alone has more surface area than Africa so I am unsure what was being said with regards to Africa being "bigger then North America and Europe Australia asia and then some combined".

[Scromboid]

OP is trolling and completely racist.

These books were written in the 80s' by various authors who have their own frames of reference and view on the world. This was before the internet (imagine) and before the widespread knowledge/instant media we have today. There is no intentional secret agenda to ignore other races in battletech, not that you really care anyways. All you want to know is where the 'blacks' are at, as you say. I would be shocked if you weren't a 12 y/o white punk in upper middle class suburbia.

Really, what does it matter how someone describes a particular person in a book and how they 'meant' that person's race to be? What is your real point behind all of this? If it was to find a faction you 'belong' in, you are going about it the wrong way. You look at the ideological makeup of the faction, then the heros/leaders and possibly the battlemechs. Focusing on the skin color of anyone is racist by definition. I believe other folks in this thread have given ample information on the various factions including all of the above data and more, yet you still focus on the skin color and eye slant of photos.

I really hope you are just trolling. I know you are racist.

The sooner you learn that, the better our entire world will be.

[The Basilisk]

I find this topic is somewhat awkward.
My first impulse to answer is: "Who cares ?" (besides the obvious answer: "The posts opener")
My second impulse is to say: "This topic should be closed because of its political content"
Then I saw some complains about the internet beeing racistic and mother africa the source of all life....
Ok someone asking deliberately to what faction Africans do BELONG to and on the other hand the same dude is complaining about racism.......Am I the only one who found this weird ?

Or maybe its just me. I'm on an german univerity of applied sciences wich is proud to have students from more than 180 countries in the world, this moment on my bed sleeps a beautyful half japanese girl and the dude I'm working with on a projekt is from cameroon in africa.
And you know what? Until this moment I didn't waste one thought about the fact those wonderfull people aren't even born on this continent.

The answer is: "All factions of the inner sphere are made up by humans."

Except the clans who are based on humans geneticaly ingeneered super warriors and have subdued a working class caste wich is a mix of rejected augments and humans.
So Clans are no racists in the classical sense but radical human reformers/eugenics with faschistoid political systems.

[Ransack]

RichAC, on 25 November 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

I know there is not many black people that play pc games, and there is alot of racism and prejudices online that would probably turn off many if they did, but do any play?

Me. I'm Black

[Kotzi]

Clans are descendants of "unhappy" Star League Military. Their Caste System and Cloning is born out of necessity. Lack of ressources made them what they are now. So there is no dominant race either. It have never been intended anyway and any one who has to think about that should consider his attitude again.

EDIT: Thats just a supershort summary. So it might sound a bit too simple.

Edited by Kotzi, 26 November 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[Hopper Morrison]

Ransack, on 26 November 2013 - 05:11 AM, said:

Me. I'm Black

Yeah, Me too. Don't know where OP got off saying very few blacks played PC games. fact of the matter is I never had a game console until I got a Wii for my kids.
scratch that I did have a generic pong console that I got at a yard sale in the 80's. I believe I tried to Kelso it.

Anyway this whole thread is irritating. not because the subject was brought up but because the "Where do I fit in as a ..." thing needs to go away. just do what you like.

[SpiralFace]

Odanan, on 26 November 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

[/size]
Afro Samurai? It's you?

No He's the poster child for why I feel all those complaining about early fiction in the BT universe don't provide strong black characters are invalid.

His name is Minobu Tetsuhara, He is Kuritan of African decent. He is not some "outsider" in his society, he is pretty much Kuritan through and through. While his superiors will sometimes balk that he isn't asian, this hasn't held him back. He graduated from the most prestigious academy in the Combine, he rose to a position of great importance in the book, was married to an asian woman and had childeren. He wasn't "shoe horned" into any stereotypical African American trappings.

He simply was a Kuritan that was Black. He was completely integrated into its society, and even when the world came crashing down on him, he refused to give up his Kuritan culture, even at the very end.

As to Myndo Waterly, I remember her being described as having blonde hair, but I also remember her being described as being "dark skinned" as well. I would have to read the books again to get a reference point, but I always saw her character as being black.

