376 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 27 November 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

And I believe I read where we will be buying Union class Drop-ships. So if the Contracts weight limit was to exceed that of what the one Union DS you own can haul, support gear aside, then a Team (say on a multi-planet based Contract run) where getting reserves just ain't happening will have to own/buy more Unions to carry the extras.

Logistics ftw.

A Union Class DropShip can carry 12 Mechs ranging from 20 to 100 tons. So I can bring from 240-1,200 tons on a Union.

Roadbeer, on 27 November 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

No... as much as some Lorewhores want it, they're not going to take away all your mechs to make them house specific.
Though there may be pricing changes in regards to house production (Having to buy "black market" rather than factory direct)

I understand this, We would need at least 3 TROs full of Mechs to be able to divide up the Mechs appropriately. But a Lyran can dream right?

[aniviron]

Fut, on 27 November 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

I really don't get this attitude. Were you an only child growing up or something? You seem incapable of taking turns.
Tonnage limits doesn't necessarily mean that you'll never get a chance to play the (apparently) one and only Mech you love. It might mean that you don't get to play it in every single drop though. It'll all come down to figuring out the Mechs with your entire team.

Examples:
- You loves you an Atlas, and play nothing else. You launch into a game and see that the other players have selected lights/mediums/heavies and there's still 200 tonnes left to play around with. You select your Atlas, and the remaining players have 100 tonnes to divide up for Mech selection.

- You're still uberloving on your Atlas. you launch into a game and see that you're the last one in the lobby, everybody has selected their Mechs and you're down to 90 tonnes that you can use. Damn, looks like you'll either have to convince somebody to change their Mech and free up some tonnage for your Atlas, or you might just have to <gasp> select a different Mech for this drop.

Tonnage limits shouldn't turn anybody off of this game, not unless their incredibly selfish at least.
Having said that though, I don't think that Tonnage Limits alone are going to be enough to balance out the popularity of the different Mech sizes. As other's have already said, PGI still has to improve the whole Role Warfare thing, but this is a small step in the right direction.

Lastly, I'm really hoping that PGI makes this Tonnage Limits a dynamic part of the game. Changing up the limits for different planets, different areas on those planets, a bit of randomization...etc...etc.

I'm just really curious what happens in this situation if, say, a new player spent his/her cadet bonus on two atlases, and that's all they have. Do they just not get to play because they don't have any mechs light enough?

[NRP]

@Fut
So . . . you agree it's going to limit player choice, correct?

I hope PGI treads very carefully here.

[Roadbeer]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

I understand this, We would need at least 3 TROs full of Mechs to be able to divide up the Mechs appropriately. But a Lyran can dream right?

Fair enough,

But you have to be careful man, in a discussion such as this, the off hand comment fuels 5 pages of nerdrage.
Then is later referenced in 10 other threads titled "You won't take my purple D-DC from me /ragequit" and my fingers start to bleed typing [Citation needed].

[ssm]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Why would I be?

On TT A house Kurita unit was equipped with Units specific to The Dragon and ha a few Star League Era Mechs for flavor. Only WoB and the Dragon had Kentaros at this time

Atlas-K Are a Kurita only build
Atlas-D-DC is a Steiner Only build

Jagers were nearly a Davion only Mech

Catapults were mostly a Kurita and Liao Mech But some survived from the star league era in other houses.

So yes, I am serious as a heart attack.

1. I have at least one variant of almost every chasiss available. So has a lot of people. Sadly, it's too late for faction specific mechs.

2. We need at least some semblance of balance between factions, and as Steiner has best access to heavy/assault mechs, trying to translate that to actual game would kill CW outright - because this game is about stompy robots duking it out, and by design assaults and heavies are best at this.

Also, can we agree that trying to balance it by meta-game economy (given tens of millions C-bills a lot of us is sitting on) is pointless?

(And so would be, in the long run, "role specific rewards"?)

3. Lore- and faction- wise, Steiner access to better equipment was balanced by the ineptitude of social-based command structure. How do you think this could be translated into FPS multiplayer game?

Forcing them to play drunk on champagne?

Edited by ssm, 27 November 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[WarHippy]

ssm, on 27 November 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Well, this game is about sluging out. You can't outslug something that by design has more guns, armor, and only a slightly worse mobility. Simply - playing field is wrong now (as Assaults are effectively easymode), so it has to be changed. And weigh limits are step in right direction.

Actually, with the two current game modes this game is about completing objectives not just about slugging it out. Piloting a mech and taking advantage of its strengths is also an important skill to learn so that you can win fights regardless of weight.

ssm, on 27 November 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Only thing that could possibly properly balance Assaults/Heavies against mediums is severely nerfing their mobility. And I mean severely, not "-10% torso twist range" but "negate most of the pilot skill bonuses"

It isn't the only way, but it certainly is the easy way of doing it. Unique pilot skill trees for each chassis that give bonuses to what that chassis role are would be good way to make the differences more pronounced, and I'm sure there are plenty fo other ideas out there to do this.