[Macbrea]

The setting was written early 1980s. So, it won't be politically correct to start with. I would assume part of the reason it doesn't explore African culture is that the authors needed to use a very small stereotypes and approaching that one would have even been bad at that point. I really wish they would have explained a lot of the race issues in a similar fashion as heavy gear. The worlds population exceeded the area it could handle before going to outer space. As a result, inter-racial breeding resulted in more of a muddled inner city mix for the human population.

I have a feeling that is what they are trying to represent with those pictures that show the Africans with Asian slant to their eyes. Unless you're from one of the upper class families that live by selective breeding, it's very likely your family is inner city mixed.

[SpiralFace]

Macbrea, on 26 November 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

The setting was written early 1980s. So, it won't be politically correct to start with. I would assume part of the reason it doesn't explore African culture is that the authors needed to use a very small stereotypes and approaching that one would have even been bad at that point. I really wish they would have explained a lot of the race issues in a similar fashion as heavy gear. The worlds population exceeded the area it could handle before going to outer space. As a result, inter-racial breeding resulted in more of a muddled inner city mix for the human population.

I have a feeling that is what they are trying to represent with those pictures that show the Africans with Asian slant to their eyes. Unless you're from one of the upper class families that live by selective breeding, it's very likely your family is inner city mixed.

Warrior trilogy opens with how racist the BT universe can be. Justin Allard is reprimanding one of his subordinates and he spits it back in his face because he's a "capellan **********." (And thats putting it nicely.)

Racisim is alive and well in the BT universe, the fiction has always enforced this. But most of it is no longer directed at the color of your skin, but the factional culture you grew up in.

I don't understand why people are so hung up that they have to have more straight "African" culture translate to the characters. I imagine its the same reason there isn't much "American Culture" that carries over to the fiction. For the most part, people have transcended the culture they fostered on earth.

Its not like people in Japan today hold Bushido in such high regard and act like Kuritan's, or the Commonwelth having an abundance of German culture present in their entire state.

Only a few "traditionalists" like the Northwind highlanders really carry over their Earth traditions into the Inner Sphere. And even in the Highlander's case, its more about the people who originally colonized "Northwind" more then paying homage to Earth.

[Scromboid]

SpiralFace, on 26 November 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

Warrior trilogy opens with how racist the BT universe can be. Justin Allard is reprimanding one of his subordinates and he spits it back in his face because he's a "capellan **********." (And thats putting it nicely.)

Racisim is alive and well in the BT universe, the fiction has always enforced this. But most of it is no longer directed at the color of your skin, but the factional culture you grew up in.

I don't understand why people are so hung up that they have to have more straight "African" culture translate to the characters. I imagine its the same reason there isn't much "American Culture" that carries over to the fiction. For the most part, people have transcended the culture they fostered on earth.

Its not like people in Japan today hold Bushido in such high regard and act like Kuritan's, or the Commonwelth having an abundance of German culture present in their entire state.

Only a few "traditionalists" like the Northwind highlanders really carry over their Earth traditions into the Inner Sphere. And even in the Highlander's case, its more about the people who originally colonized "Northwind" more then paying homage to Earth.

This is actually a pretty solid representation of my own personal beliefs that most actual 'racism' is 'culturalism'. People can see what other folks looks like, and that scares them mostly because of unknowns... that is racist... judging someone by skin.

Now, the other side of the coin is when you are nervous about folks, or dislike folks, based on their culture. I'm sick and a little out of today, so forgive me if I explain this a little off. I can say that I probably would not get along with someone based not on the fact that they are a different color, but based on the fact that, say, their culture is one of oppression and degradation of women. That is not a racist statement, but an ideological statement based on how folks ~act~, not how they ~look~.

That's in a nutshell, I suppose.

Again, I state that the mere fact the OP is 'looking for blacks' makes me thinks he is a racist.

[James Montana]

Scromboid, on 26 November 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Again, I state that the mere fact the OP is 'looking for blacks' makes me thinks he is a racist.

I agree, the original poster is obviously a person who is merely asking questions to make a fallacious point. I seriously doubt if he was making an attempt to engage in any substantive dialog. The person's perception appears to be skewed and influenced by a perceived racial slight, and therefore subject to a stark cognitive distortion.

To: Original Poster

Leave your racialism at home. It is the 21st century. Many of us are trying to leave people like you (those that look through the lens of race, regardless of skin color) behind.

[Macbrea]

No, it's an honest question. What happened to the African Nations? The fact of the matter is as human kind advances a limited number of space going countries will be the first into space. If you were to look at the world today, here is what you would have:

United States: Space Capable but it's space agency is crumbling under the bureaucracy of it's government, corporations are taking over this field from the government.
European Union: Space Capable and concentrating on Satellites as they are profitable.
Russian/Ukrainian: Space Capable based off using older tested rockets.
China: Space Capable with an interest in making it to the moon and further space exploration.
India: Rocket Technology capable to send rockets into orbit. Currently, only using it for Satellite deployment.
Japan: Space Capable and concentrating on Satellite as they are required for everyday business.

So, if you were to advance those Countries into space race to populate further planets and claim territory. An item that would occur soon after one of them sent a deep space mission out. The rest of them would be required to follow suit. This would leave the other countries to survive on earth, while the space going countries grabbed up nearby planets.

Edited by Macbrea, 26 November 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Strum Wealh, on 25 November 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

My take on a short generalization of each faction:

• Federated Suns/House Davion: essentially the British Empire, with some additional French and American overtones
  
• Lyran Commonwealth/House Steiner: essentially the Holy Roman Empire, with heavy German overtones
  
• Draconis Combine/House Kurita: essentially early Showa Era (roundabout WWI/WWII) Japan, with a smattering of other cultures (mainly Arabic) represented
  
• Capellan Confederation/House Liao: essentially Qing Dynasty Era China, with a smattering of other cultures (mainly Russian and Scottish) represented
  
• Free Worlds League/House Marik: essentially the Ottoman Empire, with some Indian (as in "from India" rather than "Native American") and American overtones
  
• Free Rasalhague Republic: essentially the Swedish Empire, with some American overtones
  
• The Clans (to be made available eventually) collectively represent the "great conquering hordes" and/or the "romanticized noble savages" of the past (e.g. the Mongols under Genghis Khan, the Macedonians under Alexander III, the Romans during the expansion of the Roman Empire, and so on), while each Clan individually represents a separate society - the Ghost Bears are generally thought to be Scandinavian (like the FRR, with whom they later merged) and modeled in the spirit of the (romanticized) Vikings, the Smoke Jaguars are thought to represent (stereotypes of) the warrior tribes of Africa's past (most notably the Zulu Kingdom), the Nova Cats are thought to have been modeled on (stereotypes of) Native American societies (with the Wanapum, Cheyenne, and/or Sioux likely serving as primary inspirations), and so on.

Additionally, ComStar (along with the Word of Blake) represents the pop-culture rendition of the Illuminati, while the St. Ives Compact takes the role of "Space Taiwan".



The Davion family themselves are actually of French heritage (said to be a region in southwest France called Gascony), but the Federated Suns as a nation seems to be based on an Anglo-American model - in many ways, it is a lot like a mish-mash of the old British Empire, the current Commonwealth of Nations, and the modern United States.

IMO, it is the Federated Commonwealth (the union of the FedSuns and the Lyran Commonwealth ) that would be more like the European Union.

The Free Worlds League government, despite its claims of being a "democracy" (where the term is often used - incorrectly - to imply that the FWL is a republic), is really more a constitutional monarchy or a federal monarchy in terms of actual implementation (with the Captain-General serving as the "monarch").

hate to quote all your post, but I do disagree with your opinions of Federated Sun and Lyran Comonwealth

the only kinda German thing about the Lc is that the name Steiner, which is also a name with English roots as well, Steiner Stainer Dyer all names from middle english the three area are all from the United Kingdom (for now) Tamar (river in West of England) Skye (Islands off West Scotland) Donegal (Ireland)

plus comonwealth is kind of another big suggestive push, also if you loook at the slow steady sometimes incompatant /snobbish way the LC is run it screams american opinion of Britain and therefore europe


davion is rapier fast in its combat, it has all culture within its boundaires its the most powerful millitary force in the IC it stomps on weaker nations, capenlan confederation for what it considers honourable idea's

Its no doubt a poorly disguisted America

Edited by Cathy, 26 November 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Odanan]

The Basilisk, on 26 November 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

Or maybe its just me. I'm on an german univerity of applied sciences wich is proud to have students from more than 180 countries in the world, this moment on my bed sleeps a beautyful half japanese girl and the dude I'm working with on a projekt is from cameroon in africa.
And you know what? Until this moment I didn't waste one thought about the fact those wonderfull people aren't even born on this continent.