[Corvus Antaka]

Victor Morson, on 27 November 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

snip

Im not here to debate this with you. We each have our own opinion. My stats in the hunchback bear out the quality of the mech, I can't help it if some people are unable to do well in certain mechs. The hunchback does have significant advantages over a shadowhawk, and it's not my problem you can't make proper use of them.

[TercieI]

So what exactly did the Tweet say? I deleted my Twitter account a while back.

[Joseph Mallan]

ssm, on 27 November 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

1. I have at least one variant of every chasiss available. So has a lot of people. Sadly, it's too late for faction specific mechs.

2. We need at least some semblance of balance between factions, and as Steiner has best access to heavy/assault mechs, trying to translate that to actual game would kill CW outright - because this game is about stompy robots duking it out, and by design assaults and heavies are best at this.

Also, can we agree that trying to balance it by meta-game economy (given tens of millions C-bills a lot of us is sitting on) is pointless?

(So would be, in the long run, "role specific rewards")

Lore- and faction- wise, Steiner access to better equipment was balanced by the ineptitude of social-based command structure. How do you think this could be translated into FPS multiplayer game?

Forcing them to play drunk on champagne?

Hardly true. As a Lyran, I have an Atlas-D(the Star League basic), An Atlas-D-DC (Lyran) a Victor-9S (Lyran), and a Jenner Sara... (Cause I have a heart).

My Kuritan Alt uses a Catapult-K and a Shadowhawk-2K (with SRMs instead of LRM5)

My Davion has a Jager and a Stalker-7D... or at least as close to one as I can build.

Fairly House Specific.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 November 2013 - 09:48 AM.

[TercieI]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Hardly true. As a Lyran, I have an Atlas-D(the Star League basic), An Atlas-D-DC (Lyran) a Victor-9S (Lyran), and a Jenner Sara... (Cause I have a heart).

My Kuritan Alt uses a Catapult-K and a Shadowhawk-2K (with SMs instead of LRM5)

My Davion has a Jager and a Stalker-7D... or at least as close to one as I can build.

Fairly House Specific.

I'd be willing to bet that you roleplay it a lot more than most folks.

I'm at the other extreme (and I realize that I am an extreme, I think most folks fall somewhere between us): I neither know nor care which mechs go with which houses and will only choose faction loyalty based on the choices of friends and the possible benefits, if at all. I'm here for the c-bills.

Edited by Terciel1976, 27 November 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Stunner]

I think it's funny that the Atlas pilots are saying "I want to play what I want to play" which is fine and then some are stating that we should play role warefare which hey I like but then there are those that cry when the lights go base cap and scream "If you want to play base cap go play conquest!!" Well actually they are playing their role. They can't fight a lance full of atlases yet a lance of lights could easily take down an Atlas however since the enemy is full of Heavies and Assaults they have to run to base and take advantage of their speed.

So if you don't want weight balance then stop crying when the lights cap the base and you're in a slow Atlas. Not everyone wants to play brawlwarrior online.

ssm, on 27 November 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

1. I have at least one variant of almost every chasiss available. So has a lot of people. Sadly, it's too late for faction specific mechs.

2. We need at least some semblance of balance between factions, and as Steiner has best access to heavy/assault mechs, trying to translate that to actual game would kill CW outright - because this game is about stompy robots duking it out, and by design assaults and heavies are best at this.

Also, can we agree that trying to balance it by meta-game economy (given tens of millions C-bills a lot of us is sitting on) is pointless?

(And so would be, in the long run, "role specific rewards"?)

3. Lore- and faction- wise, Steiner access to better equipment was balanced by the ineptitude of social-based command structure. How do you think this could be translated into FPS multiplayer game?

Forcing them to play drunk on champagne?

We Steiners are forcing ourselves to play drunk online on Fridays

[Almond Brown]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

A Union Class DropShip can carry 12 Mechs ranging from 20 to 100 tons. So I can bring from 240-1,200 tons on a Union.

other stuff

"Roger that sir. 1200 tons for a 4 Planet skirmish run to test the defenses of the enemies left flank. Yes sir, we can do that!"

"Leave a garrison on each planet found to be lightly or not defended? Well sir, we only have 1200 tons aboard ship, sir!"

Edited by Almond Brown, 27 November 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[WarHippy]

Fut, on 27 November 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

- You're still uberloving on your Atlas. you launch into a game and see that you're the last one in the lobby, everybody has selected their Mechs and you're down to 90 tonnes that you can use. Damn, looks like you'll either have to convince somebody to change their Mech and free up some tonnage for your Atlas, or you might just have to <gasp> select a different Mech for this drop.

If people want to play in an Atlas then that is what they want to play in. Forcing them to play something they don't want to play does not make for an enjoyable gaming experience. People have different desires and requirements for what they find to be fun because people are <gasp> different.