Kudos for your half Japanese girl.

But seriously, this discussion about racism is a discussion about racial tension in USA. And I believe we can talk about that like adults, without the mods' cavalry.

I'm from Brazil, married with a 1/2 black, 1/4 white, 1/4 native american woman. Things are very different here, there are basically 2 races: rich and poor.

Edited by Odanan, 26 November 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Ransack]

Scromboid, on 26 November 2013 - 06:02 AM, said:

Again, I state that the mere fact the OP is 'looking for blacks' makes me thinks he is a racist.

I am not going to speak for RichAC, and I have not asked him, nor did I read where he states his race. Perhaps it could be that He is black and is looking for references? I know I did. Personally, I stopped worrying about race/nationality in the BT universe a long time ago.

[Macbrea]

It really depends where you live in the United States on how much Racism is involved. Generally, speaking Racism in the United States is a result of Over-populated Metropolitan Cities or Previous cultural subjugation. Large cities become over-crowded and groups of different ethnic backgrounds get in disputes over territory.

In the case, of previous subjugation there is an on-going racial animosity for actions of our forefathers. I will use my home town as an example: The population breakdown is as follows: White 7989, African American 139, Native American 261, Asian 44, Other 26. Generally speaking most people I had met growing up were not prejudice to African Americans. They were a bit different but not that big of deal. The only people that were prejudice versus Asians were Vietnam Veterans, who had a war affecting mental prejudices. The issue comes in that a lot of people in that area were prejudiced against Native Americans. This is because of the fact there are reservations in the area. Reservations were set up during a time of racial subjugation. Most Native Americans were brought up being treated as different culturally then those around them.

Later in my life, I moved down to the Southeast US. I see a similar mindset down here that I saw up in the Northwest. It just is with a different race.

In case, anyone is wondering that town I was from is in Northern Minnesota. Most of the population of that area is from Scandinavian and Ireland.

[Diego Angelus]

Timuroslav, on 25 November 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Marik is supposed to be like EX America, If you look at their languages they're from all around the globe, and in very tiny Battletech Extracts you see and Bits of Africa, migrating into the Marik region of Space.
So Effectively, if you're African you can kinda choose where you go. It also states that in the lore Marik is supposed to be the most diverse of the houses hence why if they weren't in a Civil war they would have the highest living standards and freedoms of the whole inner sphere. But, typical Marik'a problems they can't stop hating themselves.

Battletech Lore is supposed to be super complicated it wouldn't surprise me to hear of African themed colonies in the Lyran Commonwealth.

this is supposed Post-Earth: (Earth still exists but no one knows what the countries Japan and Egypt are.)
Not to mention gene diversity is supposed to be like beyond, ethnicity.

Also side note: Africa is known to be really diverse in terms of gene pool and culture, and to reflect that peoples from Africa migrated to where ever they wanted really.

I would actually go far as to say that Draconis Combine, has elements of African, Korean, and the Middle Eastern Countries.
Liao: Also has a ton of Koreans
I would say Davion is actually a lot more like the European Union than like America.
Marik seems to be more like America but then again Americans don't identify with an American ethnicity. God knows I don't
Marik= "American" Greek, Indian, Africa.

I see marik murika

[Nakamura Takeshi]

There are a lot of good points made in this thread and am glad it didn't go down the gutter. Whether the OP is a troll or not, it did bring out some helpful information to ponder. I never thought of the Houses as a race (which is unfairly restrictive) but more like an ideal, you join the House you want for whatever reason. Some people have read the books and will say you should act this way or that way, but I never thought race should be an automatic "in" or "out".

I only ask people keep an open mind in the forums and on the battlefield and respect one another.

[AdamBaines]

You know, one of the best things I like about this game is that, in the end, I don't care, and am allowed to not care about the race ethnicity, social-economic background or religion of the people Im playing with. I can play with people and talk to people.

The People, not the classification of people. There are so many wonderful awesome people from so many different backgrounds here. If you can kill a mech without getting yourself killed, I want you on my team. Even then, jump aboard and lets have some fun.