Fut, on 27 November 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Tonnage limits shouldn't turn anybody off of this game, not unless their incredibly selfish at least.
Having said that though, I don't think that Tonnage Limits alone are going to be enough to balance out the popularity of the different Mech sizes. As other's have already said, PGI still has to improve the whole Role Warfare thing, but this is a small step in the right direction.

Yeah, I mean all those evil ******** that want people to play what they want are the selfish ones not those happy go lucky gents that want everyone to play their way because their way is the best way.
What nonsense.

[Joseph Mallan]

Terciel1976, on 27 November 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

I'd be willing to bet that you roleplay it a lot more than most folks.

I'm at the other extreme (and I realize that I am an extreme, I think most folks fall somewhere between us): I neither know nor care which mechs go with which houses and will only choose faction loyalty based on the choices of friends and the possible benefits, if at all. I'm here for the c-bills.

I am waiting (Impatiently) for the Battlemaster to be C-bill friendly. Cause I am playing this game to fulfill Joe's Battlecorps background. And I started out in a Battlemaster-1G in 1986!

Stunner, on 27 November 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

We Steiners are forcing ourselves to play drunk online on Fridays

You show great restraint to keep it to only Fridays

Almond Brown, on 27 November 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

"Roger that sir. 1200 tons for a 4 Planet skirmish run to test the defenses of the enemies left flank. Yes sir, we can do that!"

"Leave a garrison on each planet found to be lightly or not defended? Well sir, we only have 1200 tons aboard ship, sir!"

Thankfully, in the Canon a Lance of Mechs can defend a whole Planet!!! (always thought that was nucking Futs!)

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 November 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[TercieI]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

I am waiting (Impatiently) for the Battlemaster to be C-bill friendly. Cause I am playing his game to fulfill Joe's Battlecorps background. And I started out in a Battlemaster-1G in 1986!

I love that. Just to be clear, I think your approach is very cool and I am not putting it down in any way. (It's just not mine).

[Joseph Mallan]

Terciel1976, on 27 November 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

I love that. Just to be clear, I think your approach is very cool and I am not putting it down in any way. (It's just not mine).

Its cool. I have 30 years playing the TT game, and I was even a demo rep for FanPro, so I have a particular view of what forces should look like. As long as we are honorless Mercs we can get away with sitting in whatever, I just hope House units are more... structured.

[Ngamok]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I am waiting (Impatiently) for the Battlemaster to be C-bill friendly. Cause I am playing this game to fulfill Joe's Battlecorps background. And I started out in a Battlemaster-1G in 1986!

You show great restraint to keep it to only Fridays


Thankfully, in the Canon a Lance of Mechs can defend a whole Planet!!! (always thought that was nucking Futs!)

Mastered all my Battlemasters

If I didn't have to work, I'd drink every night, but Fridays is good enough with some Mondays thrown in for good football games.

They can defend an entire planet but I'd want to go Warhamemr 40K at that point on it.

[OznerpaG]

aniviron, on 27 November 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

I'm just really curious what happens in this situation if, say, a new player spent his/her cadet bonus on two atlases, and that's all they have. Do they just not get to play because they don't have any mechs light enough?

or a situation like me, who's been playing the game for HOURS every single day for over 6 months and i only own 3 victors and a max unlocked jenner since those are the only mechs i see worth owning in the game. my choice, yes, but i'm not wasting cash or MC on mechs i don't see ever having a use for, and stopping me from playing the mechs i want to play will only force and man-handle me out of playing a game i LOVE.

you can own 1000 mechs, but what the game needs is people PLAYING the game regardless if they own 1 mech or 1000 and forcing people to not play the game because they don't want to pilot GARBAGE destroys a game you want to GROW around you

[Almond Brown]

WarHippy, on 27 November 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

If people want to play in an Atlas then that is what they want to play in. Forcing them to play something they don't want to play does not make for an enjoyable gaming experience. People have different desires and requirements for what they find to be fun because people are <gasp> different.
Yeah, I mean all those evil ******** that want people to play what they want are the selfish ones not those happy go lucky gents that want everyone to play their way because their way is the best way.
What nonsense.

You keep beating everyone with the same "what I want" stuff. Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, MWO is and will be even more so with the advent of CW, a TEAM based game. If you wish to participate in the TEAM environment, there may well be some sacrifices that each TEAM member will have to make at certain times to achieve the TEAM goal.

Surely the PUG game play will have Larger team values allowed so all the ASSAULT drivers will be A OK down in the Underhive.

Edited by Almond Brown, 27 November 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[Heffay]

Are the people who are opposed to tonnage limits the same people who complain when someone starts capping their base?

WarHippy, on 27 November 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

If people want to play in an Atlas then that is what they want to play in. Forcing them to play something they don't want to play does not make for an enjoyable gaming experience. People have different desires and requirements for what they find to be fun because people are <gasp> different.

Nobody is forcing you to not drop in your Atlas.